Lloyd Bentsen

[rolmops]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Screaming in a rabid way neither shows intelligence ,nor good manners<br />18,in your opinion I would fail unless I agree with you.that is not going to happen.<br />The ideals of socialism are obviously the same as most humanitarian ideals.That is their very nature.In fact very many of these condemned "communist"ideas come straight out of the acts of the very first christian communities.You see,the idea of sharing and compassion is far older than 18th century ideologies.They picked up on these ideas because they are good human values.<br />The democratic party is firmly based on social democratic ideas based within a capitalist society.If it was the same as the communist party,there would not be a communist party in America.Last I checked,there is such a thing and they would feel deeply insulted if you compared them to that capitalist democratic party.<br />In order for there to be a true democracy in America,there needs to be a counter weight against companies like Enron.Without an antithesis,there would be no synthesis and the thesis would always win.<br />as far as your very black and white little equasions are concerned.Following your logic Jesus was a communist.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Rolmops, your (un)interesting blather aside, YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION!!!<br /><br />Let’s try one more time. Please, try and stay focused. Ready? Here we go …<br /><br />What is the difference between the Democrat party and the Communist party TODAY???

 

[rolmops]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

I'm done wasting my time on you.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Wow, 18 you are really out there. The Democrats have lead this country for many years through many eras, non of which lead us to a communististic society. Your view of the party is so blind that any explaination would be beyond your capabilities.<br /><br />Unlike a failure to respond to what has W done right for America, I shall try to give some evidence of a difference between the Democratic party and communism.<br /><br />1. First we support taxation based on representation of the people not one based on the greed and wealth of large corporations.<br /><br />2. We lean toward the belief of States rights over the Republican attitude of a federal power governing the people. ie. W administration supports federal administration of property and casualty insurance with a national governing body instead of by states. ie. Administration supports a federal torts standard rather than controled by the States. ie. Administration supports control of State National Guard under direction of the federal government rather than a state militia, ie. W administration (Republican platform) wishes for issue of death penalty and abortion be controled by federal government rather than by states as intended in the Constitution. Basically, the Republican party leans to a federal government control rather than states.<br /><br />In stating this, I by no means belief nor am trying to state that Republicans are centralist which is a common philosophy of communism but rather have a different point of view as to the relationship between the people, the states and the federal government.<br /><br />Also when a communist party exist, it has no leeway for any other party to exist and is based on the concept that no other ideals can exist at the same time. This is but one of the reasons it fails. Saddly, the same tends to occur in a Republic when one party takes of its system and thereby smothers the needs, thoughts, and wants of the people. Careful 18 you may get what you want in one party and that usually leads to no freedom except as permitted by those in power, by whatever name they call themselves.<br /><br />For those of liberal thought, we must remember without decent then no thought and therefore no freedom can exist. To surrender liberty for security is wrong!!!

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED. - Hillary Clinton<br /><br /><br />Quote Rolmops:<br /><br />I order for there to be a true democracy in America,there needs to be a counter weight against companies like Enron.Without an antithesis,there would be no synthesis and the thesis would always win.<br /><br />Paraphrase Marx (C&P):<br /><br />According to Marx, all history can be explained by the conflict between opposing forces, thesis and antithesis. Out of this conflict change emerges through synthesis. Marx contended that the direction of social change is determined by such concrete things as machinery This philosophy of the inevitability of change resulting from the struggle of opposites and determined by concrete realities rather than ideas is called dialectical materialism. It is the basic philosophy of communism.<br /><br />This synthesis in turn created two new contending forces: the capitalist class or bourgeoisie, which owns the means of production, and the wage workers or proletariat class, which has to sell its labor to survive.<br /><br />Marx seized on the labor theory of value to explain why labor is the source of all surplus value (profit) which is appropriated by the capitalists and invested in more machinery. This increasing accumulation of capital equipment, according to Marx, results in increasing output with a smaller labor force. As a result, the workers do not have enough purchasing power to remove from the market all of the goods produced by the increasing stock of capital, and cyclical depressions of increasing severity will eventually lead to a revolution.<br /><br />source: http://teacherweb.ftl.pinecrest.edu/crawfor/apcg/Unit1marx.htm <br /><br />Isn't this exactly what the democrats are doing with their "Big Oil" and "The Rich" drumbeat night after night. Creating class envy and forwarding the tennents of Communism as our only solution? The democrats are doing exactly what Marx outlined. Creating (false) dichotomies with government as the only solution?

