Kerry just lost

[BrittanyJim]

Re: Kerry just lost

The conservatives in this stream intrigue me. On the one hand, they want limited government but on the other hand, they want the government to arrest people for exercising free choice with regard to abortion. While I personally could never be party to an abortion, I'm equally certain that I have no business imposing my view on someone else. On the one hand, one suggests that the conservative approach to the economy, (i.e., rich-friendly policy so they have enough to invest in jobs for others) is the right thing to do but this is the same economy that prevents this person (Bearcat Powered) from being able to "afford a used car". It seems to me that an economic platform that favors workers is a better economic platform than the one that favors the wealthy. Take a look at the living conditions and lifestyle of the working class in the North with the lifestyle of the working class in the South if you think unions hurt workers. On the other hand, the wealthy Southerners (usually business owners that don't have to pay union scale wages)enjoy the privileges associated with being part of the upper class. My theory is that low wages in the South and the anti-union sentiment is a holdover from the days when the Southern agribusinessmen had slave labor....but that's just a theory from a poor old white boy that served in Vietnam, went to College on the GI Bill, and will, frankly, do fine regardless of whether the Republicans continue to lead or whether the Democrats return to the White House.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Kerry just lost

Snapper im saying I personally have not adopted a child.....but I have taken in more than one kid on more than one occastion......I ran a youth group full of street kids and I know the problems they are, and thank God, were facing.Good parenting straight or gay parents would help in most of the cases I know of. My statement about the gay parents was meant to show you how your statement of the Christian parents was messed up. Understand I do not agree with Gay marrage but I would be an idoit to think just cuz someone chooses to be gay they do not love their children and could not be good parents. But you have to admit just raising your kids as Christians is not abuse. I believe abortion is killing A LIVING BEING.....Sorry but I can not even think of any reason anybody can say its ok unless they believe it is not a living being. Brittnyjim is murder ok or is that just the government imposing there conservitive veiws on all you freedom fighters. If a baby can be born and survive I say its a living human being and if its a living human being and you or anybody ends its life on purpose its murder.....even if its their mothers choice to do so. As for making the rich even richer so they can provide more jobs .....this makes more sence to me then to just give out welfare to anybody that wants it. I am able to work so I do.....In a liberal world I could collect my "entitled" moneys and not work. hmmmmmmmm sounds great, except when you come back in 10 yrs a prolly will still be collecting not working. I think both sides are screwed up but I personally feel the right is the lesser of two evils.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kerry just lost

Man, where is that well placed arrow here.<br />It's like beating a dead horse.<br /><br />Neither side will change the other.<br /><br />I did and will again, vote for Bush.<br />I have and still am making money with my business.<br />He, Bush, has not hurt it any.<br /><br />Now, I'm done.

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Kerry just lost

<br /><br />The 'typical' partisan 'bashing' that's WAY too prevalent on this forum.<br /><br />

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now...

 

[Rat-Bass Did]

Re: Kerry just lost

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br /> The conservatives in this stream intrigue me. On the one hand, they want limited government but on the other hand, they want the government to arrest people for exercising free choice with regard to abortion.

In other words, on one hand they want limitted opression and extortion, on the other hand, they want the government to arrest people for murder.......Uh---yes.<br /><br />

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br /> While I personally could never be party to an abortion, I'm equally certain that I have no business imposing my view on someone else.

I may be new here, but let me get this straight;<br /><br />While personally, you could never be party to murder, you're equally certain you have no buisness stopping one in progress??? Well, ok. Some people are just like that. It's thier right as American. But ewww!yuk! Reminds me Danny Devito's charachter in "Taxi"!! Not exactly not kind o guy us uncompassionate conservatives want for a nieghbor , I can tell ya.<br />

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br /> <br />On the one hand, one suggests that the conservative approach to the economy, (i.e., rich-friendly policy so they have enough to invest in jobs for others) is the right thing to do but this is the same economy that prevents this person (Bearcat Powered) from being able to "afford a used car". It seems to me that an economic platform that favors workers is a better economic platform than the one that favors the wealthy.

