Mercruiser ECM replacement?

nola mike

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The distributor is also driven by the ECM, remove the ECM when you fit the carb, and you're going to need to replace the entire distributor system too. Add another 'few hundred dollars' there and it's starting to get cheaper to just fix what's wrong....
You're still in it for less than 1k. Maybe cheaper to fix what's wrong, maybe not. Being at the mercy of one manufacturer sucks. And even a diehard efi guy has to admit that a tbi isn't much of an upgrade.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Being as the location is Europe, there is also the possibility that someone has 'built up' an engine out of spares.

Everything I'm seeing is saying 1997 2bbl intake non-votrec, so I'll deal with it as such.

Flat cam, -807650T2
Roller cam, -861078T1

Both of these are no longer available from Merc (no surprise), but a few places can repair, or sell new.

Chris....

Achris in regards to Mefi 1, did merc use a knock module, not to be confused with a sensor.

 

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Tail_Gunner

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Achris in regards to Mefi 1, did merc use a knock module, not to be confused with a sensor.


It appears so, Bup lays it out quite clearly. Or maybe I have had one to many knocks myself...Quite possible

do not remember the timing curve for this engine and I'm almost 100 % it is not listed in the service repair manual. I have the manuals for this but not in front me to 100% verify that nor looked at it in a while but I am pretty sure it is not listed. If I get time, I will pull the service manual out to verify this.

Like I said MEFI 1 & 2 used EXTERNAL knock sensor MODULES and all Knock sensor(s) are external. On MEFI 3 NO EXTERNAL Knock Sensor MODULE was used as its bases / circuit is within the MEFI 3 ECM. Also like I said L29 Big blocks used 2 Knock sensors and had 2 dedicated connectors thru pin connector J1/30 and J1/14.- FYI J1/30 pin connector was for KS # 1 and if only one KS was used.

If you have a Knock Module you have MEFI 1 or 2 NOT MEFI 3. These ECMs MEFI 1 & 2 looks exactly the same but MEFI 3 looks totally different is more square and smaller dimensions.. His app is MEFI 3 - with one KS and NO Knock Module. I would triple check to make sure your BWD - KS is the correct one for the MEFI 3 / 502 app but heck you can not even go by the BWD catalog as it is listed wrong.

 

Lou C

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I can see both sides of the discussion, when you start changing things the devil is in the details, however, freedom from the marketing habits of the OEMs is one of the advantages of old school I/O power. In this case money wise it might be a wash, if all that the OP needs is the ECM, vs a new manifold, carb, distributor, and odds and ends. You can't even GET an Edelbrock 1409 right now not new at least. Manifolds, well you can get the pre-vortec ones on ebay used (have to be careful), you can use alu but then if sourced from Edelbrock some of those are on back order too.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Alldodge thank you for your answer.
From what I can understand you're suggesting that the engine had an incorrect ecm installed. I cannot argue with this, as I purchased the boat/engine after 15-20 years of storage.
Attached a printscreen of the ecm listed on mercury marine parts catalog (part numbers 807650t2, 861078t1, 806720t7) for my serial number. Do you know which delco ecm is it?
I have checked plugs, compression and firing order, replaced distributor with a new one. I don't know what cap and rotor means!
Kind regards,
Kostas

This new distributor, do you have the make and model number. As to the engine serial number, let's focus on the head design. Underneath the valve covers there are casting numbers, they will identify your engines needs.

Your current setup may well work, it just needs to be setup correctly. Beyond the head casting numbers, timing a Mefi engine is very spefic, can you post exactly the procedure used?

While you do not have diagnostic software you can do some foundational testing.

You will need a timing light, and a timing tape. The tape will allow you watch the timing advance as you rev the engine up in neutral. If the engine does not advance or jumps around under high rpm there is your problem. A video of you doing this would be all telling. A note here, the timing marker should start at 10 degrees initial timing and advance to at least 26 degrees by 3000 rpm.

If the timing does advance, the take off the dust cover and point the timing light at the injectors. They both should display a round conical spray pattern. This pattern should be uniform and constant...As you approach 2000/2500 rpm pay close attention to both injectors.

