Lloyd Bentsen

18rabbit · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by --GQ--: Any Communistic agendas at work here?

YES!!! That is EXACTLY the stuff the Communist party is hard at work with. And the communists are at work: - Trying to get amnesty for the illegal aliens, just like the democrats. - The communists are critical of Bush for not having an exit strategy, want the US out of - Iraq, just like the democrats. - The communists want more controls over Israel to facilitate a Palestinian state, just like the democrats. - The communists want better mine safety for miners, juts like the democrats. - The communists want to increase the min wage, just like the democrats. - The communists want universal healthcare for everyone, just like the democrats. - The communists want Democrats elected in 2006/08, just like the democrats. - The communists are opposed to any/all tax rebates, just like the democrats. The list goes on and on. I kid you not, GQ, anything the communists are work toward/for, the democrats are right there, side-by-side, shoulder-to-shoulder pursuing the identical agenda, and visa-versa. For the few years that I have been reading the communist propaganda I have been unable to discern any significant difference between the Communist party and the Democrat party. Either the Communists werent what I had thought they were or the Democrat party has sunk into the toilet. Either way, does matter, the two parties are politically one in the same.

POINTER94 · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Rolmops, I must be missing something Your said: Good going pointer,except that yours was the communist interpretation of synthesis and antisynthesis.Remove the class struggle part of the crises theory and you end up with social democratic ideas. I order for there to be a true democracy in America,there needs to be a counter weight against companies like Enron.Without an antithesis,there would be no synthesis and the thesis would always win. _______________________________________________________________________ Now in order to have synthesis, you need Thesis and Antithesis. Therefor by definition, you need to have big oil, enron, big auto, big plastic? They represent the thesis, and the working and lower class's represent the antithesis. Isn't this the class struggle you indicated doesn't exist? Wouldn't a graduated tax schedule show a class stuggle? It is redistribution of wealth. And isn't the ongoing class stuggle what actually created the downfall of the Soviet Union? They required militant actions to keep the masses in order. Communism just doesn't work. And although I didn't see anything about this "crisis theory" you aluded to in your second post, even its conclusion in your own words is socialism. But we don't live is a socialistic country. I guess we can conclude that the crisis is to occur spontaneously based on Marx's model regardless of what system anyone lives under? What exactly are you trying to say or point out? Without your later qualifier you seemed to have used Marx to justify --- not Marx??? Please follow this up, so I can better understand. You seem to have a handle on this topic and I would benefit from your remarks. I. NATURE A. COOPERATION: PRODUCTION FOR USE B. SUBSISTENCE: WORK AND PLAY C. ALIENATION: OWNERSHIP CONTRADICTION D. EXPLOITATION: SURPLUS VALUE E. FRAGMENTATION: SOCIAL CLASSES CONFLICT II. DIALECTICAL MATERIALISM A. DIALECTICS: THESIS, ANTITHESIS B. MATERIALISM: ECONOMIC BASIS C. SYNTHESIS: HISTORICAL INEVITABILITY D. DYNAMIC CHANGE: CLASS STRUGGLE III. SOCIALISM A. PUBLIC OWNERSHIP B. LABOR UNIONS C. GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION B. VIOLENT REVOLUTION IV. COMMUNISM -FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED Have we sunk so far that it is acceptable for Hillary to quote the father of communism and not called on it?

JB · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

I think it is the nature of our species to be both cooperative and competitive. Socialism suppresses competition (and creativity with it) in favor of cooperation. Enterpreurism suppresses cooperation in favor of competition. A capitalist (individuals own assets and compete in a free market) republic of democratic units is the best package in the history of civilization. Churchill described it as a terrible form of government. . . except for all the others. No form of government is perfect for everybody, and every form is imperfect in some ways for everybody. That's what we are fighting about. Which imperfections we will have and which we will not.

artburr · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Hey rabid. Quote: "Trying to get amnesty for the illegal aliens, just like the democrats. - The communists are critical of Bush for not having an exit strategy, want the US out of - Iraq, just like the democrats. - The communists want more controls over Israel to facilitate a Palestinian state, just like the democrats. - The communists want better mine safety for miners, juts like the democrats. - The communists want to increase the min wage, just like the democrats. - The communists want universal healthcare for everyone, just like the democrats. - The communists want Democrats elected in 2006/08, just like the democrats. - The communists are opposed to any/all tax rebates, just like the democrats." So anyone that advocates all or most of these things is a communist? Wouldn't that make an awful lot of Americans communists? Sounds just like that nut Joe McCarthy to me.

rolmops · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

maybe rabid is a closet communist??

