MFG Niagara

mfgniagara

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Re: MFG Niagara

Well, I have a motor ... a '66 33hp super sea horse in fact, but it's out of order right now and nobody will give me any more help on that thread, so I'm at a loss there.

I've got a 1967 33hp manual shift long shaft Evinrude that I was going to use on mine but I came across a clean Johnson 50hp that I plan to use now. The 33 runs good but I figured for about the same weight, I might as well go for the maximum power I can hang on there.

Plus the more modern motor is easier to get parts for. I figured I'd save the 33 for a big aluminum boat since it's got a tiller on it too.

What's wrong with the 33hp you have?
Is it manual or electric shift?
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

It's an electric start, but it's a cable shift. I've got all the pics of it here too http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m76/lonewolf8814/boats n stuff/66 johnson 33hp super seahorse/ I'm gonna put a 50 on it when I get the $, but for now it's the 33 or paddles! LOL! I haven't figured out for sure what's all wrong with it, but I know the concentric screws are loose & aren't holding the points .. one is even broke off half way in the stator plate. I'm thinking about just screwing it down permanently at .020 since that's where its spossed to be anyways.
 

reelfishin

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Re: MFG Niagara

Don't sell one of those 33hp motors short, I've got a 1970 33hp that runs great, I also have a newer 48SPL that I've hung in place of it and I really can't tell the difference. The 33 is lighter enough to make up for the lack of hp and I think the pin drive prop lower unit may actually be less drag in the water. That's a good motor for your Niagara if you get it running 100%.
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

Yeah, I'm told they're very quite & smoothe running. I'm likely gonna put her on my old ouachita bass boat later. Not to worry, I'm not gonna get a "newer" motor .... I don't realy do new. I like old stuff. Like the style & simplicity for sure. I'm looking for an old mid - late '60s motor for the niagara. I'm gonna talk to a guy about an old 65hp soon. The Niagara is rated for a 50hp. but that's not taking into account a bow mounted permanent tank or trim tabs. So I'm thinking it can take more HP than that so long as I stay under the weight limit rating. The guy I got it from, who got it from the corps, said they had an 80 HP on it when he got it.
 

mfgniagara

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Re: MFG Niagara

There's no need for more than a 50 on there. Mine came to me with an inline 6 cylinder Mercury outboard on it, it ran strong but was too much.

There's just not enough support around the sides of that transom to take the pounding a bigger motor like that can dish out. I'd stick with a big twin or similar. I think the best motor for these is the mid 80's Johnson/Evinrude 50hp twin, if not any of the earlier versions of that engine family will do fine. The 33hp is in that same family but with a pin drive lower unit. The early 40hp motors did well too. I've seen a few of these running around with only 25hp motors and they do fine, just not real fast. They get on plane fine though with the smaller motors. Mine is getting a rebadged 55 because that's what I have but it's no heavier than the 50hp that it should have and I'll not likely every open it all the way up. Plus, I'm adding three angle gussets below the splashwell for added transom support and I plan to tab the sides in super well attaching the new transom skin to the sides of the hull. I also run a 1/4" thick motor plate to protect the transom fiberglass.
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

Yeah, I was thinking about going ahead and putting 4 c-channel angled aluminum supports from the floor to a full length C-channel attatched & glassed over against the transom beneath the splashwell (which is pretty dang wide). That said, I'm definately not going to put anything bigger than 70-75HP on her. I'm just not gonna exclude any opportunities to snatch up a motor deal if they're a bit over 50HP, even though that is my target HP. I figure it'd be better that way anyways, since then I can get the motor up to an easily maintained cruising speed w/o any straining & heavy wear. But it'll have to be a motor that's fairly light, since I plan on swapping it in between my boats on occasion.
 

reelfishin

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Re: MFG Niagara

Any motor bigger than about a 50hp will be too much to lift by yourself.
Other than the OMC 55 or 60hp twins, anything larger will be a 3 or 4 cylinder.