 

[txswinner]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Pointer uses Marx to support his point of view, this is interesting that you would review his beliefs enough to find such a quote. Did you really read this or get it from one of the great talk show host, seems my friend mentioned the same quote to me last week. Hmmmmmmm.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

18, me wonders, do you consider the present democrats to be Marxist or Stalinist communist, or just communist or perhaps your newly invented communist, Democratic Communist? Such a scholarly fellow ye be.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

txswinner,<br /><br />Try reading "The Art of War". It's a book. It speaks about knowing your adversary. Look under Sun Tzu. But by all means don't address the content of the post, just try and marginalize where you think the information is derrived. You of course, are wrong, but what's else is new.<br /><br />How else would one be able to draw a parallel between democrats and communists without knowing something about both? Who would you quote? <br /><br />Not going to take a try at 18rabids challenge at identifying the difference between the two eh?

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Shhhhhhh. Be wavy wavy quiet. I think we got a fat Wabbit in here. <br /><br />To make such a bold statement and call everyone out to prove it wrong is idiotic at best. Your attempt to throw the two parties into the same basket to justify your, I can only assume, communistic tendency is ill-fated. Obviously you don't have a complete understanding of the subject. "Google like bullsh*t will get you high, but it won't keep you up there for long". I suggest you use multiple means of research. Here some carrots to chew on.<br /><br />1) A person ideology dictates his day to day agendas. Specially true when dealing with politics. You can not separate the two. You start with a plan then proceed to the project. Of-course I do realize you are attempting to solidify your opinion, making it harder to prove by ignoring that fact. At least you think.<br /><br />2) Communists believe in order to achieve social equality, all goods, services and the means to produce goods should be communally owned but controlled by the government. The government decides what, when, where, why and how. No privatization. No Entrepreneurship. Only a working class. In such countries, the Communists are the subject and the working class is the object. Their day to day agendas DOES NOT include the object as part of the thinking process. The people do not have a say in anything. This is a contradiction to Democrats agendas.<br /><br />Democrats believe in order to achieve social equality, promote negotiation between Employees and Employers to come to an agreement where everyone is happy. Their day to day agendas include directing resources to where it is needed to combat anticipated problems in the future without taking control of businesses or the people preserving Privatization and Entrepreneurship. A major difference to communists ideas. Democrats are the Subject as well as the Object through the voting system. <br /><br />All Political parties have similar agendas. And that is to ensure the prosperity of the people. If you look at one aspect, they all are the same. However their ideology, the route they take are different, thus the daily agendas are not the same. A does not equal to C and C does not equal to B. Therefore A does not equal to B. Consider yourself educated.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> 18, me wonders, do you consider the present democrats to be ...

I think that sometime during the night when no one was looking the Communist party moved a little to the right and the Democrat party moved a little more to the left such that the two now occupy the same space. I have been reading the Communist party propaganda for a few years. It is exactly the same as what you hear from the Democrat spokes-mouths on the various news programs and talk shows. Identical!<br /><br />If it makes any Democrats (aka communists, same thing) feel better about themselves, it does not appear as tho the Communist party in America advocates true communism...yet.<br /><br />That’s why I am kind of belligerent about demanding a difference between the two parties. I’m confident there is no significant difference. I’ve been looking, can’t find it.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by --GQ--:<br /> Shhhhhhh. Be wavy wavy quiet. I think we got a fat Wabbit in here.

