Just don't matter to most here, but

RetNav

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With last night's passage of the debt ceiling increase, the government's borrowing limit has climbed by $2.23 trillion since President Bush took office: by $450 billion in 2002, by a record $984 billion in 2003 and by $800 billion this year. Just the increase in the debt ceiling over the past three years is nearly 2 1/2 times the entire federal debt accumulated between 1776 and 1980.<br /><br />Here is where I found the information<br /> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6528251/
 

one more cast

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Can someone please tell me where this money came from? Or I guess a better way to put it would be who are the payees?
 

JB

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Media hype.<br /><br />The valid way to look at the budget, deficits and the debt is to measure them as a percentage of our national economy.<br /><br />Then compare that to your personal debt load and income.<br /><br />Makes a differrence, doesn't it?
 

Bigfun

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

It's just the unnatural ebb and flow of the economy, taxes, war, govt. programs, govt. waste...<br /> I think I heard something similiar during the Reagon/Bush 1 years.<br /><br />I suppose were going to hear a lot more on this in the next 4 years. :rolleyes:
 

KaGee

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Another way to look at it JB is that America makes up 5% of the world's population, yet is responsible for over 30% of it's GDP and over 50% of corporate profits. <br /><br />We have a large debt, but we also have the larger ability to handle it.<br /><br />RetNav is going to have to reset his downriggers now as he got a couple hits on this trolling run :p
 

BrianFD

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

That noise you hear is the government's giant vaccuum sucking every last dollar out of your wallets
 

spratt

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Gas prices increase...thus, the cost of everything that is touched by transportation adn the usage of fuel increases...isn't that just about EVERYTHING? The way I see this, is taht as the prices climb, my wages don't, in due time the outgo => income, then I am working for nothing...about then, guess I will hafta go on the government dole and let them pay me to stay home...HA!!! Or, become a farmer and get paid NOT to plant crops or gather milk!!! Yeah, that is it!!!
 

C-RAVEN

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

are you sure you're not looking at my credit line deficit ?<br />sure seems like i owe that much....
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Deep in debt... it is the American Way.<br /><br />Think of it this way.<br /><br />All of the interest paid on this debt probably goes to foreighn countries. They are getting rich off of us. Then they, in turn, spend their money buying things made in other countries, making even more countries richer. Then they can buy our services, making the USA richer.<br /><br />In other words, the interest money doesnt go away never to be seen. It will get back to the USA eventually, and make the rest of the world a better place.<br /><br />Ken
 

lundboat

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

One More Cast,<br /><br />The answer to your question is Treasury Bills, or T-Bills. Otherwise known as Government Bonds. If the Gov. needs to raise money via the debt route then it will issue a T-Bill, the everyday consumer like you and me can purchase a chunk of this T-Bill just like we can buy bonds or stocks from any other publicly traded company. Unlike stocks, your rate of return is more certain and guaranteed, especially with a T-Bill, vs any other financial instrument. The largest investors in the market, weather it is the bond market, stock market or whatever, are large corporations, overseas banks, etc. Joe Public consumes a very small portion.<br /><br />T-Bills are good for a retirement portfolio as they present a better return than your checking account and realtively low risk. I don't think the Gov has ever defaulted on a T-Bill.<br /><br />The Borrowing limit that was approved is basically the equivalent to getting the thumbs up from your bank to pull out another loan (if you wish) on top of what you have already borrowed.<br /><br />Incidentally, in the business world, a little debt is a good thing. Especially with today's interest rates. If you can borrow for 4% then turn around and earn 15% with that cash, then you just profited a net 11%. Most successful companies expect a dollar invested back into the business to give a return at least 10%+. The most expensive way for a business to raise money is through stock.
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

posted by OMC:Can someone please tell me where this money came from? <br /><br />We borrow money that is invested in the USA by other countries such as China,France,Germany,Japan and Great Britain.
 

12Footer

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

So you got the blues, Retnav? Or are you seeing red?<br />
36544546.jpg
<br />My guess, after looking at this map is, that a Flat, or V.A.T. taxing system is about to turn the nation inside-out (economically-speaking).<br />And it's not as horible as the elitist media wants you to think it is. Remember, <br />we are at war, <br />it's no longer 1933,<br />it's 2004.
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

If you want a really negative thought the deficit causes the dollar to keep falling against foreign currencies thus enabling foreign governments buy up US companies on the cheap thus letting China buy the US by stealth<br /><br />OR on the positive.<br /><br />the deficit causes the dollar to keep falling against foreign currencies meaning goods made in the USA are cheap so the trade deficit decreases<br /><br />statistics and damned statistics
 

JB

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

The new national debt is 7% of one year's GDP.<br /><br />How many people do you know who owe less than 7% of a year's income?<br /><br />At the end of WWII it was 25% of GDP.<br /><br />What would you consider "deep" in debt?
 

neumanns

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Now hold on JB...I respectfully would like to point out that you may have the horse ahead of the cart here. I do not dispute the fact that 7% debt to income would be an attractive number at this stage of my life but to compare this as if it the same as debt to GDP may be a bit of a stretch. GDP is not income the income is only a small percentage of GDP...is it not?<br /><br />GDP minus cost of production multiplied by the appropriate tax rate would be the income.(much more complex of course) Unless I'm mistaken but I think GDP is simply the doller value of goods produced.
 

JB

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Perhaps I should have asked how many owe less than 7% of their net worth.<br /><br />How does that compare to 25% of GDP in 1946?
 

neumanns

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Still JB...GDP is not equilivant to income. GDP is a simple way of measuring the country's output. I believe what your looking for here in refering to income equivalant would be the total amount colected by the IRS divided by the national debt in order to make a comparison to an individual's financial health.
 

Boomyal

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> So you got the blues, Retnav? Or are you seeing red?<br />
36544546.jpg
<br />My guess, after looking at this map is, that a Flat, or V.A.T. taxing system is about to turn the nation inside-out (economically-speaking).<br />And it's not as horible as the elitist media wants you to think it is. Remember, <br />we are at war, <br />it's no longer 1933,<br />it's 2004.
12footer, hopefully there will be a big change, but you better do your homework on the VAT. It is common in Europe and one of the most insidious taxes ever conceived. There is no way to ever calculate how much of the purchase price is actually tax. It all depends on how many hands touch the product.<br /><br />The two options that make more sense are either a national sales tax or a flat income tax. Either way, the IRS is either greatly reduced or eliminated and Congress would have a much more difficult time social engineering using taxes.<br /><br />One thing for sure, you can count on the Libs fighting a change tooth and nail.
 

snapperbait

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

"Perhaps I should have asked how many owe less than 7% of their net worth."<br /><br />Here's one... :) Bank's paying me. (as snapper mumbles incoherently about **** poor interest rates)
31.gif
<br /><br />It matters, RetNav.. With the current trend, I can see $10 trillion by 2008, very easy.. <br /><br />Meanwhile, the red states on the map say..... "Hey! Let's cuts taxes while our republican controled Congress has absolutely no budget and they're spending like theres no tomorrow"... <br /><br />Are PFD's good in a sea of red ink?... If they ain't, we're all gonna drown...
 

Boomyal

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Re: Just don't matter to most here, but

I think a person as sage as yourself, snapperbait, would do well to go study a bit of economics. And I don't mean Liberal economics, I mean real world economics!
 
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