I was thinking of adding two gussets to my transom, one on each side of the motor area, made from double layers of 3/4" plywood and glassed in place. Its just a little added strength and it'll provide better power transfer to the hull without adding much weight.
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

Well, I'm gonna take what I can get at a good price that's close to 50HP, that's all I know for sure. I'll be keeping that 33hp johnson on there for the foreseeable future though, since it's a '66 too. I know the standard is using marine plywood in the transom, but I've got some cedar 2x6's that I'm thinking would be great for the transom rebuild .......... what do ya think? Is there any reason it HAS to be plywood?? Seems like cedar would make for a far more waterproof, strong, & durable transom.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: MFG Niagara

Cedar will NOT be as strong as Plywood. You do NOT have to use Marine Ply. Most People do NOT. They use Ext. Grade and laminate 2 Piece of 3/4 inch. Or If the transom is thicker 3 Thicknesses of 5/8. The Laminations of Plywood and the Glass give it FAR superior Strenght than the Cedar.

It's your boat and you can do what you want, but I would HIGHLY recommend that you NOT use the cedar for your transom.

I'm just sayin...:D
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

Okie dokie, they'll be good for new skids on my trailer. No biggie, I've got some marine grade that I was gonna use, but was thinking the ceder'd be better .... not so much I guess. LOL! But the marine grade is still better than just exterior isn't it?

Man, that lonestar pic ya got there has me eye balling my old cadet hull again!! The wife'll kill me if I even mention that! LOL!!
 

mfgniagara

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Re: MFG Niagara

Marine plywood is basically a higher grade of pressure treated plywood.
It has less voids and filled patches. For the most part, on these smaller boats it's not really needed. Once you properly laminate and seal exterior ply, (I use ACX), its just as good. Being that your boat is fiberglass, you can use marine ply or pressure treated ply since you don't have to deal with the corrosion issues associated with the chemicals they use which can attack a metal hull.

I also like to laminate in a layer of glass between the two layers of plywood but I doubt it's really needed.
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

Well, I'll be honest ... I'm gonna over-do this transom replacement. I intend to have this so well done that it wont need even looking at in my lifetime. So I'm thinking of paint brushing some naptha or thompsons water seal on each side of each sheet, then glass over each sheet before glassin them into the transom. I know it doesn't take all that, but I've figured out that on this boat, the transom is pretty much the only natural weak spot in a very solidly made boat, so if I over do it, it'll last for my grandkids to take over someday. I like that concept .... and no, I don't have any grandkids yet.
 

ezmobee

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Re: MFG Niagara

Marine plywood is basically a higher grade of pressure treated plywood.
It has less voids and filled patches. For the most part, on these smaller boats it's not really needed. Once you properly laminate and seal exterior ply, (I use ACX), its just as good. Being that your boat is fiberglass, you can use marine ply or pressure treated ply since you don't have to deal with the corrosion issues associated with the chemicals they use which can attack a metal hull.

I also like to laminate in a layer of glass between the two layers of plywood but I doubt it's really needed.

You're mostly correct. Marine plywood, contrary to popular believe (I thought so too at one time) is NOT treated. It's merely less voids and better glue.
 

mfgniagara

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Re: MFG Niagara

There are both types of marine plywood, most is made from Douglas Fir, and there are several grades. the finest grades are used for hull construction, the P/T types are often used for deck and under deck construction where fungus and mold are an issue. The local supplier here stocks only the pressure treated type, as there's not much demand for wood boat hull construction these days.
Another type which is also pressure treated is MDO, which is often used a sign board too. I have two boats which were built using MDO from the factory as unfinished work and seating surfaces. MDO has a fiber or paper covering which makes it very smooth and easy to paint.

http://www.marine-plywood.us/douglas fir.htm
 

ezmobee

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Re: MFG Niagara

The Arauco plywood from Lowes is super nice. Real nice finish and practically NO voids. I used it for my transom and was very pleased with it. I have heard that it may be a little bit softer of a wood but it still seems to me that it's a better product than the regular exterior grade I used for my deck which had friggin' voids left and right.
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

I'm getting a few guys on fiberglassics who say I should go with the pourable transom stuff ... wich is just resin with glass micro spheres/baloons to increase surface space & reduce weight. There's a number of brands, but they're all essentially the same stuff. And WAAAYYY expensive... BUT I can get the resin and the glass stuff seperately for less and mix it myself. Anybody know anything about this stuff? If so, do I got the right idea?
 