Ok, we got GQ is on the hook!!! HERE WE GOOOOooooooooo!<br /><br />Not talking ideology; only talking about the political entities and their activities, day-to-day agendas, press releases, etc...<br /><br />GQ – What is the difference between the Democrat party and the Communist party TODAY???<br /><br />

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> I'm done wasting my time on you.

Hmmm, it appears that The rose is still a rose!<br />No new info to classify it anyother way.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Man you didn't read my post did you. In short, in a Democratic party, you have a right to vote. You have a right to voice your opinions in public. This is not true for the Communist party. If you voice your opinions against the ruling 'families" in public, you will never be seen in public again ever. <br /><br />Dude need I write a book to explain this? Im out! The waves are calling.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by txswinner:<br />Unlike a failure to respond to what has W done right for America, I shall try to give some evidence of a difference between the Democratic party and communism.

We’re not talking about W. And the Democrat party is a political entity, while communism is an ideology. You cannot comparing them. I was clear; I don’t want/need the difference in ideology between the two parties. Those ideological differences are a chiasm that can never be bridged.<br /><br />I’m talking about real life; the day-to-day activities, the day-to-day politics and policies of the two parties, what they say to the press, what they say to their party members, their propaganda, etc... Today, the Democrat party’s activities and agenda, and the Communist party’s activities and agenda are the same. In America TODAY the two parties are very much on the same page. In fact, the Communist party often encourages its members to vote a straight Democrat ticket.<br /><br />Txswinner, if you have the time and are up for a good read on the history of global politics, snag a copy of Carroll Quiggley’s ‘Tragedy and Hope – A History of The World In Our Time’. Quiggley was an Ivy League sociology professor and a (pre-communist ) Democrat, and not ironically the person that wrote the letter for Clinton to get into Rhodes. The book is 1300 pages, will set you back about $45, but it will also open your eyes to US politics in a global context. You'll see it in a whole diff way.<br /><br />I have been saying, Democrats = Communists, no difference. But I have also said in the past that you can vote Democrat or Republican and get the same thing because there isn’t a dime’s difference between the two once in office. I think this is what Quiggley was talking/warning about, the two parties acting as one. You mentioned about being careful about getting what I wished for, a one party system ... I think we are pretty much there already.<br /><br />Personally, I don’t care what party is elected into office as long as they will uphold the Constitution. That’s where I am having a problem; neither party seems to give a damn about that piece of parchment the way I would like them to/need them to.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Good going pointer,except that yours was the communist interpretation of synthesis and antisynthesis.Remove the class struggle part of the crises theory and you end up with social democratic ideas.The ones that western european political parties adhere to.The American democratic party is in strong support of private initiative and private enterprise.These are not encouraged in any communist system.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Originally posted by --GQ--:<br /> Man you didn't read my post did you.

Yes, I read your post. I think we are talking in diff directions. When I see Communist with a cap “C” it is a political entity, the political party. When I see communist with a little “c” it is the ideology of Marx, Stalin, etc but not the political party. Same for Democrat (the political party) and democrat (someone with democratic ideals). You cannot compare ideology to a political party. They are not necessary the same; i.e. the Communist party is not necessarily supporting a true or classic communist agenda.<br /><br />When you get out of the waves, please go back and re-read the question. It is abundantly clear! Note the use of the cap “C” and cap “D” and the word “party” so you don’t confuse the political entity was the political ideology. Then, please answer the question, if you can.

 