A timing light will capture the the injectors spraying in almost a still picture like image.

Sounds tedious but it is part of the process.

At this point do not connect your engines knock sensors, they only muddy the waters.

Below is a timing tape, and you need one designed for your spefic 5.7

 
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Tail_Gunner

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Finally found the seperate knock module. Look closely at that part, do you have it mounted on your engine near the ECU. Based upon that engine switch over you cannot assume anything.

In regards to your distributor I see a Delco product when merc used a t-bolt. Can that be done with a Mefi system?
 
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nola mike

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Yep, but that happens anytime you buy anything... And outboard are even worse...
Plenty of aftermarket for the gm products. The efi proprietary computer stuff is the worst. New outboards are worse, new cars are worse... They have an ability to make things unfixable unless you're a dealer
 

Lou C

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The best aftermarket is the classic Chevrolet small block enough of everything to keep them running through the next apocalypse!
 

Ferrarakias

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Just a quick update for all of you who kindly offered to help me out.

Sent the ecm to OBD Diagnostics (Redondo Beach CA) and finally got it back safely to Greece. The report from Bob of OBD was as follows: "It is for a 1996 Merc 5.7TBI engine and had 36 hours on it and no logged trouble codes. It ran on the harness, the injectors fired fine, all the sensors and relays and IAC were good, the IC and bypass lines were good. Nothing wrong with this ecm".

So replaced the doner ecm with its original one and started the engine. It struggled to start, didn't run healthy at all and misfired a lot. Couldn't idle, lots of excess unburnt fuel from the exhaust and the engine was dying. Managed to take some log files with the MEFI 1 scanning package I also purchased from OBD and sent these to Bob. He got back reporting "These are good logs, the ecm is working properly. This engine is barely running and is struggling a lot. The engine looks hurt to me, it is not generating much vacuum. Do a leak down test or at least a compression check to see if all 8 cylinders are burning the same, and that the engine is physically healthy. Then set base timing and check your fuel pressure".

Got one spark plug off and noticed an unusual brown colour (please see attached pictures), so ordered a new set of plug wires and spark plugs, installed them and boom the engine fired up right away and was idling as it should. The response to the throttle was immediate but there was still unburnt fuel coming from the exhaust. It seems to me that both the injectors on the carb are spraying more fuel than needed and spark plugs get wet with unburnt fuel.

As already mentioned in my previous posts, had already done a compression check to all 8 cylinders (150-160psi) and the fuel pump assembly was replaced with a new oem one. Could it be that the fuel pressure regulator kit is not working properly and the fuel pressure is more than it should so the TBI are spraying lots of fuel?

A friend suggested prior replacing the fuel pressure regulator to replace the Throttle Position Sensor, the Idle Air Control valve and the MAP sensor. Any suggestions from you experts out there?

Thank you in advance for all your help.

Kostas
 

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Fun Times

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it is not generating much vacuum.
unburnt fuel coming from the exhaust. It seems to me that both the injectors on the carb are spraying more fuel than needed and spark plugs get wet with unburnt fuel.
A friend suggested prior replacing the fuel pressure regulator to replace the Throttle Position Sensor, the Idle Air Control valve and the MAP sensor. Any suggestions from you experts out there?
With the description above the more probable "sensor" (if actually the case) to cause these types of issues would be the MAP sensor...Item number 16, https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31880/2338/110

The other sensors mentioned above, not really so much (but still possible of course) with an exception of maybe the distributor module item number 9 only because of how the engine seems to not be running correctly, https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31880/2338/80
Or engine temperature sensor item number 17, https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31880/2338/70

Fuel psi from a bad regulator? yes it could be too but the fuel pressure should really be checked first so you know what the fuel psi is right now and then after a new regulator should you decide to buy and install one just because you've been running down this road already it seems.

Make sure the engine temperature is truly reaching 160 degrees and sensor # 17 sees it reading right on a marine scan tool...Not the dash gauge as it's a different sensor than the ECM sensor.

Also you may need to try connecting a vacuum gauge up to see what the inner engine is doing too.

