Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

[Jedo_03]

Need all the help you can offer...
Here is a lot of PICS of the progress so far:
BEFORE I discovered that the boat was effectively in two halves :facepalm: I had gone ahead and cut out a panel on the upper part of the stern cap to allow me access to the inboard transom - but leaving in situ a solid bar running abeam to help keep the hull shape intact while I remove the rotted transom...
So that is where I'm up to now... Ready (I think) to remove that rotted transom...
These first 12 PICS are before I started cutting:


continued in next post...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Continued...
Pics before I started cutting...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Continued:
2 more PICS before I started cutting...


So what we are seeing so far is:
The "whole" boat looks Not Too Bad...
The FG on the deck is loose and riddled with holes (screw and bolt holes)...
The under-lying deck Ply is well rotted - non existent in large areas...
The Transom is Rotted: We can see two spots inboard in the drain where the FG is holed - the wood is well rotted...
Continued...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Continued:
After a good perusal of the informative threads here, I decided to tackle the Transom first...
My logic for this was that I needed to maintain the integrity of the hull shape as much as possible...
Now... Being a sexygenarian (LOL) I am no longer able to adopt a belly-up or belly-down position on the floor of a boat..!!
I had 'discovered' that there was a stiffening/strengthening bar at the fore-end of the stern-cap...
So my strategy was to chop out the upper face of the stern cap - from the transom to that Bar...
So's I could access the inboard face of the Transom nore easily...
And leave most of the deck in place...
I have since discovered that the Volero is, in fact, not a whole boat at all - but is a Sandwich..!!
I posted my concerns about that: The pics here show (I think) that the equatorial separation of my humble Volero was probably NOT how it left the factory...
Anyhow... I didn't SEE that until AFTER I had chopped the upper face of the stern cap...
So here are the PICS of where the boat is now - and that unsurgical and unsealed incision...
Note the Tech-Screws, Rivets, Holes and Gaps...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Continued:
Looking at the Transom: Pretty much Rotted...
A good few poorly-sealed holes on the outer FG skin (from a previously mounted OB..??)
More PICS...
Continued...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Continued:
More Pics...
The Hull looks straight - no Hooks evident...
And here is the cut I've made in the stern cap...

So... MY thoughts are: to go ahead now and remove the whole Transom (cut both the Inner and Outer FG skins - no point in trying to patch all those holes in that outer FG skin)...
Am I travelling in the right direction...???

 

[sphelps]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

I am still thinking like I stated in your original thread that it would be easier to leave the outside skin of the transom . It would be a lot of work and more difficult to re-glass the outer skin and stand a better chance of not getting out of shape if you leave it. The holes and previous bad glass work should be easy to fix after new transom wood is installed . Just my 1/2 cents worth ..

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

IMHO, it's NEVER a good idea to cut the outer skin of a molded boat. You will never be able to put it back the way it was. You can patch those holes a LOT easier and make it look a LOT better than trying to fabricate an entire new stern of the boat. It's your boat and you can do as you wish, but again like SP says, fix the holes and leave the stern in place.

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Hello sphelps & Woodonglass
Thanks for your advice...
Which I will gladly accept and therefore leave the outer FG skin intact...
I'm a tad more confident about the task ahead after today...
Made the 600km round trip to pick up the CSM's and Resin, Hardener, Talc, Cabosil and some tools from a supplier - who turned out to be also the working owner of a boat repair business and all-round FG expert... Real nice fellow, very very helpful and sharing with his pro-knowledge... He, too advised leaving the outer skin intact... Not just giving me verbal advice, but giving me a tour of the workshop to watch his men working and various demo's of how-to's... One of the demo how-to's was how to fill a hole or crack by dishing-out and then filling..!! Said he'd be there when I need advice... Great guy..!!!
Thanks again - and I will post pics of the progress...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

About "accurately" measuring the amount of hardener...
1% = 1ml per litre of resin...
I do have some 1ml & 2ml (medical) syringes...
There would be a small residual amount left in the syringe <0.1%
Would 0.9% be "close enough"..??
Or best to draw-up 1.1ml in a 2ml syringe and get closer to the 1% target??

