Iraq War

MSgt_OBX

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10
Re: Iraq War

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> I know, we can send Rumsfeld and Rice so they can lead Iraq,<br /> yep I vote for rumsfeld and rice as prsesident and VP of Iraq.<br /> would take care of several problems at once and just think of the leg up that amount of genius planning would bring to that poor country.
But can't we send Cheney as well, then we'd have solved 1 more problem.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
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Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: Iraq War

Originally posted by MSgt_OBX:<br />
Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> I know, we can send Rumsfeld and Rice so they can lead Iraq,<br /> yep I vote for rumsfeld and rice as prsesident and VP of Iraq.<br /> would take care of several problems at once and just think of the leg up that amount of genius planning would bring to that poor country.
But can't we send Cheney as well, then we'd have solved 1 more problem.
No way,Rodbolt. We need them in 2008 right here. :)
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
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20,066
Re: Iraq War

Cheney we can send to a national guard outpost on the new mexico border to lead the efforts in border security, he can get a bit of hunting there too.<br /> but lucky for the US all we have to do is survive the next 1 1/2 years and we can toss the bums out and try again.
 

PW2

Commander
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Apr 21, 2004
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2,719
Re: Iraq War

12 feetz...<br /><br />The last I heard, we don't get to choose the style of government the rest of the world uses...In a sovereign foreign nation, that is the role of their citizens and leaders.<br /><br />Besides, our president absolutely promised us in the 2000 campaign that we absolutely would not use our military in nation building excercises.
 

12Footer

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Messages
8,217
Re: Iraq War

Democracy,PW. <br />First, you condemn our efforts in Iraq to establish a democracy (I.E. "Of all the flawed premises in the leadup to this war, and our foreign policy, the biggest probably is the notion that democracy brings peace and prosperity.<br /><br />If anything like that is true, it is that peace and prosperity can bring democracy.<br /><br />Democracy has brought us Adolf Hitler, and Hamas in Palestine, that Idiot in Iran, Chavez in Venezuela, among others."<br /><br />Then, you insinuate that " we don't get to choose the style of government the rest of the world uses...In a sovereign foreign nation, that is the role of their citizens and leaders."<br />Huh? Why would we?<br /><br />Then you insinuate that the "president" is "using our military in Nation-building excercises"!?!<br /><br />You are all over the place to get at the one man you despise more than any other on earth.<br />Do you have any opinion on this issue, or just making one up as you go that would place Bush as the devil in your own mind?<br />What is wrong with a representative republic? A democracy? Even if the majority votes-in a 'space lord mullah mullah', like "Itatolah Sadamnini" or someone like that, it would be their choice!<br /><br />Just like the palestinians did with Hamass...It represents their majority in a (for the most part) free election. That is the foundation Iraq MUST have the opertuinity of, in order to form it's OWN government on...(And NO, i don't mean "hamass", i mean a representative government ,whatever it turns out to be, even IF it is hammas).<br /><br />There is very little you can do, expcept what you are doing here, to change that, as long as coalition forces provide SOME, portion of security for the Iraqis.<br />Historically, "nation building" is the role of any force that removes any regime, lest they allow Mogadishu's or Afghanistans to occur by withdrawing, leaving an anarchy, or a governing vacuum in their wake. <br /><br />We provided this basic obligation for Japan in 1945-1948 after WWII. We also did it for Germany back then also. And we still have bases there, that provide them AND us (now allies) global security. So call it "nation-building" if it turns you on... But we will still not leave an opertunity for anarchy in Iraq, as long as true conservatism has the reigns of this chariot of "nation builders", count upon victories to continue --- mission-after mission!<br /><br />Peace cannot come without security.<br />Anarchy feeds upon a rudderless society.<br />God Bless the Coalition. God Bless america.
 

rolmops

Vice Admiral
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Feb 24, 2002
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Re: Iraq War

PW,don't waste your time arguing with somebody who has trouble seeing the difference between opportunism and conservatism
 

BLU LUNCH

Lieutenant
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Re: Iraq War

Democracy has brought us Adolf Hitler, and Hamas in Palestine, that Idiot in Iran, Chavez in Venezuela, among others." <br /><br />
You forgot W......
 

12Footer

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8,217
Re: Iraq War

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> PW,don't waste your time arguing with somebody who has trouble seeing the difference between opportunism and conservatism
cute, rolmops -- What monsters you must picture the United States as!!!!<br /><br />I can see i must draw you a picture;<br />":eek:pertunism";
46339330.home.parcol33.0002.ImageFile.jpg
<br />
46339386.rush_on_a_roll.Par.0008.ImageFile.jpg
<br />---------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Anarchy;
53422209.beheaded.jpg
<br />---------------------------------------------------------------<br />Conservatism -- or in the Iraqi's case, a "represntative democracy";<br />
53419861.cindypress.jpg
<br />
60958297.Iraqi_voters_inked_fingers.jpg
<br />I thank GOD the defeatists in my nation do not have control of our military. I thank God everey day!
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
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Messages
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Re: Iraq War