You aren't thinking with your brain here.Answer these questions,(or not)----<br /> Who employs you to make a service or product?<br />What would make this guy want to pay you in the first place? And what would make him want to pay you more?<br />Have you tried to actually purchase a new or used car lately? I'm paying for one I bought at ZERO interest, meaning I am using Mr Richguy's money to borrow his money, and drive his car .Um er....You wouldn't think that spurs the economy for Mr Richguy or his family, but in a way it does.<br />And if you werk for Mr Richguy, how can he best serve you? Is it his job to serve you? And finally, if it IS his job to serve you, don't you think it's in your best interest that he get paid for his service or product?<br />And what would motivate him to provide BETTER goods and service?<br /><br />So it's "No, the government--you and me, (remember for the people,by the people) should give us everything we need to exist, and free pills too...And we are just one big Santa Clause, I guess."<br /><br /><br />

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br /> <br />Take a look at the living conditions and lifestyle of the working class in the North with the lifestyle of the working class in the South if you think unions hurt workers. On the other hand, the wealthy Southerners (usually business owners that don't have to pay union scale wages)enjoy the privileges associated with being part of the upper class. My theory is that low wages in the South and the anti-union sentiment is a holdover from the days when the Southern agribusinessmen had slave labor....but that's just a theory from a poor old white boy that served in Vietnam, went to College on the GI Bill, and will, frankly, do fine regardless of whether the Republicans continue to lead or whether the Democrats return to the White House.

I take a look at that all the time. And the way I tackle the problem is by going the extra mile for my company, to make them the best at what we do. We have way too many workers there who think like you do, and the slack has to be taken-up,and the rope pulled more taught than our competetor's rope.<br />If my boss, Mr Richguy, does not succede, niether does me. and he is a great guy (even if he os a little stressed-out at times).<br />I won't delve-into why any further!<br />I don't go to church, but if you want to understand why I want a good person in posistions of power,as opposed to an evil one I'll be explain it further. In the meantime, I'm going back to "lurk mode".

 

[dhud64]

Re: Kerry just lost

Kerry did not pick Clinton as running mate because he did not want to become part of the Clinton body count. Had THEY, gotten in Kerry wouldn't live long enough to see another election.

 

[BrittanyJim]

Re: Kerry just lost

MikeandRonda, actually, I know first hand about real murder. My 87 year old dad and 81 year old stepmom were both murdered by a parolee who had been out of prison less than a month after serving a 10 year sentence for armed robbery. The investigator suggested that the murderer wanted to leave no witnesses this time.<br />I also have know someone who had an abortion. I don't equate the murderer of my parents with the person who made a very painful choice to terminate a pregnancy. Establishing an economic policy that favors workers over the rich really doesn't have anything to to do with a handout.<br />RatBass Did, most of the folks I know at working class levels work very hard for their companies...I work very hard for mine as you do for yours. But SBN's got it right, "Neither side will change the other".

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Kerry just lost

u guys are past left field on this thread... even<br />past the bleachers and parking lot. aren't we talkin<br />about Edwards?<br />lemme pre-face this by saying I am a Bush supporter<br />and he has my vote, regardless...<br />but, I sure like Edwards a heck of a lot more than<br />scary kerry. now I have not really put him under<br />a microscope since he didn't win Dem. nomination,<br />but he impressed me in the dem. debates and I have<br />a great deal of respect for ANYONE who is a self<br />made millionare. (harder than marrying into $)<br />MY .02

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry just lost

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br /> MikeandRonda, actually, I know first hand about real murder. My 87 year old dad and 81 year old stepmom were both murdered by a parolee who had been out of prison less than a month after serving a 10 year sentence for armed robbery. The investigator suggested that the murderer wanted to leave no witnesses this time.

That's horrible, BJ! I pray they're both with God.<br /><br />

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br />I also have know someone who had an abortion. I don't equate the murderer of my parents with the person who made a very painful choice to terminate a pregnancy.

Who can equate the two? But the end result is equal in every respect. The victums were murdered, regardless of how long they were allowed to live. The mutant(s) who killed these two people will meet a judge some day. This judge will not be able to show any mercy for evil, and only be able to rule upon thier actions while they were living.The mother will also stand before this judge. She will answer for this horendous crime, even though earthly governments allowed it to happen without punishment. God saw it happen, and the parents made a hard-thought, heart-fealt decission to end a life.<br />

Originally posted by BrittanyJim:<br />Establishing an economic policy that favors workers over the rich really doesn't have anything to to do with a handout.<br />.

