Lone Star Medallion II 1966, Oh Scrap!

[64osby]

Found a project with another armor hull set up rirory 2009 http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...uminum-rebuild

He had 15 "stringers" made up and installed them. Then Steel flexed the whole boat.

They look like ribs to me.

 

[classiccat]

Ribs Indeed! I wonder where the op is these days to find out how its holding up...

Check out the side supports

 

[64osby]

cc - The side supports ^^^ are factory.

Decided to perform a little exploratory surgery.

The resin and cloth peel right up.



The back 4' of plywood removed. Looks like the last attempt was to leave the foam in and glue the ply to the foam.



The PO cut the original wood right down the middle to remove. He cut 2" into the foam also.



The transom wood was glassed above the sole and no finish below.



The transom wood is surprisingly firm, but is water logged.

There are remnants of the factory fiberglass work behind each of the side braces. It looks like the original construction was to install the sole, foam the boat, fiberglass the floor to the hull and then add the side supports. The rivets pass through the fiberglass.



Here you can see that the original foam never made it to the corner.



Cont.

 

[64osby]

The port side where the foam did not cover the corner had some small evidence of water intrusion. Only about 1" at the seam with the hull.



The foam against the transom was wet but only again for about 1".



Removed about 16" of foam from the port side past the center keel.



Dry, solid and stuck to the hull for the most part. The etching paint is very good in most places.

Below the transom there is some evidence of corrosion.



I'm actually surprised that there wasn't more corrosion. One spot was about 2 1/2" x 3", the other 3 places are smaller then a nickle.

Also it is a great sign that the foam is as dry as it is.... so far.

There is a whole lot more work to do but so far nothing that tells me this Lone Star is scrap.

 

[64osby]

Ribs Indeed! I wonder where the op is these days to find out how its holding up...

Check out the side supports

I'm amazed at the spaces between the "stringers" and the hull. Maybe that was prior to riveting them?

 

[GA_Boater]

The mainly dry foam is a good sign. You re still a long way from making beer cans. There is hope. :smile: I wonder if the moisture is from the tabbing coming loose and rain? Do you know if she was kept covered?

If your Medallion is constructed the same as the pic above, there are a pair of mini-stringers. They appear riveted, but I think you said you had no rivets in the bottom in yours.

 

[64osby]

She was a garage queen for the last 4 years according to the PO. He bought it and never did anything to it.

No stringers here. The other boat was an 18'er. this is 16'.

 

[Watermann]

Lone Star's design has set the bar pretty high for the dedication level to make her like new again. I've seen plenty of abandoned threads here with good boats that need half the work.

I stand in awe on this one... I know you can pull it off! :hail:

 

[64osby]

Lone Star's design has set the bar pretty high for the dedication level to make her like new again. I've seen plenty of abandoned threads here with good boats that need half the work.

I stand in awe on this one... I know you can pull it off! :hail:

Certainly not there yet. I have seen 5 or 6 threads with a boat of similar construction that end just after the hull is cleaned out. :faint2:

Not saying I'm going with foam yet, but from what I've seen and read on some other sites - aluminum and epoxy resin are not a great mix. To get a good bond the prep has to be perfect and you still need some luck. Do you think 5200 could be used to tab the sole to the hull?

It might be easier to cut and seal up a new sole fix it in place and pour in foam. The alternative is to try and design a rib / stringer plan. Fabricate it, install it, sheet foam and then install the sole.

 

[GA_Boater]

As long as the hull is fairly corrosion free, 64 can pull this off. He just has to look at some glasser restos for ideas. At least grinding is minimal. :redface-new:

 

[64osby]

As long as the hull is fairly corrosion free, 64 can pull this off. He just has to look at some glasser restos for ideas. At least grinding is minimal. :redface-new:

The no grinding thing is huge.

I've been searching the web for foam in aluminum boats info and one thing that pops up repeatedly is the infamous expanding foam in aluminum boats thread started by Jason. http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...ing-pour-in-flotation-foam-and-aluminum-boats

In that thread I made one post. Editing the post yields this.

My .02 - To clarify, I have not rebuilt a project or put foam in a boat. I will someday.

Poured in foam in sealed compartments and for structural use seems to be the correct and proper use. This would apply to FG boats. If I ever decided to rebuild a FG I would use it. I would also place rigid foam in areas areas that would be subject to known water penetration areas.

Aluminum boats (most) are not designed to have sealed compartments and don't require foam for structure. They are designed to have the water flow to the bilge and be pumped out. It is obvious to me that poured in foam as currently installed does not allow for that event to occur. When I end up rebuilding my boat I will pack as much rigid foam (or other suitable flotation) as possible under the sole (deck).

So my conclusion is that all of this is a personal preference. Use materials best suited to your boat and use a much as possible with the thought if some emergency does happen; you have done the best possible job for those on your boat.

My day has come to rebuild a boat.

The Lone Star is one of the aluminum boats designed to have sealed compartments and structural foam. :watermelon:

The Medallion doesn't have a bilge. Apparently LS didn't get the memo that Alum boats should have a bilge. :blue:

 

[GA_Boater]

My .02 - To clarify, I have not rebuilt a project or put foam in a boat. I will someday.

My day has come to rebuild a boat.

The Lone Star is one of the aluminum boats designed to have sealed compartments and structural foam. :watermelon:

The Medallion doesn't have a bilge. Apparently LS didn't get the memo that Alum boats should have a bilge. :blue:

You must have been gazing into a crystal ball. 64. LOL

A thought just came to me - I know, I know! With no stringers and all the foam is removed, after the floor is in place, how do you tab to the hull with out getting inside? Is there a ledge or flange the wood rests on? Otherwise wouldn't the wood have to levitate until tabbing is finished and the foam is poured in? Also the tabbing would have to support your weight and the wood.

