Living off the grid

[nwcove]

Re: Living off the grid

I have been posting real world experience in doing this!

...and the only real world info given thus far. but....still not sure if the op wants to save money or save the planet? hard to compare your locale to the op's as far as what will work best. jmo

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Living off the grid

there are numerous forums that will give you "real" world experiences on this topic for your needs/wants at your latitude.

I agree. You need many more people's opinions who have done this.

 

[QC]

Re: Living off the grid

Be careful QC, or you'll become sterile.

I thought it could make you go blind?

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Living off the grid

I agree. You need many more people's opinions who have done this.

Bruce, there is just not that many people who have done this, it is not the norm, it is a very unique situation, if you are looking for the hard core guys, this is not the place to find it.

Personally, I think the OP is nuts, it is not easy to do and for the most part, it will not save you money, I have extra money to waste, not many do.

That said, I do understand wanting to be independent, that is a very strong drive, unfortunately, for most it is not an option.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Living off the grid

...and the only real world info given thus far. but....still not sure if the op wants to save money or save the planet? hard to compare your locale to the op's as far as what will work best. jmo

I am sure, it would be less expensive where he is located, than where I am, but I don't know that is the most important issue here. Based on the postings today, I suspect, he is investigating and will not be doing this any time soon.

I can tell you from experience, unless you can generate hydro, you will not save money,

But I am a old retired guy, that has the money as well as the time to play with these things.

 

[Gyrene]

Re: Living off the grid

The gizmo is called a Peltier device. They are usually used in cheap iceboxes or fridges. Very inefficient. I made a fishtank cooler for a friend of mine with one of those.

Sorry, super nerd here. I believe a peltier device is, as you noted, a device that can cool with no moving parts - but it consumes electricity, does not produce it. A thermocouple, a junction of 2 different metals, can produce electricity when it is heated. That is what powers the stove fan.
Both are inefficient, but when the heat is "free", a thermocouple can make sense.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Living off the grid

Sorry, super nerd here. I believe a peltier device is, as you noted, a device that can cool with no moving parts - but it consumes electricity, does not produce it.

It produces as well. Just make one side hot and one side cold.

Stove fan uses the peltier cooler.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Living off the grid

My BIL looked into solar. He had 2 guys come out and evaluate the situation. He was a prime candidate because of his home construction and exposure but the 15 year payoff wasn't going to work for his situation.

For short term power it's pretty hard to beat a propane powered back up generator.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Living off the grid

BIL went the solar panel route along with geothermal heat source. Local electric company would not let him ON the grid for back-up without a switch to cut him off the grid when power went down on the grid ... didn't want to backfeed the grid and electrocute a lineman. That was expensive. Didn't need much in the way of batteries because they put a meter that would back feed also, enabling him to "sell" power to the utility. So he sold (at a lower rate) power in the day and bought power at night with small batteries to cover when the grid went down. During the summer he builds credit and uses that in the winter. On average he probably pays about $40 per month for heat, A/C, and all his other electrical needs. However, the cost of the unit AND the geothermal was pretty expensive and he will be paying off the loan for a number of years yet ...

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Living off the grid

From what I had read I have a real advantage living here. According to what I have read I have an average of 4.5 "clean" hours overall year round. Not much on wind. I really like the idea of a $20 electric bill. I live right on the water and my air or heat is off 8 months of the year for the most part. We eat off the grill 4-5 nights a week because that's the way real crackers were brought up and its nice being outside in 75 degrees. I need a clothes dryer and a stove. Hot water is not a big deal as I can have a solar or use the grid.

I am not talking about changing our lifestyle. Just being more independent and safer.

Kahuna, your electric bill will never be $20 in Florida. even if you actually did not use a single kilowatt, your bill would still be about $30 just to cover all the overhead from the utility.

As stated by many, living off grid wont really save you money, make you more independent, and the safer is a debate all in its own. running a genny is less efficient than simply buying power. Solar panels work to some extent, however the inverters to make 110VAC are not that efficient either.

I have friends that live as close to "off the grid" as you can. they live on a boat, have a bank of solar panels and a wind generator along with the oversized alternator on the diesel. However they still rent a slip, and its mandatory for them to have electric with power. their utility bill is $70 per month. Their total necessities are about $950 per month (storage, slip rental, utilities, PO box, insurance, etc). However for about 6 months every other year, they live on the hook and are "off the grid" in the bahamas

Since you live on the water, your utilities are already less than those of us that live a bit further inland where we do not get the temperature stabilization. I live in an electric only subdivision as well. the next house will be where there is natural gas with 100% LED lighting

 

[avenger79]

