Looking to buy my first boat

[jasonstein]

I'm looking to buy my first boat. I'm going to get a bowrider in the 17-19 ft. range. I don't know a lot about boats but have been doing my research and learning what i can before I buy. When i first started looking the bayliners caught my eye because of the price and because the older ones really still look stylish but then as you get reading around it sounds like they are on the lower end quality wise.

One thing i have heard and to me makes complete sense that in older boats it's often the wooden floors and area's that start to get "soft"

Hearing this i really want one that is all fiberglass.

Are the newer bayliners all fiberglass? Do they have fiberglass floors?

I'm looking for something probably newer than 2000, like to have something that is all fiberglass and would like to stay 6-8 grand. Want it to be close to mint condition.

Any thought/advice?

I'm going to go with a 3.0L or 4.3L as fuel mileage is important to me.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[roscoe]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

17-19'
all glass
newer than 2000
close to mint condition


all mutually exclusive in my opinion.

Very few manufacturers offer all wood-free boats, certainly true in the lower price category.
Even some that touted wood-free, were later found to be stretching the truth.

Often times, a larger i/o engine will get nearly as good, or the same mileage, as a smaller engine that will need to be working at wot to achieve the same results. But certainly, a 4.3 is enough for a boat in that size range.


When it comes to price, local markets and condition are the driving forces.

 

[jasonstein]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

So your saying all of the boats in that range newer than 2000 are moreless going to be the same? They will all have fiberglass floors including a bayliner?

I'm looking all over right now as i'm from Ontario Canada but in January am driving down to Cape Coral for a month (can pick a boat up on the way) Plan on using the boat down there and then bring it home.

Looks like the cheapest boats right now may be in the area's where they are due to get cold weather.

Thanks
Jason

17-19'
all glass
newer than 2000
close to mint condition


all mutually exclusive in my opinion.

Very few manufacturers offer all wood-free boats, certainly true in the lower price category.
Even some that touted wood-free, were later found to be stretching the truth.

Often times, a larger i/o engine will get nearly as good, or the same mileage, as a smaller engine that will need to be working at wot to achieve the same results. But certainly, a 4.3 is enough for a boat in that size range.


When it comes to price, local markets and condition are the driving forces.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

So your saying all of the boats in that range newer than 2000 are moreless going to be the same? They will all have fiberglass floors including a bayliner?

No, I am saying you will not likely find a boat like that, in that price range.

Many boats have glass floors, but what is under the glass? What is the glass supported with?
Wood in most cases. And wood stringers too.
Most all of the cheaper boats are going to have wood transoms as well.

"no wood" and "composite" boats have issues too.

In my opinion, you will need to spend much more money for the perfect boat you describe.

And most boats in cold climate areas, will be stored away in January.


Find a good boat that fits your needs.
Have it checked out with a marine surveyor.
Continue to take good care of it, and it should last for many years.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

To answer your question about newer Bayliners and wood,,, there is a thread on this site where two Bayliners of 2012 found WET wood in the transom. Bayliner earned a bad rep in the 80s and have not earned a change yet. That is not to say all Bayliners are a problem. It depends on how great the deal is, how the survey comes out, and how comfortable you are gambling.
My 2006 EdgeWater has zero wood. But at 21' you will have a hard time finding one under $20K. There are many great used boats out there. Take your time. Have several in mind. Have a survey done and if satisfactory have a mechanic check the engine. Maintenance and storage is paramount. Check maintenance records. You will find some professionally maintain with an open checkbook like mine but that does not mean an owner doing his own maintenance is less well maintained. Ask for documentation. My boat is stored inside on a dry stack I own. Boats stored outside uncovered should never be considered so look for signs. In that size/weight range do not discount a 115 or 150 hp outboard. While your at it, have the mechanic that OKed the motor you are buying check the tires, breaks, and bearings on the trailer you are buying. Good luck in your search--- and don't buy anything you cannot put on the water! on the muffs does not count. Make sure the registration is good to be transferred too.

 

[pckeen]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Hi Jason,

Welcome to iboats - I've done the same thing you are doing - leaving Ontario for the States to find a boat - the prices are better down there.

There are good boats in the price range you want ($6-8k), but at that price, you will normally be looking at boats of at least 10 years old, so finding a boat with no plywood in them will be difficult. Don't be scared off a boat with plywood in it - most do or did have plywood. There there are many older boats out there that, if they have been well cared for and maintained, will still be solid. On the other hand, a a five year old boat that has not been maintained, has been stored outside without a proper cover, and used heavily and without care, may well be in terrible condition.