Good luck.
 

alldodge

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Replaced the wires and plugs and it runs better, great
As mentioned in post 21, Ebay injectors in most cases are junk. Ebay sells old junk injectors as new/rebuilt. Your still flooding and you need new injectors
 

Ferrarakias

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With the description above the more probable "sensor" (if actually the case) to cause these types of issues would be the MAP sensor...Item number 16, https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31880/2338/110

The other sensors mentioned above, not really so much (but still possible of course) with an exception of maybe the distributor module item number 9 only because of how the engine seems to not be running correctly, https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31880/2338/80
Or engine temperature sensor item number 17, https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31880/2338/70

Fuel psi from a bad regulator? yes it could be too but the fuel pressure should really be checked first so you know what the fuel psi is right now and then after a new regulator should you decide to buy and install one just because you've been running down this road already it seems.

Make sure the engine temperature is truly reaching 160 degrees and sensor # 17 sees it reading right on a marine scan tool...Not the dash gauge as it's a different sensor than the ECM sensor.

Also you may need to try connecting a vacuum gauge up to see what the inner engine is doing too.

Good luck.
Many thanks for your suggestions.
Bought and replaced the engine temperature sensor last weekend (picture 1), had already replaced the distributor sensor last year and finally bought the map sensor and will be replacing it also next week.
Engine started effortlessly, was idling perfect and the response to the throttle was immediate. I'm sure the rpm were certainly higher than what I used to hear up until now. Nevertheless black smoke was still coming out of the exhaust, maybe the exhaust is filled with smoke and will clean eventually, who knows? (picture 2 is taken while on idle). I can't tell if excess fuel is sprayed by the tbi as I have never seen another, took a video but I can't find a way of posting it here.
Borrowed a fuel pressure gauge to measure the pressure but the kit didn't come with the correct banjos, will make some on the lathe. The throttle body has two fuel inlets (picture 3), one with a plug (smaller diameter) and another where the fuel line from the fuel pump goes. Should I measure the pressure straight from the fuel pump? What reading should I have? 30psi? The other inlet with the plug is to measure the pressure after the fuel pressure regulator on the throttle body? What reading should this have? Should I disassembly the fuel regulator and replace gaskets/check condition?
Many thanks for your answers.
 

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Ferrarakias

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Replaced the wires and plugs and it runs better, great
As mentioned in post 21, Ebay injectors in most cases are junk. Ebay sells old junk injectors as new/rebuilt. Your still flooding and you need new injectors
alldodge,
Thank you for your answer.
As already mentioned, I bought the rebuilted kit of injectors from an ebay seller with 100% positive feedback. The cost of oem injectors is way high, so took a chance. Indeed maybe the injectors are junk but isn't there a way to test and be sure?
Is there a way I can send you the video I took of the injectors spraying while engine on idle so you can comment?
Kind regards
 

alldodge

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Fuel pressure 30 psi
Can be read from where the plug was or using an adapter which connects inline but its expensive
TBI fuel 91-806901.jpg

Only way I know to verify injectors is to have them cleaned and flow tested. Normal cost is 25 to 30 each
 

Ferrarakias

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Fuel pressure 30 psi
Can be read from where the plug was or using an adapter which connects inline but its expensive
So i remove the plug (smaller diameter of the two inlets) and connect the fuel pressure gauge, turn the ignition so the fuel pump can pressurize fuel and take measurements? Should I start the engine also?
Only way I know to verify injectors is to have them cleaned and flow tested. Normal cost is 25 to 30 each
Problem is I don't think there is such an option here locally. (I'm in Greece by the way).

Kind regards
 

alldodge

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So i remove the plug (smaller diameter of the two inlets) and connect the fuel pressure gauge, turn the ignition so the fuel pump can pressurize fuel and take measurements? Should I start the engine also?
Either should show close to 30, running or not. If the key turns ON and it goes to 30, but then immediately drops, then Reg is leaking. If memory serves there are no drippings with key ON, motor not running

Bummer on the Greece thing other then would be nice to see it some day :)
 

Ferrarakias

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Took the throttle body and the adaptor assembly off to replace the gaskets and noticed rust marks inside the intake manifold, is this usual? Please take a look at the pictures...
Many thanks,
 

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