Kerry just lost

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry just lost

Originally posted by snapperbait:<br /> Me Oddjob? A conservative? NEVER! Me and the conservative side clash real bad on the disgusting hypocrisy of the "good christian" segment of the right.... <br /><br />No, trust me when i tell ya that the conservatives definately don't want me around....<br />

Think about why they do not want you around.<br />If we simply must bring God into the arena of political ideologies, I'm so proud of being aligned with "them"-- the side which is WIDELY known for it's strong Christian faith, and high moral character.<br />If this is what devides us, I say, thank God it devides us, because "In God We Trust" is clearly stamped-into my currency....And I've never quite understood why they want to take my currency away from me to give to the secular socialists who think it is due them.<br />Only in America, I guess.<br />But there are only two proverbial roads to travel thru life....The road of good and the road of evil. Everything in between is due to individual reasons,it doesn't have a destination, and that don't count in the end.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Kerry just lost

Hot dog! we got religion, politics, and abortion here... Boy howdy!<br /><br />

fundamental misunderstanding of what the True Christianity is all about

I don't think so... Raised that way.. Forced to go to bible school as a child... Follow in the footsteps of Jesus, or something to that effect.. do as he would do, so on and so forth... <br /><br />By no means would i ever lump the true followers of christianity (you know who you are ) into the same group as the hipocrites, but I know what I see and unfortunately the hipocrites seem to "rule the roost"... The quiet true followers would'nt "take out the trash" so to speak, because thats not the christian way... (am i pretty close here?)<br /><br />Now, that said.... Sure. The left is full to the top with hipocrites, and yes it's disgusting.. I can't stomach Hillary.. Kerry's no prize either.. Kennedy makes me ill... It's hard to get them out! We (true democrats) are trying....<br /><br />As hard as it is for some to believe here, there really is a "compassionate, caring, and intellectually very honest side" to the democratic party as well... All nobel intentions from both side put aside, I feel the the true democrats are closer to, and deal with, reality better than the republican party, hence the reason I'm a registered democrat...<br /><br />I can assure you all that if it were Kerry vs. a real by Websters definition "conservative", not this terribly skewed modern conservative movement garbage (spend spend spend, control control control absolutely everything, even a womans body), yep, i'd probably vote republican this go round......

 

[m-boat]

Re: Kerry just lost

As for as Kerry and Edwards go I realy don't know either one, but they have to be better than BUSH. Every time there is a republican in as President the jobs go to other countries, with Ragan and all of the Republicans all they look out for is the rich.......... And it showes!<br />So I am going to vote for Kerry although I wanted Gepahart to win the race. Because he is for the working people of this country. And the other ones will give returns to the rich like what Clinton told bush thank you for all that he received because of what he did for the rich!!!!!

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Kerry just lost

the side which is WIDELY known for it's strong Christian faith, and high moral character.

Really?.... ah nevermind.. I won't go there....

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Kerry just lost

Well, Snapper, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on many things, although I truly appreciate your thoughtful response. I know there are good, sincere liberals, though have yet to personally confirm any in politics. Some said Hubert Humphrey may have been one (I was too young to have paid attention), and Jimmy Carter meant well I believe. I'm not saying that all democrats are bad to the core, but they still need to see a much larger picture since the liberal philosophy is short sighted at best. Some may use it with good intentions, though many use it to serve themselves. In any case it still fails to deal with real world economics or fully encouraging personal reposibility. It simply promotes way too much government which has itself become a burden to society. If things keep going this way it will have to implode at some point. So then, we do disagree on your reality statement completely, although I'll concede that there are a lot of nominal republicans who don't have anything better to come up with either. Honestly, I won't pretend that the majority of conservatives are all I'd prefer to see as far as being models of integrity, compassion, or anything else, though I see maybe just a bit more integrity and ability to fully connect the dots philosophically among some. Just how I see it. Maybe some day I'll be surprised to see some wonderful exceptions, though I'm not holding my breath.<br /><br />

The quiet true followers would'nt "take out the trash" so to speak, because thats not the christian way... (am i pretty close here?)<br />