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Don't overthink it. You have between .5% and 1.5% depending on temps for your MEKP percentage. The more you add the faster it will set up at a given temp. Optimum temp is 70-75?F or 21-24 C.

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Chuffed with ourselves today...
With the help of my beautiful bosun...
We managed to gut-out the rotten transom...
From the INSIDE...
AND...
Leave the outer skin intact:joyous:



Did make one boo-boo though... (tell you later...:embarassed
The removal turned out to be reasonably easy... Due in part to the ply section being the consistency of wet cardboard - and due in part to the Heath-Robinson "construction" methods used by whoever "repaired" the transom previously...
Shouldha taken photos - didn't: But found a second plyboard layer fg'd (loosely) over the inboard face of the original transom - which was presumably a 'fixit' effort...
That second layer came off virtually in two pieces - revealing the sodden and rotted transom ply, which came away from the transom skin with very little argument...





Here's what we scraped out...



So all that remains is to grind away the tailings of the FG, and clean up the inner transom, and looks like we are good to contemplate the construction phase of the transom...
Oh... And turns out that the two 'boxes' sternside, were the boat's "flotation" devices..!!!!!!
8 - 10 offcuts of some kind of styrene (each 12in x 6in x 0.5in) in each box...!!!!
Oh well...
I'm quite pleased to get past this hurdle - which wasn't a hurdle after all :laugh:
See next post for that Boo-Boo...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Ooops..!!!!
A momentary lapse of diligence whilst cutting away the upper deck in the preparatory phase...
Cut through the Hull...:facepalm:


And another pic of that transom ply...


1st Note to Self: Check what's underneath before cutting anything...
2nd Note to Self: Take pics while job is in progress...

 

[sphelps]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Nice work on the demo and good news with your local supplier helping you out . Unfortunately you cut a hole in the hull so now the whole boat is ruined ! Just kidding ! Your not the first and sure won,t be the last to ever do that ..
Grind it good and clean around the hole on the inside ,acetone bath, layer of csm a few inches larger than the hole. Then 2 layers 1708 each piece a few inches larger than the next . Hopefully that's a correct procedure or Woody or someone will correct me on it ..
Have fun with the grinding !

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Nice work on the demo and good news with your local supplier helping you out . Unfortunately you cut a hole in the hull so now the whole boat is ruined ! Just kidding ! Your not the first and sure won,t be the last to ever do that ..
Grind it good and clean around the hole on the inside ,acetone bath, layer of csm a few inches larger than the hole. Then 2 layers 1708 each piece a few inches larger than the next . Hopefully that's a correct procedure or Woody or someone will correct me on it ..
Have fun with the grinding !

Thankyou, Sir...
I haven't been able to locate any "1708" over here in Aus - after a search on the www...
The boat-builder is a good bloke called Bailey - say's he's never heard of "1708"..??? and that he mainly uses the 600g (2oz) CSM... He did have some "heavier" mat in the workshop - but said he rarely uses any...
The workshop is no back-yard affair... Largish business premises in an industrial area... And he has 3 men working there full time...
There was two boats in the workshop - one was a sea-going thing: that was stripped down to the FG hull and having new stringers and transom and deck - complete refit. The other was a pointy-nosed shiny beast (expensive looking) with a gouge on the underside. There was a jet-ski in too... Seems to do all types of FG - shower cubicles, water tanks, etc... So he's a working 'pro'... and he seemed pretty confident that all I needed mat-wise was the 600g CSM - cos that's all he ever uses...
So I have a little dilemma here: I know Forum-members have this preference for 1708 - but my local adviser says I'm good with 600g...? And I can't seem to access "1708" anyway...

 

[sphelps]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Well if you can,t find the 1708 bi-axle I,m sure you can get some woven roven cloth . That in combination with the csm should be plenty strong . I am in no way a pro so hopefully others will chime in ..