txswinner · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

1. I thought W said amnesty has he joined the D's if so I will be a staunch R. 2. Exit strategy W once had one guess he lost it. His Dad said he got out of Iraq because it was the exit strategy, is Big George a Democrat? 3. Did not know D's wanted control of Israel, as for me I do not care about Israel, but if you say so. 4. Hell no, miners deserve to have to work under extreme danger just like any other working class person, so one or two get killed. this is the stupidist thing I have read on iboats, EVER. 5. Increase minimum wage, if you think unions are communist guess you are correct although they are not. 6. Universal Health care or any health care for the poor is totally unacceptable. It is coming as the medical communities greed is driving them out of business. 7. Communist for D's I think is another moment of ignorance comming out in print. 8. Tax rebates with major value to the rich is actually what is opposed but why would you understand that. I thought we had recognized the ignorance of McCarthy and if you missed out that is sad for you. These remarks are unbelievable to me that anyone is convinced they are true.

txswinner · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

and all this over the death of Lloyd Bentsen, surely you are not calling him a communist but I assume nothing with some of you.

--GQ-- · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Well, it's dark outside so here I am. Yeah the little faint star on the out-skirt of the Constellation. Hmm-mm darn-it 18, you're a DJ as-well? Your ability to "SPIN" is off the chart. Are you using vinyl or CD? All this time I've been playing half a deck of cards. Cheaters never win. You'll see. I was in the garage awhile ago looking for a can of Sex Wax. Wooooh hold the "poof" buttons Mods. A Sex Wax is a type of ointment used to coat the surface of a surfboard. Anyhow as I was saying; while digging through an empty garage, I found a 5 pounds Sledge Hammer. Thought it would be useful in this debate. You hold the nail and don't look up. Shall we hammer away our differences? Regarding State licensing: 1) To qualify, you must be a Citizen or perminat resident of the United States. Social Security #s and all form of government Ids will be recorded and checked. And of-course 8000 hours of hands on experience in conjunction with classroom training. Illegal immigrants don't have SS cards or current Government IDs. Hint the term "illegal". At least not a legit one that can be verified by the State. If you limit a person ability to make ends meet by restricting employment, illegal immigrant seize to exist. Harsh but reality. Illegal immigration is a problem everyone agrees on. Democrats, Republicans, Greens, Apples, Oranges alike. If you see the solution as a communistic agenda, then all the Parties listed above are Communists. 2) The IBEW and the national Electrical Contractors Association agreed many boat trips ago that the 8 hours work day was, is and will be the standard. As said, the current Administration tried to break this bond by attempting to pull a miracle out a hat, but out come 18rabid. Not the intended outcome. A far as I can remember, California is a Democracy. In a Democratic society, parties are allowed to negotiate business deals free of government intervention as long as the nature of any deal deal doesn't infringe on the U.S. Constitutions. Can you tell me what Communist Party at play here? No cheap shot here. Just stating the fact. i report. You decide. Rabid, Rabid, Rabid, the music changed, but you're still doing the Turkey Trot". Sometime ya gotta wake up to reality and remove yourself from propagandistic nightmares and face the music.

--GQ-- · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by JB: I think it is the nature of our species to be both cooperative and competitive. Socialism suppresses competition (and creativity with it) in favor of cooperation. Enterpreurism suppresses cooperation in favor of competition. A capitalist (individuals own assets and compete in a free market) republic of democratic units is the best package in the history of civilization. Churchill described it as a terrible form of government. . . except for all the others. No form of government is perfect for everybody, and every form is imperfect in some ways for everybody. That's what we are fighting about. Which imperfections we will have and which we will not.

Dr. JB, can we debate this topic? On second thought you have an advantage with the "poof" button. Ill back down. Just kidding. Full speed ahead. All roads lead to Heaven...

--GQ-- · May 30, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Oh one more thing 18rabid, I have a tendency to jump straight to the reply button without fully reading the entire post. At the first sight of a wrong I look for truth. You said something about amnesty. Huh? What the H, I, J ........oooh yeah you are a Disk Jockey so spin away. Today we learn how to do the "Spin". Tomorrow we will attempt the "Lie". Like I said keep posting. I appreciate the dance.

PW2 · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

What a silly argument. Marx's theory was based on a utopian model. That assumes perfectability of the populace, which of course can't happen, as long as we have people, and human nature involved. That is why any specific idealogy, political or economic, must of a necessity, be flawed. The best we can hope for is a workable compromise, which is of course why differing opinions, and healthy differences in political parties, is important. And why single party rule, as we have had in the last few years, can lead to disasterous consequences. Politicians, of either party, are not required to adhere to any specific party doctrine, or shouldn't be. A lot of things some dems say I can agree with; some make me cringe...And I can say the same about Repubs... The ideal would be a compromise, like a bell curve.