Not sure quite what you meant here, though I'll guess you imply the christian right has neglected to stand up and clean house when it gets dirty. If that is what you meant I'll strongly agree. And it is a shame, too. Matter of complacency. Truth is never anything to be ashamed of, and shadowy compromise should not be tolerated. Love the sinner, but hate (and expose) the sin. Not entirely the same, but didn't Jesus run the corrupt out of the Temple with a whip of cords? There is a place for righteous indignation. But we've been asleep at the wheel. I believe our complacency will be remembered when we give account before the Almighty. Thankfully He is a gracious God, though He won't just merely wink at our failures either.<br /><br />I'm wondering if you ever caught the difference between faith changing from the inside out and merely putting it on as a covering as many do? (This is the difference between Real Faith and mere religion) Those who pretend or just don't yet know the difference try to cover their old nature. Lot of good that does- like hiding a skunk in a burlap bag. Might not look like a skunk but soon enough there will be no doubt. When God changes someone from the inside first there is a complete change of character, though it may take years to fully unfold. Bottom line is God alone knows who we really are, and everyone is capable of screwing up. Humanity has gotten pretty fouled up, all in all. The Bible tells us the only way to get it completely right to to go back to our Creator/Redeemer, since we are personally ourselves unable to be good as He defines good. That is the biggest picture of all- the political scene is just one more symptom of this truth. Any physics student can tell you about the second order of thermodynamics- increasing entropy. Murphy's law in a serious light- things tend to go from order to disorder. Is humanity exempt from this? If you think not just pick up any newspaper....

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Kerry just lost

Oh yes Bearcat.. I know the faithful, and the phony faithful (the putting on as a covering).... The difference is quite obvious in most cases...<br /><br />As for your guess on my implying the neglect of the truely faithful not taking out the trash, you are correct Sir and I'm happy that we agree there..... <br /><br />Increasing entropy.. Order to disorder.. Humanity exempt? No.... But it can be fun to watch...

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry just lost

Wont go where? But yes, really. I am not lying.<br />In general terms, we do not like killing babies, 'Robinhood economics', government taking care of us, prejudace, or eqaul rights provided those rights are based upon race, religion, sex, or political creed.<br />We abhor assaults on our freedoms, and ammendments to the constitution (hence the lable,"conservatives").<br />We are compassionate too (in general), believing in teaching them to fish,as opposed to giving them what we caught for our own families.<br />Gereally speaking of families, liberals think Bill Cosby flipped-out, while us conservatives are generally wondering why blacks are "shocked" by what he had the onions to say in thier midst.<br />Welcome home, Bill.<br />As for God, yes we claim him, in general. We are generally good people,who give 10percent of what we make to our church, and do so out of conviction. We would all gladly give the fed the same, if only they weren't into us for a bigger percentage we want to keep.<br />Snapperbait, nobody who has read your posts could call you UN-compassionate, but niether are us Christians (at least the real ones). We are known for laying down our lives for principle.<br />Demogarphics are what they are. <br />Everyone who is compassionate is not a liberal. And not all conservatives put thier faith in God.<br />But you can't deny the demographic realities that make us what we are as one nation, whether you want to be under God or not.<br />I'm sorry you got misled by your gaurdians. They have done more harm to you than you'll ever know.<br />I too, had my run-ins with Catholic nuns, sadistic coaches, priests concerned more with thier 'job' than thier congregation. Several of whom were so uncaring as to limit confessional time to 2 minutes per student durring any school service, rather than ask for assitance from another parish, or extending service time.<br />I urge you as a compassionate person tho, to search your soul, but even if not, just think about where you are and how you got there.<br />If you placed your faith on the human priest, father, teacher, nun ect, you HAD to be taken for granted, taken advantage of, lied to, or misled somehow. But you have a future (God willing). We are all human. God ain't. If I were you, I'd place my faith in God, and never trust any fallible human.<br />Bush aint perfect iether. Nor is he God. But I'll vote for him on ethic qualities alone, given the choices laid-out by the people (the human people).