No. It has more to do with extortion than it does "favoring werkers", doing so the same way as banks favor bank robbers. It has more to do with punishing success than it does helping the poor.<br />It has to be unequal in every respect, and giving preferencial(sp) treatment to those who work for "the rich" (which I assume includes big buisnessmen who hire werkers)?<br />Chiles, please!<br />"Tricke-down" economics", a term coined by the late President Reagan, was real, and history bears-out it fruits and can't be disputed (with any degree of honesty or ethics, that is).<br /><br />"Rat bassdid", huh? (lol I like it, and hope you don't get zapped!) And after checking out your profile, I was wondering if that "Cape" you live in is Cape Coral? Because we have a lake Trafford in Florida, not too far from where I live. If so, we need to plan a fishin trip!!<br /><br />As for this thread getting totally derailed, appologies on my part. I just can't wsee this subject raised without it raising my hackles in the process!<br />In an effort to salvage the thread, let's equate it all to the present canidates' stand on the issues we have debated here. It would appear nobody has or wi;ll change thier minds, nor the way they vote. So in that regard, I'm so glad the Johns will be flushed in November!

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Kerry just lost

Someone, anyone, please give a valid example of any civilization where all sides did not work together to make it work economically! Show me any economy which survived 200 years without going through much worse than ours has (great depression included) and remains strong by socializing and catering to the worker? Guess what, the workers in the socialized lands soon wind up hungrier than the ones which do not penalize the rich for their wealth. Because SOMEONE has to pay the taxes to support OK, even the field, lets divide all wealth evenly. Everyone gets the same amount. What will happen? In 20 years it will all wind up in the same pockets it is in now, more or less. The big reason some have wealth is NOT that the government has offerred a few "breaks". It is because of hard work and willingness to take a risk. The average worker takes little risk. There is no longer incentive for someone to become an employer if there is drastically reduced financial reward. Employment is when when both sides are rewarded- one by profit, the other by pay. The beauty of what we have is OPPORTUNITY. We each get the chance to make our own success, as it should be. Screw around in school and have a crummy job? Don't cry to the union, just blame yourself! (Then get off your duff and educate yourself and go find more opportunity!) There is no room for class envy in a healthy, open society where there is still opportunity.<br /><br />When the employees become particularly efficient the boss makes more and hopefully should reward his employees accordingly if he has an ounce of intelligence. And the employees should also invest something of themselves and go well beyond the minimum effort to help the business succeed, thus guaranteeing their own success as well. Doesn't always work that way, but for every example of of a bad boss I can give you 100 examples of bad employees. Now, there is a situation where employers micro-manage every detail and remove opportunity to find better ways to do things. These employers shoot themselves in the foot when they do this, and of course destroy morale. The solution? Exercise your freedom and find somewhere else to work!!! Look hard enough and something better will be found. Don't expect perfection, but don't tolerate someplace which won't allow you to grow and serve better. Personal responsibility is the key here, folks. Do not ask someone else to do for you when you aren't willing to take advantage of the opportunities available. And no, they won't normally go search for you and deliver themselves on a silver platter.<br /><br />All this applies equally to the government. Gov't was not created to deliver every need or wish to everyone. It is a framework established by we the people to give us some guidelines- establish rules- to help us work together. These were based on the values the founding fathers. This was to be as minimal and unobtrusive as possible. We were warned by the founding fathers of the tyrrany which this could grow into if we allowed it to. Gov't is larger than ever (draining more tax dollars just by sheer overhead than ever) and very much taking the position of the micro-managing inept boss. Because we allow it. Because we love to hear the promises of those politicians who promise more and more. The courts have devolved into a second legislature with their judicial activism. Congress has so cluttered the books with more and more laws that the courts are further brought into the fray to try to sort things out. This has all gotten much, much too complicated. Costs businesses so much to just keep up with all the many laws that it is difficult to make it. Is it any wonder we lose jobs to overseas? Of course most of those are positions too "demeaning" and low paying for anyone here to take anyway. Why is it we live in an age that we are deluded into thinking the gov't owes us something instead of us owing our country because of the freedom we enjoy? Maybe we've listened too long to those liberal wh*res (from both parties) who we elected who promise so much in order to buy our votes? Why have we forgotten that we need to contribute to our society rather than sit back and parasitically enjoy what it does for us? Strangle the source of captal for the employers by giving undeserved preference to the worker and all we'll do is hasten the collapse of our own economy. And the crybaby pro labor weenies will be the first to get hungry. I am not categorically anti-union, but I oppose any union which is socialistic in leaning. That means most so far as I can tell. Neither do I support bad management. (BrittanyJim, this is why I CHOSE to change my work environment, accepting half the pay for half the stress and better benefits. When I'm ready, probably soon, I'll seek greener pastures again. So glad I still have the freedom to do so!)<br /><br />A government which elevates labor above employers ultimately cuts the country's own throat. (Very shortsighted and stupid to do so.) A government which encourages fairness but gets out of the way promotes prosperity for all. At least so long as everyone remains committed to pulling their own weight and taking responsibility for themselves. Not so sure we collectively still remember that very well, though. Pity.

