My new boat nightmare.....Resolved!

[Sandbank]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Don't waste anymore time, hire an attorney.

I second this.Sorry not around Can laws but as an Aussie you have similar laws to us in relation to Consumer Protection.It comes down to what was represented to you and whether was expressly or implied as new from factory.If they represented was new then does not matter a hoot about their warranty as the warranty exists in law from your protection. Document everything,see a lawyer and serve them an action.That would normally flush most issues out for a out of court settlement. Make sure your pleadings prayers include costs in case it goes to court.

 

[sea wolf]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

After unwrapping my brand new Starcraft Islander 221 I noticed a few "issues" with the paint, and a few gouged rivets. As a former bodyman I can see the starboard side near the transom has been repaired. Overspray, lots of dust and sanding marks. Embarrasing.
So I contact a local (2 hrs away) dealer and send them the pics of the paint and the serial #. They just called me and said this boat has no cosmetic warranty!
I bought a brand new boat with no cosmetic warranty as Starcraft sold these to the dealer this way at a discount.
And I was told nothing.
I am 3000kms from the dealer I bought it from and I wish I could hop in my truck and return this thing. Its new and I've never even run it yet. I have contacted the dealer I bought it from and the salesman who sold it to me is contacting the owners of the dealership. I have no idea what to do. Makes me sick thinking about this.
I'd like to know about what kind of damage this boat suffered. Is it slathered in bondo? What does "cosmetics" imply? Why wasn't I told of this?:facepalm:
Here are a few pics.

Gee, why didn't you have the dealer unwrap the boat & inspect it before you paid for it? Would you buy a car without first looking it over? I'm not coming down on you, but I don't see why anyone would lay down big bucks for a boat without even looking it over, wrapped up or not.

 

[SierraMark]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

ricohman,

Sorry to hear of this problem but here is my .02 for what it's worth.

Starcraft has told you that they sold the boat to the delaer at a "discounted price". Do you know what this discount was? Maybe if you found out that they sold the boat to the dealer for say 20% less than a "good" boat then you tell the dealership that you want a 20% refund on the purchase price.

I would rather have that than have some paint and a graphic shipped to me to do all the work myself for free.

Good luck with this, I hope you get satisfaction and I hope you get to enjoy your boat.

-Mark

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

don't beat yourself up too much; you are trusting but not an idiot. The important point (if you pursue this in court) is that you relied on the dealer and he misled you by concealment. It's not like something you discovered that he was not aware of. That is the key to the liability side of the "case."

The other side is damages. You are not going to get the boat replaced absent a stroke of luck or good graces by Starcraft (unless Canandian law defines "paint" or "cosmetic appearance" as material to the function of a boat). Determine what, short of replacement, would make you whole. Ask for more than that, settle for that. IOW if the dealer said, "I have a great boat but it has this cosmetic problem. How much can I knock off the price to sell it to you? How about I throw in the matching paint and knock off $___?" That's your target. Can you get that from Starcraft and/or the dealer?

Talk to a good lawyer in your area and offer to pay for the consultation ("free" consultations seldom are--ever get a "free" eye exam without a sales pitch for glasses?). One question for him is whether you're better off with a lawyer in the dealer's area--that's my inclination. No point speculating here any more about what might happen. Remember your target.

Not that it's relevant from a legal standpoint, but my wife bought a brand new car, took it back 2 weeks later for routine stuff, and they scraped the side of the car against a steel post, damaging a door and quarter panel, bad. Because I have "professional experience and qualifications" in the legal side of things, and they knew it, we both knew a new car was not an option. So I cut a fair deal involving repair and a "lifetime" warranty for the paint (even from fading) and the door's operations, loaner car, etc. We ended up exactly with what I would have "won" in court, less legal fees. No legal advice here; just a suggestion for your strategy. With the "fraudulent concealment" fact that you have I and don't, you have a better hand. You also have a 3000km problem, a bad card in your hand.

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Many good points, but the question of why I didn't ask them to unwrap it is stated above. I've bought plenty of new vehicles and buying my new F350 was simple. I told them to get it ready and I went and drove it home. Truck was 100%.
I would rather settle this out of court for the obvious reason. But if it goes that way I will be asking for my legal costs as well. Using my local bench would mean they would have to travel to me. However, using a court in Ontario may mean less cost and a faster result.
But I am still waiting to hear from the dealer.
What do I want?
I've had some time to think and I believe what I want is reasonable.
I want warranty, and this paint work repaired. If I am going to do it myself I want to be paid accordingly. I've painted enough in my life as to tell you the truth I don't know if I even want to do it. I bought new this time so I could just go out and enjoy myself.
I also want some $ as compensation for this "mistake". How much I haven't thought yet.
If this isn't a mistake and I've been scammed then this changes everything.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Yah, I'm still very interested in what the dealer has to say/offer.