18rabbit · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by --GQ--: Can you tell me what Communist Party at play here?

GQ, with or without the Sex Wax, Im confused. You seem to have commingled the issues of certifying electricians with illegal immigration. Not sure how mixing up the two are relative to the similarities between the democrats and the communists. But you have a good point about getting away from where we were Where were we?!? Oh yes, the question none of the democrats/communist (same thing, no difference) on the forum can or will answer: What is the political difference between the Democratic Party (DNC) and the Communist Party USA TODAY??? So that we are on the same page, this is the Communist party and Democrat party I am referring to: The Communist Party USA 235 W. 23rd Street New York, NY 10011 Phone: 212 989-4994 http://www.cpusa.org/ The Democratic Party (DNC) 430 S. Capitol St. SE Washington, DC 20003 Phone: 202-863-8000 http://www.democrats.org/ I claim there is no significant difference between those two political parties. But I could be wrong and if I am Im sure someone as proficient with Sex Wax as you are is just the person to set me straight. So, please I am begging for an answer to that question, whats the diff between the two political parties? Serious question on the side: I know what Sex Wax is but I dont surf. Im ignorant, is it slippery or sticky? Does it go on the top of the board (sticky) or bottom of the board (slippery)? Or does it claim to be all things for all people, like the democrats/communist (same thing, no difference) do; does it go on both the top and the bottom of the board?

18rabbit · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by Art B: So anyone that advocates all or most of these things is a communist? Wouldn't that make an awful lot of Americans communists? Sounds just like that nut Joe McCarthy to me.

You might want to take a step back and investigate what a communist is today. If you are a democrat you may find you align more with that political party than you were aware of. Fwiw, your statement about McCarty is a textbook example of McCarthyism. With little if any proof of his charges, McCarthy relied on accusation, slander and innuendo to tarnish his opponents' reputations (a practice now known as "McCarthyism").

artburr · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Rabid, it is obvious that you feel that because the DNC and CPUSA agree on some things that one equals the other. Rediculous.

18rabbit · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by Art B: Rabid, it is obvious that you feel that because the DNC and CPUSA agree on some things that one equals the other. Rediculous.

Out of context, but now on the hook. Hey, there!!! We have another one on the hook! Art B will spin, Art B will pull, Art B will flip and Art B will flop, but Art B cant get away. All Art B can possibly do is the common and well used liberal maneuver of tuck-tail-and-run or answer the question: So, were back at the question none of the democrats/communist (same thing, no difference) on the forum can or will answer: What is the political difference between the Democratic Party (DNC) and the Communist Party USA TODAY??? Art B is on the hook!!! Is he educated? Is he a liberal? Or is he both?!? Lets see, will Art B tuck-tail-and-run, or will he answer the question? Art B, were waiting...

artburr · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Got better things to do. My wife just poured the Martinis.

PW2 · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

For someone whose hero has an overall approval rating in the polls of 30 percent and falling, you're attacks on the political opposition are a bit presumptuous, don't you think? If you guys would spend a quarter of the time trying to figure out how to govern rather than spending time trying to belittle your opposition and whining about being helpless victims of the media, we'd all be better off.

rolmops · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by POINTER94: Rolmops, I must be missing something Your said: Good going pointer,except that yours was the communist interpretation of synthesis and antisynthesis.Remove the class struggle part of the crises theory and you end up with social democratic ideas. I order for there to be a true democracy in America,there needs to be a counter weight against companies like Enron.Without an antithesis,there would be no synthesis and the thesis would always win. _______________________________________________________________________ Now in order to have synthesis, you need Thesis and Antithesis. Therefor by definition, you need to have big oil, enron, big auto, big plastic? They represent the thesis, and the working and lower class's represent the antithesis. Isn't this the class struggle you indicated doesn't exist? Wouldn't a graduated tax schedule show a class stuggle? It is redistribution of wealth. And isn't the ongoing class stuggle what actually created the downfall of the Soviet Union? They required militant actions to keep the masses in order. Communism just doesn't work. And although I didn't see anything about this "crisis theory" you aluded to in your second post, even its conclusion in your own words is socialism. But we don't live is a socialistic country. I guess we can conclude that the crisis is to occur spontaneously based on Marx's model regardless of what system anyone lives under? What exactly are you trying to say or point out? Without your later qualifier you seemed to have used Marx to justify --- not Marx??? Please follow this up, so I can better understand. You seem to have a handle on this topic and I would benefit from your remarks. I. NATURE A. COOPERATION: PRODUCTION FOR USE B. SUBSISTENCE: WORK AND PLAY C. ALIENATION: OWNERSHIP CONTRADICTION D. EXPLOITATION: SURPLUS VALUE E. FRAGMENTATION: SOCIAL CLASSES CONFLICT II. DIALECTICAL MATERIALISM A. DIALECTICS: THESIS, ANTITHESIS B. MATERIALISM: ECONOMIC BASIS C. SYNTHESIS: HISTORICAL INEVITABILITY D. DYNAMIC CHANGE: CLASS STRUGGLE III. SOCIALISM A. PUBLIC OWNERSHIP B. LABOR UNIONS C. GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION B. VIOLENT REVOLUTION IV. COMMUNISM -FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED Have we sunk so far that it is acceptable for Hillary to quote the father of communism and not called on it?