 

[PW2]

Re: Kerry just lost

There are four main expenses for the government:<br /><br />1. Defense and national security<br />2. Social security<br />3 medicare<br />4. interest on the national debt.<br /><br />The government has to find a way to fund these through revenues--either by increase revenue or by reducing benefits. This is not and should not be about class warfare--It is about the most effective way to achieve the goal, and achieve the national interest. There is, of course, room for debate on the method.<br /><br />Oh, and the last time my government attempted to force me to acknowledge "god"? The last time they asked to say the pledge of allegiance, for one. I ought not to have to have "faith in god" to be a good citizen.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Kerry just lost

PW2, just remember that items 2,3,&4 were never planned for when the Constitution was drafted. They are fairly recent developments. #4 of course caused by 2,3, and all the other excess spending congress does in excess of revenues. Isn't it ironic that the average housewife is a much better money manager than congress? Maybe that is what we should do- fire congress and replace them with people who run their own personal finances well. Those who know to not spend what they don't have.<br /><br />As far as being "forced to acknowledge God", don't forget that you do it everytime you handle currency also. My advice to you: GET OVER IT!!!<br />Isn't it hypocritical for the anti-God crowd to cry for freedom for their side when they do everything they can to try to take away the freedom of those who believe? No, no one is forcing you to believe, as is evidenced by your post. Yet no one stands to force religion upon anyone. The anti-religion crowd just wants to "sanitize" the society from reference of God, which is to essentially outlaw God. Hmmm, Amendment 1 doesn't go for that either, now does it? If you don't want to say the pledge, just stand silently out of respect for the flag those who defended it. Don't say it. Or better yet just leave off the "under God" part if you're more comfortable that way. No sweat. Just quit pretending anyone is trying to force anything upon you. That is utter nonsense. The very freedom you have to say what you do was engineered by those whose world view was decidedly Christian. It was defended by people who were predominantly Christian. Those with faith were here first and built the great majority of what we now enjoy. If that is not good enough for you then feel free to leave and go elsewhere. The Bill of Rights (first amendment) guarantees you will not be forced to surrender to a state religion. If you understand what was meant (until it was recently twisted) you would have no concern about this. It means you are free to believe what you will. Though many who do understand have much reason to be concerned about the misuse of this amendment since the courts have deliberately taken opportunity to distort the very clear intent, wrongly citing a Jeffersonian letter (not even a legal document) out of context. Now it is used against faith instead of defending it, rather than merely preventing another officially sanctioned "church of england" scenario. What a total perversion of the intent of one of our dearest and highest laws.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kerry just lost

Die topic, die.<br />As I slowly pull the arrow back.

 

[Rat-Bass Did]

Re: Kerry just lost

Sean. it's me. Mack? Maktennn? Been lurking for you on FS. What happened and where u been? Email me. Let's try for Rolin Martins in September?<br /><br />Yeah, die thread.Because Bearcat Powerd just said all that was left to say.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Kerry just lost

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> There are four main expenses for the government:<br /><br />1. Defense and national security<br />2. Social security<br />3 medicare<br />4. interest on the national debt.<br /><br />The government has to find a way to fund these through revenues--either by increase revenue or by reducing benefits. This is not and should not be about class warfare--It is about the most effective way to achieve the goal, and achieve the national interest. There is, of course, room for debate on the method.<br /><br />Oh, and the last time my government attempted to force me to acknowledge "god"? The last time they asked to say the pledge of allegiance, for one. I ought not to have to have "faith in god" to be a good citizen.

Where does midnight basketball and 100,000 extra cops fit in here, PW2?

 

[crab bait]

Re: Kerry just lost

yeah, but KERRY has better hair.. an EDWARDS can 'get the chicks' an gots good hair ,too..<br /><br />you's see,,, better hair wins the elctions every time... <br /><br />the 'JOHNS' will win in '04..