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Kerry just lost

M-boat, please remember what you said about Kerry (or Gephart?) being for the working guy when they work to raise taxes (including yours) and stifle the economy. If republicans give any consideration to the wealthy it is so they can invest in America and make MORE jobs. (Which is a fact- they do) SOMEONE has to have the money to invest to make the jobs. And by the way, the "wealthy" is not the few that you probably think of. Much more it is middle class working people who hold investments for their retirement. Percentage wise the filthy rich don't hold much of a percentage of the total. But they are an easy target to single out. Marx and Lenin sure liked to target them, now that I think of it. But where did that get them (Russia)? Poverty! (Except that socialist dictators have been without exception too arrogant to avoid corruption which further destroyed their own country- they lived in opulence as the average citizen starved and froze) <br /><br />Union wages have done as much to drive our production overseas as anything has. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to make a decent living, but assembly line jobs are not as skilled as highly trained technical or professional positions, yet those who work in UAW shops sure make more than I do as a skilled technician. Maybe that is why a new car can cost half of what I paid for my house? Guess what, I can't afford even a used car. But I refuse to be bitter about that. <br /><br />When in history has our expectations been this high? Only in the last 35 years or so have we expected to be given so much on a silver platter. Our generation is a bunch of spoiled brats. If everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie then the first to grab will get more but there will be less for the others. So we whine. And politicians pander to that whining. By the way, the union I belong to does little more than collect my dues, offer few benefits and little (like NO) help with salary rates. They do however spend many millions from the dues collected on promoting their bought off leftist candidate's campaigns with just enough left over to send out their left wing socialist newsletter bragging about how oppressed we are. Give me a break! What BS! My union officials are delusional.<br /><br />What we ALL need to do is stop looking for someone to give to us and do what WE want. We need to heed JFK's advice- "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"!!! We need to quit whining and begging, and start contributing for a change.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Kerry just lost

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> Wont go where? But yes, really. I am not lying.<br />In general terms, we do not like killing babies, 'Robinhood economics', government taking care of us, prejudace, or eqaul rights provided those rights are based upon race, religion, sex, or political creed.<br />We abhor assaults on our freedoms, and ammendments to the constitution (hence the lable,"conservatives").<br />We are compassionate too (in general), believing in teaching them to fish,as opposed to giving them what we caught for our own families.<br />Gereally speaking of families, liberals think Bill Cosby flipped-out, while us conservatives are generally wondering why blacks are "shocked" by what he had the onions to say in thier midst.<br />Welcome home, Bill.<br />As for God, yes we claim him, in general. We are generally good people,who give 10percent of what we make to our church, and do so out of conviction. We would all gladly give the fed the same, if only they weren't into us for a bigger percentage we want to keep.<br />Snapperbait, nobody who has read your posts could call you UN-compassionate, but niether are us Christians (at least the real ones). We are known for laying down our lives for principle.<br />Demogarphics are what they are. <br />Everyone who is compassionate is not a liberal. And not all conservatives put thier faith in God.<br />But you can't deny the demographic realities that make us what we are as one nation, whether you want to be under God or not.<br />I'm sorry you got misled by your gaurdians. They have done more harm to you than you'll ever know.<br />I too, had my run-ins with Catholic nuns, sadistic coaches, priests concerned more with thier 'job' than thier congregation. Several of whom were so uncaring as to limit confessional time to 2 minutes per student durring any school service, rather than ask for assitance from another parish, or extending service time.<br />I urge you as a compassionate person tho, to search your soul, but even if not, just think about where you are and how you got there.<br />If you placed your faith on the human priest, father, teacher, nun ect, you HAD to be taken for granted, taken advantage of, lied to, or misled somehow. But you have a future (God willing). We are all human. God ain't. If I were you, I'd place my faith in God, and never trust any fallible human.<br />Bush aint perfect iether. Nor is he God. But I'll vote for him on ethic qualities alone, given the choices laid-out by the people (the human people).

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Kerry just lost

My guardians finaly understood and respected that faith in God, christianity, or faith in general, was not the way for me... For that I thanked them...<br /><br />Where I am and how i got here...<br /> The guy in the mirror got me here... Being a stand up guy, law abiding citizen, treating others with respect and treating them as i would wish to be treated, working my rear end off to get here... Morals my friends.. God had nothing to do with it...<br /><br />I'm happy that God gets it done for you Gentlemen of faith.. That makes me happy for you... Truely does... But when I see someone using that faith for political reasons (especially the phony faithful like i believe Dubya, the Clintons, and Kerry are, all with highly questionable ethics), well, that just makes me angry to the core...<br /><br />Sorry.. We can do better than the aforementioned people...<br />ps.. Cosby is my hero..