The father of communism was a dirt poor father of seven who had to write in the library of the british national museum in London,because he had no room at home.When he wrote "Das Kapital" he did not have a pot to p1ss in. The theory you wrote down in a nutshell never made it into reality.Russia only made it to the socialist stage and China skipped straight to the communist stage and dropped it like a hot potatoe. The crises theory as you described was abandonded by the neo marxist philosopher Herbert Marcuse (A teacher of Angela Davis) and existentialists like Sartre. The reason why, was the constant compromise being made between the 2 opposing groups.Alienation did no longer take place between owners and workers,but between the party machine and the people.The world revolution failed because the masses wished to maintain their religion and their national identity and freedom.In western Europe groups of religious workers organized trade unions that embraced both socialist ideas and democratic values.These groups changed the reality of the socialist crises theory using the idea, to reach compromise within the independent countries,while at the same time respecting the other side.In some cases it was unbalanced,like England in the sixties with very aggressive progressive taxes that went up to 95%.Thatcher put an end to that. Personally I like to compare this all to the evolutionary ideas where competition and survival of the fittest seem to rule.Except in herd animals where social structure strengthens the group and the weaker ones enjoy the protection of the group and thereby the group reproduces more and as a group is more succesful. (I will probably have to edit this post because my thoughts are not quite clear at this point.) 18rabbit,the differences between the democratic party and the american communist party,are all the communist manifestos which are not at all simular to the democratic ideas and which you took care not to mention when you made the comparison.Using your selective type of logic,it would be easy to prove that the democratic party and the republicans are the same and while we are at it,that the world is flat. I think that you are just a different type of troll maker who tries to goad people on for your personal entertainment.

--GQ-- · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Goes on top. The side you stand on. The idea is to keep you on the surfboard with the added traction. Beyond the silliness, in your first statement you said and I quote, "Democrats=Communists, same thing". I only need one contradicting fact and your statement is toasted. And I did. In fact several contradicting statements, but you failed to see the light. In addition I posted an example how this administration attempted to eliminate the 8 hours work day; an agreement made between two parties through a DEMOCRATIC process, but you failed to understand that point as-well. Then you said something about DEMOCRATS granting amnesty to illegal immigrants. So I rebutted that statement by saying, "Illegal immigration is a problem for all American. Democrats, Republicans, Greens, Apples, Oranges alike". In addition to explaining how the State Licensing discourage illegal immigration by preventing employment. Of-course you failed to see this also. Let see if I can clear this up. In-short, all parties agree on the illegal immigration issue, but in your opinion only the Democrats are Communists. Selective reasoning I must say. Then further down the post, after a bit of stone throwing, you changed your original statement to, "there are no significant differences between Democrats and Communists". So there are differences, but not significant enough in your opinion. The same opinion you made about "Democrats=Communists". Now I am totally lost. Either you are pregnant or you're not. No such thing as not significantly pregnant. You get my drift

--GQ-- · May 31, 2006

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

The bottom line is whether the Democratic Party is a Communist or not will not affect me by all means. It will not hurt my bank account or my ability to make ends meet. However you opinion is false, bias, and misleading to Joe Public. You do realize there are people out there clueless about politic. Myself included.

Lloyd Bentsen

Captain

Vice Admiral

Honorary Moderator Emeritus

Petty Officer 1st Class

Vice Admiral

Banned

Banned

Chief Petty Officer

Chief Petty Officer

Chief Petty Officer

Commander

Captain

Captain

Petty Officer 1st Class

Captain

Petty Officer 1st Class

Commander

Vice Admiral

Chief Petty Officer

Chief Petty Officer