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

First off Mat and 1708 are totally different animals. CSM is mat. When the resin and mat are combined the Styrene in the resin actually partially dissolves the mat and aids in keeping the resin from breaking apart when cured. The 1708 is 17 oz fiberglass woven cloth with .75 oz of CSM stitched to it. If you can't obtain it then ask about Fiberglass cloth in various weights. They/He has to use something other than CSM CSM gives very little strength to the overall lamination. It must have Woven Roving or cloth to give it strength.

This diagram shows how to fix the cut in the hull...

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Thank you, sphelps and woodonglass
Looking at Ebay USA, 1708 is available:
Price per yard varies from $4 ~ $7
However, it's the SHIPPING COST that is the killer...
For 1 (one) yard the shipping is $122.80
For 2 (two) yards = $138.98
and each additional yard thereafter + $16.18
That's via UPS (expedited)
Via "Economy International Shipping" the cost rises to:
For 1 (one) yard = $189.43
For 2 (two) yards = $246.93
and each additional yard thereafter + $57.30

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...

Well... Despite trying, I wasn't able to source 1708 here in Australia...
I was able to source woven roving - but three different suppliers (here in Australia) advised me against using this..!!
The consensus of three Aus boat-repairers I have consulted is "go with 600gm CSM"...
I know that this is contrary to the advice given by the knowledge people in this great forum - but the only way forward is to use 600g CSM. Either that or abandon the project and junk the boat...
So I have continued, using 600g CSM...
Progess:
Having removed the transom internally and cleaned that area, we built a frame for the hull and flipped it over...
Inspection showed a scraped keel area and 4 mysterious 1/8 inch holes drilled through the outer skin near the stb stern, and one hole fwd of those that appeared to have been damage from one of the screws securing the seat..!! And the inadvertant cut I made through the hull... These were ground out internally and backed with 2 layers of 600g csm, ground to a taper externally and filled with PB, and "patch-repaired" with 3 overlapping layers (increasing in size) of 600g csm... Both strakes (is that what they're called?) were then layered with 2 continuous overlapping lengths of 600g csm, again overlapping the repaired areas... So that's 5 layers of 600g csm (or 100oz) covering the damaged areas and strengthening the sides of the hull...
The Keel area had the same... ground, then putty'd with PB and 5 overlapping layers (increasing in size) applied...
Here's that work:
Continued next post:

 

[Jedo_03]

Re: Jedo's Volero Dart Resto...


Now awaiting delivery of Gelcoat.
The whole hull will be scuffed and 3 layers of Gelcoat rolled on - with final layer of gelcoat + wax rolled on... Flattened and buffed...
Gunwhales will be painted same as top...
The hull will then be put back on the trailer, suitably chocked and braced and I will replace the transom first.
The transom timber is 1" A-Grade Marine Ply (expen$ive..!!) and I will add 1/2" marine ply to this to make a sandwich of 1.1/2 inches.
The sandwich will be well wetted and have a filling of 600g csm and resin, and be overwrapped with 600g csm... and then clamped to the outer transom skin with a PB mix and allowed to bond for 48 hrs...
Next will be to replace the stringers...
Consternation again with what timber to use?
Seriously considered Kapur... very heavy and 'spelky': the considered Indonesian Mahogany... again very heavy...
Now... having read dozens of articles and references and posts on a range of forums re "stringer material" we have reached the following conclusions:
The timber does not 'need' to be heavy - balsa and even foam are widely used...
Neither does it need to be inherently rigid - cardboard is used...
The stiffness and rigidity of the stringers is supplied by the FG encasing the stringers... some manufacturers use hollow pre-formed box construction FG...
No Timber is guaranteed to be completely resistant to the effects of water, over time... (some timbers are less-resistant than others)
Given that the viable lifetime of the restored Volero is a possible maximum 10 yrs (if it floats at all) the choice of timber / material for the stringers is less important than the protection affordedby the applied FG...

The superstructure of the boat is less-technically demanding: Inspection showed many holes drilled by previous owners. These are in the process of being backed and PB filled, then ground externally to a taper, glassed over, bodged and primed. I have sanded off all cracked and loose paint / gelcoat, and sanded out many small blisters. All will be primed with "primer + putty" spray, then final finish coat.

A fair bit of work already done - more still to yet do...