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry just lost

I'm with ya there 100%.<br />Faith is never the result of hypocracy, and to go to a church for a photo op is sinfull.<br /><br />but GWB and most of his family have allways been church-goin, God-fearin Christians, who won't allow a camera inside thier church, if they have any say in it.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Kerry just lost

awesome post 12footer........I think your right on.

 

[PW2]

Re: Kerry just lost

I guess I will never understand this preoccupation with religion and so-called "morality" among our political leaders.<br /><br />What I don't understand is the part where the leaders are supposed to impose their own religious beliefs upon us in the form of public policy. It seems to me the very antithesis to the freedoms we supposedly admire.<br /><br />We are governed by a system of laws designed to make society function. Not a religious belief system or a particular set of "morals" I am perfectly capable of deciding for myself what religious beliefs to hold, and what morals to live by, and to the extent that I follow the law, why should you care what those beliefs and morals are, and what business is it to you, and our leaders, anyhow?<br /><br />It is called freedom, my friends. It may not always be comfortable for all of you, but it is worth fighting for--<br /><br />And you don't have to go to Iraq to find the main war front, I am afraid.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Kerry just lost

PW2, you are free to decide for yourself as you should be. But it does sound very much like you need a history lesson consisting of a healthy dose of nothing except the writings of our founding fathers. Not all were christians, of course, though even Jefferson (the deist nonconformist freethinker)understood the significance of the faith you seem to want to run away from. Freedom? These men understood freedom, and its cost, far better than any today!<br /><br />Morals are only useful to a society as long as they don't get redefined to fit any given individual's selfishness. This is where some absolute values get really helpful to the health of a society. Many if not all of society's present ills come from ignoring what used to be considered average morals. But now we all know that those were just "too old fashioned." But now there is more crime than ever. No, its OK if our teenage daughters and sons get pregnant or exchange diseases now that it is no longer immoral, right? Kids who are damaged from violence because mom is a crackhead who has no idea who the father is- that is no problem either, right? Of course all this is nothing new. Trying to go our own way is as old as humanity itself. But now the taxpayer foot the bill at an ever increasing rate.<br /><br />Note I am not throwing stones at anyone, since I'm not qualified. All can mess up. My point is just that the ideal as it was traditionally defined is not something to be discarded because someone doesn't consider it convenient because they have selfish desires they want fulfilled the wrong way. Rewriting the rules as the game is played leads to consequences that are seldom desired. Relativism sounds fun until you live in its wake of destruction. The argument about putting one person's values on another is doubletalk trying to justify going around the rules. Imposed values is done all the time in the form of laws and peer pressure, workplace rules, etc. It is just that we no longer measure what is good and decent by a consistent yardstick any longer. No, I also do not want this to become oppressive as some seem to almost irrationally fear. When has it been so oppressive in the past? Never. People have always had choice. Just used to be people used to more frequently pay for their bad choices as individuals. Now we pay for them as a society, since individual responsibility on the whole is declining.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Re: Kerry just lost