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

No answer today. I have no idea what would take so long when you have an irritated customer. Maybe tomorrow.....
I had a good look at the entire hull today and I also noticed this on the port side about 2 feet forward of the transom. There seem to be rivets missing and some sealant applied, then painted? Maybe they couldn't get the rivets through at this location?

And there is corrosion around many of the rivets.

No idea why a dry boat is losing paint but I have heard about this before with other tinnys.
The missing rivets. Is this a structural thing?

 

[rockyrude]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Is it possible what you are seeing around those rivets isn't corrosion but bad prep work? It is supposed to be new. Possible sign of things to come?

BTW I'm not a tinny guy but, I'm sure even I would not like that seam gap in the first pic

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

ricoh - I'm beginning to think you got a demonstration boat, not a new boat. How many hours on the hourmeter if it has one? Does the engine have a computer? If it does I would drag it to a Merc dealer and and ask (pay) them to pull up the history it that can be done.

EDIT - seeing the patched holes in the above pic and rivet spacing shows me some poor workmanship.

 

[salty87]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

i'd go for canceling the sale completely as opposed to a new boat. they take the boat back and you get your money back. you did not receive what you were apparently told you were getting. there's no need for you to paint a new boat. they have their boat back and can do whatever they want with it.

i'd take this up with corporate. the dealer has had a chance and doesn't give a carp. tell corporate you'd just like to get rid of their boat that was completely mis-represented. they'll probably agree and should lean on the dealer to man up before it gets legal.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Richoman - so sorry to hear about this and I can imagine how heartsick you are.

Home cooking has got some real good advice I think but based on description of what's generally important and what isn't in these cases I'd change my tactic and forget the paint. Focus on those rivets - especially the crushed ones underneath along with the ones you last posted pics of. You don't know those aren't going to loosen up and leak years sooner than they should. That goes right to the boat being fit for extended use and the new and structurally sound condition they represented it to be in when they knew it wasn't.

This isn't damage caused by an innocent accident while you were back for an oil change. In that case i doubt anyone would or could reasonably ask for a replacement boat. Im with oops in that regard because this stinks of outright deception. It's going to take a whole lot more to make you ?whole? to use hc's term.

If they haven't sold all their stock tell them you want a new boat along with the gas in your truck there and back. Me, even I'd do it on my own dime if it meant getting to exchange the boat but that could be your fallback position. Sure lots of time has gone by since the purchase but if your research into that Canadian statute is accurate re the one year - why not shoot for it? Perhaps I'm being naive but I think this is definitely worth a couple hundred dollars for some legal advice as a start anyway. Maybe add to that a report from a marine surveyor that expresses concern about those areas.

Good luck, man (and if by chance this was a southern Ontario dealer and you need any local groundwork done throughout this process - shoot me a pm. Maybe I can assist in some way)

 

[Chip Chester]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

So you wonder what kind of damage is under that paint, anyway. Corrosion? Patch over collision damage? Or just workmanship like that photographed by the OP? None of that fits with "new boat" regardless of paint job. Did it get hit with a forklift? Dropped off the transport trailer? And was it dealer repair, or factory?

I don't think this is really a "warranty" issue, as the damage existed before the period of use began. This is a delivery condition/concealment matter. A not-new-condition boat being foisted off as one that is new... whose condition was implied to be that of the one on the showroom floor.

My dad bought a new postwar Ford coupe that eventually had all kinds of problems... electrical, wheel alignment, body panel alignment, water leaks, glass mis-fitting... you name it. Turns out it had actually fallen off the assembly line. Once that was determined, the dealer took matters up with Ford and had him a new car pronto.

Chip

 

[oops!]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

If this isn't a mistake and I've been scammed then this changes everything.

Oh yah, that dealer knew it was discounted. And they sure as heck knew they were selling you a "new" rig vs. a "cosmetic blem" rig!

i believe it is covered under the criminal code....not civil. i owned a store....and i had to be very careful how i presented a product to a person.

once you told the dealership of the problem......they would have looked up the paper work.....and the price they paid for the unit, and the shipment it came in.

they know they got seconds in an order.
once the compaint came in, they would have realized it was a mistake (if it was) and offered a trade for a new boat. shipping could be arranged.

if it was intentional, you will get the run around.

if you get the runaround, that means they knew the boat was purchased as a second, and sold as regular stock. that ,....is criminal.

if you work in a crime unit.....look it up in the criminal code.....its there !

criminal, as you know....is a different matter......but it is up to you to make the complaint in such a manner that the arresting (or investigating) officer knows that it was intentional.
you can do that by providing proof of starcrafts statement of discount to the dealer.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Oh man, those rivet photos you posted just make it worse. Rats.