Re: Living off the grid

BIL went the solar panel route along with geothermal heat source. Local electric company would not let him ON the grid for back-up without a switch to cut him off the grid when power went down on the grid ... didn't want to backfeed the grid and electrocute a lineman. That was expensive. Didn't need much in the way of batteries because they put a meter that would back feed also, enabling him to "sell" power to the utility. So he sold (at a lower rate) power in the day and bought power at night with small batteries to cover when the grid went down. During the summer he builds credit and uses that in the winter. On average he probably pays about $40 per month for heat, A/C, and all his other electrical needs. However, the cost of the unit AND the geothermal was pretty expensive and he will be paying off the loan for a number of years yet ...

even folks runnning backup generators are normally required to have a transfer switch. normally they are not that expensive, usually under a grand.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Living off the grid

Yea I am a nerd so to speak. I have my two year degree in EE. I do understand this stuff. But practical applications and the drawing something out on paper are two different things. My idea is more independence. The same thing when I bought my Scion XB. People laughed then they aren't laughing at it now with gas at $3.65. If we turn to natural gas for our plants it will really help. Coal is going away and nuclear is never gonna happen again. I see a constant cost now versus cost that are sure to rise on the future that could really affect the ROI. And yes a transfer switch is required. Last thing you want to do is energize a line by accident.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Living off the grid

I have my two year degree in EE.

Out of curiosity, what is a 2 year degree in EE?

My thoughts on solar, the only reason its even close to having a positive ROI is the tax rebates. The technology isn't there yet. Maybe 10 years from now it might be. If you don't have power outages or live in some remote are like MTBoatguy, I don't see the attractiveness of it right now. Rather than sink a lot of money in it now, wait 10 years.

 

[rbh]

Re: Living off the grid

OP-
When hurricanes and storms hit and take the power out how fast till its restored?

 

[bigdee]

Re: Living off the grid

even folks runnning backup generators are normally required to have a transfer switch. normally they are not that expensive, usually under a grand.

Around $100 for a 100 amp manual transfer switch...minus installation.

 

[dwco5051]

Re: Living off the grid

I have neighbors and friends who live off the grid for religious reasons and see many different ways to supply power for their farms or business. Many of the homes have outdoor wood fired boilers and they use solar cells to supply power for the pumps, blowers, and control systems. Most also have generators that are used to charge the batteries and also supply compressed air for their well pumps. Having worked with them repairing and doing maintenance I have found the cost is far more than if they were hooked up to power.

Was just over the other day at a friend's business that is a combination farm supply, machinery repair shop, and complete iron working shop. All his equipment is hydraulic powered with a 220 hp Cummins driving the pump for among other things a large press brake, metal lathe, shears, rollers, drill press and milling machine. Power generated on a small scale can not be as efficient as the power made by the utilities. Hopefully new innovations will change that but today if you life cycle the actual cost it is still cheaper to buy your electric.

Are you ready to ask your spouse to make all your clothes on a treadle sewing machine?

 

[bigdee]

Re: Living off the grid

I have neighbors and friends who live off the grid for religious reasons and see many different ways to supply power for their farms or business. Many of the homes have outdoor wood fired boilers and they use solar cells to supply power for the pumps, blowers, and control systems. Most also have generators that are used to charge the batteries and also supply compressed air for their well pumps. Having worked with them repairing and doing maintenance I have found the cost is far more than if they were hooked up to power.

Was just over the other day at a friend's business that is a combination farm supply, machinery repair shop, and complete iron working shop. All his equipment is hydraulic powered with a 220 hp Cummins driving the pump for among other things a large press brake, metal lathe, shears, rollers, drill press and milling machine. Power generated on a small scale can not be as efficient as the power made by the utilities. Hopefully new innovations will change that but today if you life cycle the actual cost it is still cheaper to buy your electric.

Are you ready to ask your spouse to make all your clothes on a treadle sewing machine?

Agree. You can't compete with a mega-buck utility no more than you could compete with the automotive industry by building a car piece meal. It takes a fat wallet and a bit of pioneering to live off the grid.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Living off the grid

I can't speak for power but communications are rated by the PSC. Hospitals, cell towers, assisted living, home health care, and so on. I am sure the first push to restore power is no different. Then the power company pushes their efforts based on area per capita. If you are out in the country it could be a while. I live in a very dense area and we were 4 days last time. I had a sandwich shop friend who was weeks.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Living off the grid

Hospitals along with most health care facilities and cell towers have genset backups. generally a 60-100kW unit for cell towers, and a 750kW to a bank of 2mW for health care and government facilities

While the cell tower backups are not considered emergency, the health care units are emergency backup and will come on and switch over in under 10 seconds after a power failure.

most hospitals are using natural gas for the genny fuel so they do not need to rely on diesel supply

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Living off the grid

Thanks Scott. We are now all enlightened. I would have never thought a hospital would have had a backup generator. By the way standby generator at a cell tower means you better be standing there if you expect it to run.