In the price range you are looking at, condition is everything. You want to find a boat that is solid: no soft floors, and a solid transom with absolutely no flex in it; well maintained, good interior, good mechanicals. Check with the owner how the boat was maintained and stored. Ask to see service records. Have a marine mechanic go over the boat with you, if you are not sure what to look for.

Look at lots of boats - don't decide on the one you want based on a craigslist ad, then go to see it and buy it. Be prepared to spend some time looking. This is a good season to buy...

 

[bspeth]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Its all about how it was kept. There are 5 year old pieces of junk and 25 year old gems.

 

[jc55]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

To add to the non technical side, if you can get a first boat "to learn on" inexpensively(ground it, hit the dock, leave the out drive down at the ramp, lol), then you can decide what you really want later. I bought a 17', '84 sea swirl open bow for $4k once. It had a 4.3 OMC, and was a really dry boat. I had soooo much fun with it but decided I wanted a mercruiser I/O and a cuddy cabin. I cleaned her up and sold it for more, then honed in on what suited me best in that $6k range...(my Baja) just like dirt bikes, and guitars.

 

[jkust]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Its all about how it was kept. There are 5 year old pieces of junk and 25 year old gems.

I very rarely see a 5 year old piece of junk given our boating season is three months and someone likely made payments on it so at least the first owner attempted to cover it during the loan term. I've seen it one time where a guy bought it and basically it was community property for all of his friends and it was beat to heck. Same for the 25 year old gem. Most Gems I see have been refinished because one of the owners down the line didn't take care of it. Old gems that meet your needs are there, of course it's just more frustrating to locate one. My take on this is to just buy something that is a few years old and nearly new but severely depreciated. It is so amazingly common here that people buy, a boat use it a few times a year and the kids activities got in the way then they sell it barely past the break in point. You don't sound picky on brand and Bayliners are just fine and they are cheap and all boats have the same engines. As for the 3.0 vs the 4.3. the carbed 4.3 has 43% more HP than the 3.0 and gets the same economy but of course is gong to cost abit more up front if indeed it is only 5 years old. I see a lot of 3.0's out on the water (they make a distinct sound so can be discerned from a mile away) and those people are doing just fine with less power however.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

I'm looking to buy my first boat.
One thing i have heard and to me makes complete sense that in older boats it's often the wooden floors and area's that start to get "soft"

Hearing this i really want one that is all fiberglass.

Are the newer bayliners all fiberglass? Do they have fiberglass floors?

I'm looking for something probably newer than 2000, like to have something that is all fiberglass and would like to stay 6-8 grand. Want it to be close to mint condition.

Any thought/advice?

I'm going to go with a 3.0L or 4.3L as fuel mileage is important to me.

Thanks,
Jason

The more that you learn about boats, the more that you will understand that fiberglass is a only covering material to a large degree. Wood has been used extensively in the structure of boats and as stiffening material for decks, hatches, and other components.

Some boat manufactures have reduced the amount of wood and even some have eliminated wood altogether. Check out Glastron and Larson (VEC hull technology I believe) They got rid of wood in the stringers, but not necessarily in the bulkheads, etc.

Some higher end boats have composite structures, but those are the bigger boats and not fitting to the size nor price range that you are targeting.

Manufacturers are not always clear on the details of their construction process. Much of it is clouded by marketing lingo and hype. So, answers you get may be subject to error.

 

[jkust]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

The Wood has been used extensively in the structure of boats and as stiffening material for decks, hatches, and other components.

Some boat manufactures have reduced the amount of wood and even some have eliminated wood altogether. Check out Glastron and Larson (VEC hull technology I believe) They got rid of wood in the stringers, but not necessarily in the bulkheads, etc.

Some higher end boats have composite structures, but those are the bigger boats and not fitting to the size nor price range that you are targeting.

.

To add to that, the properties of wood are actually good assuming no rot. VEC has it's pluses and minuses and I've certainly seen both sides of those boats. The shameful thing is that at least in fresh water, there really are no bad boats just bad owner. If all boat owners were like many of us on this board, all boats would be gems and rot would be the exception not the rule for old boats.