Mark42

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Re: MFG Niagara

I'm getting a few guys on fiberglassics who say I should go with the pourable transom stuff ... wich is just resin with glass micro spheres/baloons to increase surface space & reduce weight. There's a number of brands, but they're all essentially the same stuff. And WAAAYYY expensive... BUT I can get the resin and the glass stuff seperately for less and mix it myself. Anybody know anything about this stuff? If so, do I got the right idea?

You will need to buy casting resin, not regular resin. Reason being regular resin will get so hot in those amounts it can start a fire. Casting resin hardens much slower, so it does not get hot in large amounts and does not crack from heating/cooling.

I looked into doing what you are thinking. I finally decided to just go with pressure treated plywood. It is just not worth the expense, and if not done right, the transom will just crack apart.
 

reelfishin

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Re: MFG Niagara

I'm getting a few guys on fiberglassics who say I should go with the pourable transom stuff ... wich is just resin with glass micro spheres/baloons to increase surface space & reduce weight. There's a number of brands, but they're all essentially the same stuff. And WAAAYYY expensive... BUT I can get the resin and the glass stuff seperately for less and mix it myself. Anybody know anything about this stuff? If so, do I got the right idea?

Same here, I considered mixing up my own transom filler but even then the cost and added labor comes pretty close to the cost of using Nida-Bond. On that Niagara you would only need 2 pails of Nida-Bond, I figured about 8 gallons on mine.
My concerns were on how to dam up the lower transom area so that the resin didn't pour into the bilge, and how to secure the drain tubes. After thinking about it, I just went ahead and used wood, if there was a way to avoid cutting or damaging the floor's edge ending up with some sort of visible repair inside the boat, I'd have done the Nida-Bond transom fix but since the splashwell on these comes right out and access to the inner transom area is fairly easy, I just did mine with ACX plywood and epoxy. Once it was all done you can see a taped seam along the sides and lower edges of the transom inside, but no cutting into the drainwell area or deck was needed. The original transom was rotted from the middle out, mostly just around the engine mounting area and upper corners. The lower transom wood was still dry and solid and was a real pain to dig out. I didn't cut the inner skin all the way out at the bottom, I left about an inch along where it met the floor. I dug out the lower wood, fitted the new transom wood, and sort of tilted it into place. I did have to notch it a bit at the top, but the wood I put in was a bit taller and wider than what I removed. The original wood either shrunk, or they didn't make the transom wood panel full size. It didn't reach up into the corners much past the tie down loops, and didn't reach the bottom of the boat much beyond the lower drain. The lower drain hole actually was only about 3/4 of it's diameter into the wood itself. I planed and file fit the new wood to fit like a glove, leaving only about 1/6" around the edges for epoxy. Its probably overkill, but the way I see it, if the original transom wood lasted 45 years, this will now last at least that long or more. By then, I'll be long gone.
Best of all, I had all the materials here left over from other projects so I didn't need to buy anything other than new drain tube sleeves.
 

lonewolf8814

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Re: MFG Niagara

I'll admit, I was pretty much leaning in that direction myself already, I was looking to see if anyone could give me some oppinions that might sway me back to the poured transom. I think, with this particular boat, being all fiberglass (excepting the transom), to do the pourable transom would make this thing relatively eternal, not counting the basic cosmetic touch-ups on occasion. I just dont think I can justify the cost right now. But man, wouldn't it be nice to have a boat that you knew you wouldn't have to do any major restoration work on one day, well, so long as ya don't wreck it at least!! LOL!
 
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