[artburr]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

Republicans are generally considered Conservative and Democrats Liberal. The dictionary definition of each, in brief is: <br /><br />"Conservatism, a general state of mind that is averse to rapid change and innovation and strives for balance and order, while avoiding extremes..... conservatism emphasizes the merits of the status quo and endorses the prevailing distribution of power, wealth, and social standing." <br /><br /><br />"Liberalism, attitude, philosophy, or movement that has as its basic concern the development of personal freedom and social progress. Liberalism and democracy are now usually thought to have common aims..."<br /><br />In politics, these terms have consideral overlap - thus we have Democrats that display fiscal conservatism and Republicans that do not. We have both Republican and Democrats who are "hawks" and some members of each party who are "doves".<br /><br />Now some seek to equate Democrats with Communism or Socialism. Sayeth the dictionary:<br /><br />"Communism as a political movement, sought (seeks) to overthrow capitalism through a workers’ revolution and establish a system in which property is owned by the community as a whole rather than by individuals."<br /><br />"The socialist doctrine demands state ownership and control of the fundamental means of production and distribution of wealth, to be achieved by reconstruction of the existing capitalist or other political system of a country through peaceful, democratic, and parliamentary means."<br /><br />I don't think that either of these terms accurately reflects the Democratic Party. In fact, in most fundamental ways, there simply isn't that much difference between the two parties.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

You're right, I'm wrong. Ah, forget the Democrats...let’s just take a look at what the commies are up to:<br /><br />From the 2006 Election Strategy of the Communist Party USA:<br /><br />Political analysts contend that based on individual races, it is a long shot to expect that the Democrats can win 15 more seats in the House and 6 more seats in the Senate for a majority in Congress. However, the shifts in the country show the potential for an upsurge. The question for us is how to help bring that upsurge into life?<br /><br />blah-blah-blah<br /><br />With a Democratic majority in Congress, John Conyers would chair the Judiciary Committee. He would bring forward his bills for impeachment, and reauthorization and expansion of the Voting Rights Act. Sheila Jackson-Lee would chair the Immigration Subcommittee. She is author of the best immigration bill. Charles Rangel would chair the Ways and Means Committee. Medicare for All and Katrina relief would be considered. George Miller would chair the Education and the Workforce Committee. The Employee Free Choice Act could come to vote, and the Congressional attack on public education could be shelved. <br /><br />Six new seats in the Senate and 15 new seats in the House must be won to break the Republican grip.<br /><br />------<br /><br />What’s this!?! The commies are strategizing to get Democrats elected?!?<br /><br />I’ll say it again … THERE AIN’T NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE COMMUNISTS AND THE DEMOCRATS!!!<br /><br />Anyone that cares can read the whole Communist Party USA article/thing at their party website:<br /><br /> http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/747/1/133/

 

[artburr]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

If anything causes the success of Democrats in the next election, it will be the actions and policies of the current administration which are now rejected by about 70% of the American public. The Democrats don't need the Communists.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Lloyd Bentsen

18rabid, I consider you one of the brighter stars in the Iboats Constellation. But recently a massive asteroid seems to be blocking your light. Hang in there it will pass you by.<br /><br />You made a point but failed to back it up with facts and or examples. Not the kind of format I'm used to. Now you want me to to give you an example to prove you wrong when you can not prove yourself right. Hmmm I see a politician in the making. 18rabid for 08. <br /><br />So you want a specific detail huh. See below.<br /><br />1) For the last decade, union electrical jobs here in California was on a downslide mainly due to illegal immigration. The endless supply of cheap labors brought on the rise of non-union Electrical Contractors. Their higher profit margin allowed them to constantly under bid their union counterpart. Recognizing the problem, Union Officials and democrats at the State capitol lobbied and a law was passed requiring all Journeyman Electrician working in California to carry a state issued Electrical License and Apprentices to be enrolled in a training institute recognized by the College and University System thus ensuring an endless supply of skilled craftsmen as-well as to deter illegal labor force. Two birds with one stone. Another Democrats Agendas. Darn it.<br /><br />2) Through the power of unity, the IBEW and the Electrical Contractors Association were able to iron out some rules regarding overtime and holidaye. In addition, an 8 hours work day was mandated. Recently the current Administration introduced a 40 hours work week. It would have been a major setback if it wasn't for the Democrats involved. Hint Democrats agendas at work again. Double darn it.<br /><br />Any Communistic agendas at work here? <br /><br />OK I admit, unlike you I am not one of the brighter stars here, but when it’s dark enough outside, I do shine. Keep posting. One of these days one of us will become a scholar based on informations gathered on the Forum. Remember me when you get there.