 

[airshot]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Save yourself a lot of headache on your first boat and go with a good make of aluminium boat. Worst case scenario a couple leaking rivets but easy to fix, mabey a rotten wood transom, easy to fix. All in all for economy and minimal maintainence go with a good starcraft alum boat. Been a boater for more than 50 yrs, had two glass boats, each was a hard lesson learned, nothing but alum since. An insurance adjuster once told me that if safety is a concern, a good aluminium boat will take a strong impact much better than a glass boat as the glass boat will shatter and sink like a rock whereas the alum boat will be severly dented and not repairable but won't come apart and sink. One reason insurance is much cheaper...

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

WELLlllllllllllllllllllll ~~ the main reason tin boats cost less to insure is the cost less to build, less to repair, and less to replace. I've owned 4 tin boats and all were great for what they did. However, the 22' Sylvan cuddy Offshore model was NOT a good boat for offshore. Tin boats are light weight and no matter how powered rough water makes them difficult to control. The exception to a point is one model --- the Lund Baron. It is a heavy tin boat. You see very few tin boats beyond a short distance in the Great Lakes or oceans-- safety is the reason.

Save yourself a lot of headache on your first boat and go with a good make of aluminium boat. Worst case scenario a couple leaking rivets but easy to fix, mabey a rotten wood transom, easy to fix. All in all for economy and minimal maintainence go with a good starcraft alum boat. Been a boater for more than 50 yrs, had two glass boats, each was a hard lesson learned, nothing but alum since. An insurance adjuster once told me that if safety is a concern, a good aluminium boat will take a strong impact much better than a glass boat as the glass boat will shatter and sink like a rock whereas the alum boat will be severly dented and not repairable but won't come apart and sink. One reason insurance is much cheaper...

 

[jasonstein]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Thanks guys for all of your input. I have took all of the comments into consideration. I wish i had time or was able to go look at a ton of boats but that is just not going to be possible. I have come across something that i really feel is a deal and well below value at a dealership ranked as one of the tops in the U.S. I'm going to now try to find a surveyor who can look the boat over and confirm that it is in great shape. I'd love to see it in person but it's about a 18 hour drive from me so that won't be possible. I'll pick it up on my way down to Cape Coral.

That being said anyone know of a good surveyor in the Savannah area?
What is a normal rate to inspect a small 18 ft. boat?

Thanks,
Jason

 

[izoomie]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

You can tell a lot about a boat by the way it has been taken care of. Go for clean, clean, clean. Any boat that looks neglected on the surface will be a problem mechanically also. Don't forget to look close at the trailer. Tires are a good indicator of a poor or well maintained rig.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Well ~~~ I look at my trailer every 3 - 4 months and give moving parts a shot of 6-56. My boat sits inside on a dry rack when not in use. The trailer is an '06 and does not have 150 miles on it. Probably will not move for years until the boat is sold. Tires may easily need replaced when the for sale sign goes on it. Then it will be pulled to the marina to have the boat set on it. This is an aluminum dual axel trailer.

 

[jasonstein]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

I'm not too concerned about figuring out if the trailer is any good. That is what i do is build trailers so i can spot that a mile away!

 

[pckeen]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Hi Jason - good luck wit that - I see you didn't get a response on the surveyor question - try posting a new thread on that, if you haven't already found one, and let us know what you find out....and what you buy!

 

[jasonstein]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

Hi Peter, I did find a surveyor in the area and I think he is going to do a great job for me. I found what I think is a steal ($6000 plus dealer prep, so $6500) on a 2006 Stingray 185 with only 64 hours on it. It is being cleared out at one of the largest, highest rated dealers in the Southeast. If everything checks out the way they say (they say it's in excellent shape, and perfect working order) then i'm very happy. Bob who is doing the survey will be going everything over for me except a compression test which I already have a copy of which the dealer did when they bought the boat off the owner. Bob is also taking the boat out for a run to make sure all works well in the water. It's so hard taking there word for everything from there pictures especially when there pictures are not super high res but Bob is going to take lots of pics for me and talk with me on the phone as he visually does the cosmetic inspection. He is going to be my eyes and ears, good thing is his eyes and ears have 40 years experience looking over boats where mine have none!

If all goes well i will be picking the boat up about Jan 25th and heading down to use it for a month in cape coral to go fishing and boating.

I'll incure some costs bringing this boat back but the thing is i need it in Florida anyways but there is NO Way I could find a boat anything like this for this cost in Ontario. Do you agree Peter?

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Looking to buy my first boat

I have a hard time understanding why boats bring a premium price in an area where summer lasts about 11 days.