<br /><br />Dont they make such a nice couple

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry just lost

lol,FH!! "No tounges" lol<br /><br />PW ,a belief in God is one thing. Faith in God is a totally different animal, and has everything to do with the way we ,(those humans who wish to lead us included),conduct our actions in this life...That, in turn, gives them the desired moral character to lead men who aspire to those same moral standards.<br />God's word teaches us how to live. If we insist on having a government by and for us, it is a must to also have the hard-won freedom to speak-out, vote, believe in God, and worship him, and even include the freedom to worship false gods. It's not the right of the individual to impose iether belief or faith (as if it were possible) on our fellow man. Unfortunately, we are at war with those who want these basic rights out of the way. They must kill all Christians, and seeing how you are in a country that still not only ALLOWS the freedom of worship, but is still predominantly Christian, you live in a potential war zone. When Atlanta is leveled by a nuke, or it's populous wiped-out by a bioweapon-laden hot air baloon (for example), the message may or may not become clear to you. A few Americans knew, (or didn't have to learn it) before 9/11....A great many more BECAME painfully aware after the attacks of 9/11. Some have yet to wake up, and even a few religiuos zealots are wanting to help bring us down in the name of thier anti-christ god.<br />PW, you want to seperate one front from another constantly, or are against both present operations. I'm not quite clear on which..While I am wondering if we have the military infrastructure for a third front!!!<br />I could care less what motivates alqeuda, aljazeeeeeeeeeera, hamas, BBC,PBS -- thier leadership, or thier popular belief systems.<br />I only care about those of my own government. So my choice in leadership is as clear as my resolve to win this war.<br />You stated,"<br />I guess I will never understand this preoccupation with religion and so-called "morality" among our political leaders."<br />It's vital to securing the type of leadership that stands for OUR values, as opposed to the enemy's. It's as simple as that.<br /><br />You also submitted,<br />"What I don't understand is the part where the leaders are supposed to impose their own religious beliefs upon us in the form of public policy. It seems to me the very antithesis to the freedoms we supposedly admire."<br /><br /><br />I hope to God you have learned the difference between "imposing religious beliefs" (sometimes with comercial aircraft aimed at buildings) and leading by example. Faith is NEVER an imposition, PW, unless zealots with guns don't want those of your particular faith around anymore. If you don't belive that, just open a history book.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Kerry just lost

Plywoody, When was the last time or for that matter the first time anybody in our country ever "FORCED" you to worship God. Or even pray to God. I can make a pretty safe bet here that it has never happened, on the other hand these countries you are always so worried about being treated right by us, the terrable warmonger, the USA, Im sure would never do that to you right. People who say by speaking about Christianity we ( the Christians) are trying to force our beliefs on them, need to get over it........

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Kerry just lost

guess I will never understand this preoccupation with religion and so-called "morality" among our political leaders.<br />

Let me splain that to ya PW.. They push their so called "morality and faith" to gain votes.... Makes the ignorant public think that the politican is a "good person".. This is a prime example of the phony faithful... <br /><br />P.S. M&R.. Parents force religion on their children all the time... Damn near to child abuse, in my opinion...

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Kerry just lost

Ok snaperbait what parents do by "forcing" their own children to learn Christianity is a little different than our government forcing our people here in America to worship God. But I guess you also feel that a Gay parent "forcing" their child to believe that is an ok lifestyle is child abuse as well?<br /><br />P.S. Snapper If you or anybody else tell me your Christian I give you the benefit of the doubt but it your actions that make me see the truth..........I believe Bush is a Christian....I beleive Kerry would like america to think he is a Catholic.....Does it mean they are both unfailable, no.......Does it give us some insight on where there hearts "may" be? I hope........ I do have to say Kerry says he believes that the Catholic veiw on abortion is the same as his.....but he supports partial birth abortion as well as all abortion. hmmmmmmmmmmm guess his actions show where his heart is. Where ever he believes the vote is apparentlly.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Kerry just lost

And I suppose you (M&R) go right along with everything the church does? No particular views that may clash with the views of the church?<br /><br />Perhaps Kerry's view on abortion really does differ form the views of the catholic church? I dunno what the catholic view on that particular issue is (guessing anti), and don't really care...<br /><br />Abortion rant:<br /><br />I always found it funny as to why the anti- abortion crowd are'nt the first ones in line to adopt these poor little children who are born addicted to crack, or have HIV/AIDS, or are just plain un-wanted?... I'm not saying that some don't adopt, but i'd be willing to bet that the great majority of that more "compassionant and careing moral majority" would not be willing to do that.. Gay people might adopt them, i dunno.. God bless em' if'n they did, (start sarcasm here) but of course we can't have children learning about "that lifestyle" for fear that the children might turn out GAY!.. (end sarcasm)<br /><br />Prostitution, drug abuse, teenage pregnancy ... These are problems that simply are not going to go away... Might be able to make a dent in these problems, but they'll always be there...<br /><br /> Ok.. You want to make abortion illegal... Fine, then here's what you'll get...<br /><br />Government funded programs to take care of these children, but the conservatives would cry foul and blame the "liberals" when the government takes tax money for programs to house, cloth, feed, give medical attention to, and educate the crack addicted, HIV/AIDs, just plain un-wanted children.... So what's it gonna be? Wanna play? Gotta pay.... <br /><br />Rant over.. think i'll quit now let this one go...