Conversely, since the wood won't be tied to stringers, how do you hold the wood down until the foam expands? The wood might look like swiss cheese with all the expansion vents.

I shouldn't get up so early to watch a football game in London. :facepalm:

 

[Watermann]

Certainly not there yet. I have seen 5 or 6 threads with a boat of similar construction that end just after the hull is cleaned out. :faint2:

Not saying I'm going with foam yet, but from what I seen and read on some other sites - aluminum and epoxy resin are not a great mix. To get a good bond the prep has to be perfect and you still need some luck. Do you think 5200 could be used to tab the sole to the hull?

It might be easier to cut and seal up a new sole fix it in place and pour in foam. The alternative is to try and design a rib / stringer plan. Fabricate it, install it, sheet foam and then install the sole.

I don't think 5200 would be a very good choice, it's way too runny for that job. Although poly glue on the other hand would be a strong possibility it's said to join pretty much any type of material. Maybe not the expanding type that foams up and has to be tightly clamped, not sure how you would do that.

Rather something like the PL premium 8X

• Bonds wood, hardwood flooring, concrete, stone, marble, slate, masonry, brick, foam insulation, carpets, metal, lead, cement-based products, ceramic, fiberglass, drywall and mirrors.
• Waterproof formula is excellent for both interior and exterior use.

Just a thought anyway.

 

[64osby]

You must have been gazing into a crystal ball. 64. LOL

A thought just came to me - I know, I know! With no stringers and all the foam is removed, after the floor is in place, how do you tab to the hull with out getting inside? Is there a ledge or flange the wood rests on? Otherwise wouldn't the wood have to levitate until tabbing is finished and the foam is poured in? Also the tabbing would have to support your weight and the wood.

Conversely, since the wood won't be tied to stringers, how do you hold the wood down until the foam expands? The wood might look like swiss cheese with all the expansion vents.

I shouldn't get up so early to watch a football game in London. :facepalm:

Or maybe a hypnotic one.:facepalm:

I'll give a call to David Blaine when the time comes.:joyous:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUTqEXRuxQ8

This is the seam where the hull bottom meets the side. Under the hard goop that looks like liquid nails are the rivets.



The plywood will be on top of the rivets and below the side wall stiffeners. Hard to see but is in the lower RH side of this pic.



Just have to measure the space between the hull and the support and see if the sole sits on the rivets or needs to be levitated.:joyous:

Holding it down shouldn't be an issue. Who knows might even try putting a shallow cup in the sole so the water stays away from the sides.

 

[64osby]

I don't think 5200 would be a very good choice, it's way too runny for that job. Although poly glue on the other hand would be a strong possibility it's said to join pretty much any type of material. Maybe not the expanding type that foams up and has to be tightly clamped, not sure how you would do that.

Rather something like the PL premium 8X

• Bonds wood, hardwood flooring, concrete, stone, marble, slate, masonry, brick, foam insulation, carpets, metal, lead, cement-based products, ceramic, fiberglass, drywall and mirrors.
• Waterproof formula is excellent for both interior and exterior use.

Just a thought anyway.

Thinking something that grips great yet remains flexible so it won't crack over time. Lexal comes to mind, but it's pretty big $$$ for a sealant.

 

[Watermann]

A sealant too, how about Sikaflex? I used it to wet seal the bottoms of my Chief windshields. It's the only thing to use on AL and it's not runny at all.

 

[jbcurt00]

SikaFlex is really similar to 5200: super sticky, somewhat a PITA to work with and hard as heck to get off stuff you didn't want to get it on...... And shouldn't be nearly as runny.....

 

[64osby]

A PO sure put lot of thought on repairing his tin boat. Truly stupid thoughts. He must never heard of iboats.

The seam below is riveted. The whole seam. As you can see they did a great job of covering it up ... with Bondo!:mad-new:



So what is the easiest way to remove bondo from an aluminum hull?

Also what is the easiest way to remove what appears to be liquid nails from the inside of the seam?




Oh Scrap!:lol:

 

[jbcurt00]

Expose the bondo via any means necessary and leave it exposed to the elements. Bondo will often absorb water and fail, that's why it's a no no over in the glass rehab Topics. A little help from a high pressure pressure washer might help speed that along. I am VERY fond of our 3500psi PW w/ a rotary head.

Inow have access to a mobile, self contained 5000+psi PW w/ mobile propane boiler :target: :target: I suspect it's NOT recommended for aluminum applications and is too industrial/high pressure for my current rotary head to handle.

The 3500/rotary head doesn't damage the aluminum and does a great job w/ most stuff stuck to an aluminum hull. Although It's only 50/50 against bedliner :facepalm: And I doubt it'd be much better on carpet/vinyl glue...

 

[64osby]

Was able to peel off some of the bondo. Searched online and the body guys say to use heat. Torch or heat gun. I used a torch because I don't have a heat gun.

Low flame with several passes warms it up, deosn't even burn the paint. Loosens up the bondo and it scraps off much easier. Used a wire wheel to clean up the rivet heads. Almost looks like new.



Also saw what is left of the original mfg tag for the trailer. Hit it with the wire wheel and uncovered this.



Thought it looked Gatorish. My second one I've owned. Nice trailers

Have to see if it has been modified. The tongue shows this to have a 3500# capacity. But all the info I've seen so far shows those came with dual axle trailers.



Anyone ever discovered a source for a 4 lug rim for a 6.9 - 9.0 tire? The tire I can get, the rim?



Picked up a couple new toys to try and help with the gunk removal. I'll let you know how they work.:joyous: