Israel Lebanon

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Israel Lebanon

" but it would suit me fine if they would **** or get off the pot when it comes to being rational and civilized. Sam "

I think that the latter is probably most suitable, since all that we've ever seen them do is ****.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Israel Lebanon

I feel everbody is missing the main point, and that probably has something to do with the propoganda they have been fed for generations.

This war is over land, and always has been.
Israel wants other peoples land, and with the 100% backing of the USA, takes what it wishes with Military Force.

I don't believe and never will that the so called Terrorists forces are Terrorists at all.
They want their land back and are doing something about it.

The only difference between them and you is they are more determined to suceed (probably a result of 60 yrs or being badly treated by Israel and it's "friends").

The USA has gone on about democracy's and how people should be allowed to elect their leaders, and when those people elect a Govt that they choose, and the US dosn't agree with, then they encourage their collapse.

Believe me, I have no love at all for the peoples of the Middle East, but I always try to imagine my life had i been born in to those societies. All very well being critical, try walking in their shoes.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[QC]

Re: Israel Lebanon

1) I don't walk in terrorists shoes, they don't fit . . .

2) What makes Israel any less deserving of a homeland?

3) Who is taking whom's land in this latest iteration?

4) Israel just gave up on a bunch of land.

5) Do you really think Iran gives a flyin' flip about Palestinians?

6) Where does your fairness concern about land grabbing start and stop? Oz? NZ? USA? Itwasminefirstia? Takitbackavakia?

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Israel Lebanon

I will answer your points the way I see them as best I can QC.

1.) They call you and me Terrorists, just as we call them Terrorists. Maybe our side has been terrorising them for a little longer. I suspect they are as serious as us in the use of the word
2.) I believe Israel is made up of peoples from all over the world, of many different nationalities who all have religion as their common bond, and they wish to live together. Maybe I am incorrect, but I believe a child born in your country or mine, of Jewish parents, has more rights in Israel than a Muslin child born in Israel.
3.) This isn't over the latest land grab. this goes back to at least '46.
4.) And whose was it to start with.
5.) I honestly don't know. Don't know what you did to those guys, but they take every opportunity to have a go at you and your allies. Are they actually Arabs, or are they Persians.
6.) You got me on this one QC. The only difference is time and opposition. In your case must be about 420yrs? and ours about 200yrs less. I know it dosn't make it right, and it probably will never happen again.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[QC]

Re: Israel Lebanon

Cool Phil. Good debate, discussion. As with most things, a very cloudy picture. That's why I choose to "side" with those who at least behave morally. IMHO, as I noted above, Israel would sit still, take care of ALL of it's citizens, park all of their warplanes, and generally behave as a good country should if others would stop trying to destroy them. I don't believe the reverse is true if Israel simply parked their warplanes . . .

Ultimately your signature line says it best

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Israel Lebanon

"1 They call you and me Terrorists, just as we call them Terrorists. Maybe our side has been terrorising them for a little longer. I suspect they are as serious as us in the use of the word"

Here Phil, allow me to help you a little.
1)"Our" side kills innocent civilians by accident.
Terrorists target innocent civilians.
Our side has also been known to kill innocents collaterally when attacking bona fide military targets.
Terrorists install their military operations in civilian environments.
Our side prosecutes those that kill innocents unlawfully.
Terrorists are rewarded for it.

2)A Moslem born in Israel has it much better off than one born in Afganistan or Syria and at least as good as any other middle east Moslem country. Unless you're part of the King's family.

3)'46? B.C.?

QC, you gave up much to quickly for it to be a good debate.d Although I think I understand why you backed out.

Phil regarding;
4)QC brought up the point about Israel fighting all of it's that attacked in unison in 1967. The circumstances that led to Israels capture of those lands was rightious. And in the spirit of goodwill to give that land back was even more rightious.

As is your nephews fight rolmops. May they wage war with little harm upon them and without any guilt.

 

[QC]

Re: Israel Lebanon

Hey Skinny,

Thanks for taking up this discussion. I am learning less may be more . . . Although I am sure that is not obvious (wish we still had that graemlin)

Rock on dude!!

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: Israel Lebanon

One of the huge problems as I see it is everyone looks at things through different eyes. Myself growing up in a free country safe in my home can not even imagine what it is like growing up in a country like Iran or Israel. Phil you surprise me since from what I've read Australia has tried to copy America to a degree. How can you possibly put us on the same footing with terrorists? I have to applaud Skinny and totally agree with everything he said. Back to my opening, we look at things differently but I would think it would be unacceptable to target and kill innocent people in the most brutal and violent ways possible. I'm referring to beheading people and listening to their life blood gurgle out of their severed windpipe. This should be condemed by everyone. It is one thing to fight a military action but targeting women and children and blowing them up willy nilly is being a terrorist. In answer to your question on what we did to them to make them do this? That is the one of the stupidest things I've ever heard! They hate us because they were taught to hate us by people that know they can never be like us. Who is the first country to respond anywhere in the world to any type of need, ie tusnamis, earthquakes, whatever. It sure as ell isn't Iran or Iraq or any of those other cess pools they call countries. We are always the first to show up with big deep pockets and are hated by the world because of our success. I am really surprised by you Phil and as you can tell you certainly caused a reaction to even mention my country and terrorists in the same sentence. When this situation escalates, which it will, and these fanatics start blowing up things in your country and killing civilians will you have the answer to what you did to make them do it?

 

[tommays]

Re: Israel Lebanon

Look at the IRA for a different point of view and how that was handled buy the civil western powers


They had a huge amount of material support comeing out of the USA

Tommays

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: Israel Lebanon

I think you are talking apples and oranges tommays. The IRA certainly has done some damage but I don't think they are bent on world domination like the the people that flew planes into our buildings. I think they are fighting the same war that William Wallace fought quite some time ago. I'm not saying they are right but I have never heard of them beheading anybody.

 

[tommays]

Re: Israel Lebanon

The IRA was a bunch of western Terrorists targeting anybody and anything that stood in the way of there goal to free there homeland

And were willing to travel to other places to blow stuff up and target innocent civilians


I only bring it Up because its recent and WESTERN

Tommays

 

[QC]

Re: Israel Lebanon

I think tommays example is potentially analogous with one major exception. He's got the characters backwards. The IRA was funded by private donations from bad people. It is more analogous to how Al Quaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah are funded by money from rich Arabs along with money from Evil Governments. In both cases the US Gov't has supported the good guys . . .

I keep saying you guys need to read some Clancy.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Israel Lebanon

.

The IRA was a bunch of western Terrorists targeting anybody and anything that stood in the way of there goal to free there homeland

And were willing to travel to other places to blow stuff up and target innocent civilians


I only bring it Up because its recent and WESTERN

Tommays

At least you for one, are honest about your alliances, unlike our other anti-western membership.
Bring
it
on.


God Bless America, and death to his-bull-la and ham-ass

.
------------------------------------------------From SW Florida, A proud member of iboats since
March 25, 2001
The old me

 

[tommays]

Re: Israel Lebanon

I am just a simple loyal american who voted for bush and support his efforts to stop the spread of global terror


BUT liveing in and area with a LOT of people who did openly support the IRA i find it to be very relevant

Put it Back Thief, Now!! was pretty common place around here

Tommays