You need to hear from that dealer today.

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I better hear from them or I am going to be calling them after lunch. It should not take two days to figure this out.
I would not investigate my own occurence should it come to that. I do not feel this is criminal however it is borderline. The big problem will be proving their intent. Civil court has a far lower burden of proof.
I have sent those rivet pics to Starcraft. If they say this is just cosmetic and full hull warranty will cover this if it should leak in the future I am not going to worry about it.
But this boat is not the posterchild for Starcraft quality. I am having some friends over to "welcome" my new boat this weekend. I am going to get some ribbing about this paint work and those missing rivets. Starcraft isn't going to sell a lot of boats to anyone who sees this one.

 

[Jhudds]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

What ever you do do not start it, do not take it off the trailer do not use it. once you start it, or use it. If you do, its yours, defects and all.

I would wait till the end of the day to hear from them, if you do not, I would call out from work tomorrow. Hook the boat up and drive it right back to their lot. I then would say here is your boat back. I would call the bank if its financed and inform them of the issue.
What they are betting on is that since you live so far away that your going to just take it and take what ever deal they throw you.You need to get that boat back to them ASAP. I would phone a lawyer send him some correspondence today about the situation and let the dealer know that you are in contact with your lawyer. I also would be looking at involving the local news media, near the dealer of the situation.

There are other dealers out there. Get them their boat back tell them you are canceling the contract due to breach of contract. The merchandise they sold you is not what you received. End of story. Get your money back and go buy another islander from another dealer.



The more time you are in possession of the boat the worse it is. Get that boat back to them asap. You have a lemon there is no warranty for it and Starcraft is saying that there is no warranty. What happens when the paint starts peeling away and bubbling 5 days after you splash it.... Your fraked. No warranty.

Bootom line they sold you a NEW boat, and gave you a DEFECTIVE boat. get them their boat back and RUN away from that dealer.

 

[Aquaman-PSD]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I agree. I would call them before you leave and tell them that "my Lawyer said to bring the boat back so i'm on my way... see you in a few hours. Have the check ready or a new boat to avoind this getting ugly." at some point in time you have to let the A**holes know that your done playing games this is their problem and they need to fix it.

Your a lot nicer than me however, I would have already made it a personal goal to drive these ba**tards into the ground. I hate being lied to and I hate being scammed. I would have already contect the local news in the dealers location and had my lawyer contact the dealer. The news will help a lot... a little bit of bad publicity goes a long way.This is a crime and they are banking on the fact that you will get tired of fighting and and go away. I am the kind of customer gives people the benefit of a doubt until I get to the point where I feel I'm being played. I think it's come to that point by now...

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I had not been focusing on the rivet issue (mainly b/c I can't assess how serious it is, or what it shows) but if it's a cover-up of serious damage it could change things. Ironically, you have a better case when things are worse for you!

Here's one reason I have recommended against trying to return/exchange the boat (as someone said, cancel the sale): From my experience dealing with new car sales and customer issues, including those such as these, dealers can't reverse a new car sale b/c once a title is issued for a new car, it can never be re-sold as a new car, even if it never leaves the lot. They would have to take it back and resell as a used car at a big loss, as well as a "lost sale" b/c whoever buys it passed on a new car. I'm not saying that in the right case they shouldn't have to; I am explaining why they will fight to avoid that remedy. It's not the same with a used car, or with a new television, due to the title. I would assume boats are the same.

Lawyer up. Remember the "BMW paint-job" case.

 

[OllieC]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Like Jhudds said; "Don't Start It" - Don't even put it in the water until this is resolved. If you haven't put the numbers on it yet, wait on that too.

IM"Humble" O - I would demand a new boat - because what you got "ain't" new.....and from the sounds of it, that shouldn't be a problem, nor unreasonable....and if they can't make it happen, as others have said, consult an attorney - if it's a viable case, the "stealership" can pay the attorney and court fee's as well as delivering a new Starcraft and picking up the one you have today.

No more Mr. Nice Guy ricoh!!!

 

[ricohman]

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

Re: My new boat nightmare.....

I've called twice today and am still waiting for someone to call me back. I am not putting the numbers on the hull or anything until this is resolved. I bet the dealership will shut down for the day and I will still not have heard a thing. And on it goes.
Starcraft has been pretty good at replying. They have said that the missing rivet thing is cosmetic and my hull warranty should cover that if it leaks. They also said I should wire brush the paint at the rivets and apply self etching primer and topcoat, and read up on galvanic corrosion. Great....I need to wire brush and paint the new boat before using it.
Am I the only one who thinks this is odd?
I think I would like to exchange this for another Islander, as they have 5 or 6 left. And I think they should bring it to me and take this one back. I think legal action is inevitable at the rate this is going.