Oh, and on this most solemn of days,<br />"nation building"; <br />
45472511.the_occupation_of_germany.Par.0001.ImageFile.jpg
<br />
18719475.normandy.jpg
 

PW2

Commander
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Messages
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Re: Iraq War

Rolmops,<br /><br />Yeah, I know, and you are right, but somehow I think the parents of 17,000 American kids that have been killed or wounded have a right to know what the heck we are doing over there, and as in the recent case in Afghanistan, a country that would want to put to death a citizen whose only crime was in converting to Christianity, is this really what we are sending our young kids over there to fight for?<br /><br />Now, I don't have a kid in this war, but if I did, I surely would want some real answers, more than the W and Rummy double talk, at least.
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Iraq War

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> We won???<br /><br />When did that happen? I must have slept thru it!!!
Yeah, it was kind of uneventful. In a shameless moment of using military assets for self-serving political showboating, Shrub landed on the deck of a carrier and in a republican version of it depends on what your meaning of ‘is’ is declared that we won.
 

PW2

Commander
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Apr 21, 2004
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2,719
Re: Iraq War

Not to mention the emotional junk like 12feetz just posted.<br /><br />Nice slide show, but what the heck does it mean? What's the photo of the WTC got to do with Iraq?<br /><br />If you wanted to be real, why don't you post a photo of OBL, still wandering free.<br /><br />It would be parrallel to our attacking Formosa in retaliation to Pearl Harbor.<br /><br />Or the purple finger gang? Why don't they stop posing for the camera, and take control of their country? And are they Shias or Sunnis in the photo, and which side do our soldiers get to be on?<br /><br />And the Cindy Sheehan photo? What's that about? Are you trying to shock us into the realization that right here in America, in front of God and everbody, a person would dare to speak a note of dissent?<br /><br />I am duly shocked!
 

12Footer

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Re: Iraq War

It's not possible for me to spin it into somethinhg you might understand (obviously).<br />To those heavily invested in defeat, there is only capitulation. There is also much pouting (because they are not controling our military).<br />Sorry, PW. You know where I stand, and seeinz how this is a day to remember and honor our war dead, I'll drop out this thread and not return.<br />I have stated my opinion.
 

ob

Admiral
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Aug 16, 2002
Messages
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Re: Iraq War

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> Nice slide show, but what the heck does it mean? What's the photo of the WTC got to do with Iraq?
Well,it's obvious that 12er is eluding to the concept of a link between al qaeda training/funding with Sadam/Iraq.Seems it really depends on what news source one wants to embrace as to whether there is a link.Do you have some intelligence info that you could share that says there isn't/wasn't one.
 

txswinner

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Re: Iraq War

Time for JB to announce to his buddy 12 ft that we are not a democracy but rather a republic, which is true. But really no big deal.<br /><br />Second, it is now in the news that there is yet another coverup inquiry about the military leaders covering up the killing of the Iraq civilians.<br /><br />JB, Glad you trained with marines and son is one but you are wrong if you think the grunts on the ground are taught anything but to follow orders and kill. That is our job and as any Marine will tell you until you made enlisted Boot Camp you have no clue!!! It is the philosophy the entire 7 weeks is based upon. Whoo Raaa
 

JB

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Re: Iraq War

Didn't go to Marine Boot Camp, TXS. <br /><br />The training I shared with Marines was covert operations, it was 50 years ago. The Marines (non-Coms and jr. Officers)I trained with were being trained to lead Marines in battle, to maintain discipline and to earn and keep unquestioning trust.<br /><br />When the leadership in the field performs as expected the "grunts", as you call them, do exactly as you say. . . follow orders. When those orders are to kill, they kill. No orders to kill, no kill except in self defense. That is, of course, assuming the training was effective.<br /><br />We don't disagree, we are simply looking at the reported events from different angles. You from the perspective of the Rifleman, I from the perspective of training, leadership and discipline.<br /><br />That is why I hold the leadership and training responsible for the acts of the Riflemen, whether the stories are true, distorted or outright lies.
 

rodbolt

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Re: Iraq War

your right again JB.<br /> itrs about failed leadership all the way to the commander in chief.<br /> however I really dont expect that any punisments will be meted out to much above E-5 or so.<br /> so far almost everything that lead us into Iraq and since has turned into fantasy or just general lies.<br /> the objet of the war kept changing, mistakes were made and admitted to yet nothing at the top leadership level was ever done to correct the mistakes.<br /> making a mistake is forgivable, making it when advised against it then not correcting the mistake ASAP is not forgivable.<br /> thats my biggest beef with the current leadership.<br /> seems the govt anymore is all about looking good and nothing about doing whats right.<br /> just like the "lost" VA data. we should have been informed immediatly, not several weeks later after it was informally leaked.<br /> I know its an isolated incident and possibly not even true, I pray.<br /> but if it is true it will kick the US out of the picture.<br /> it will be a cry similar to remember the alamo for all islamics.<br />if true the actions of a single squad will be the knot clicher I fear.<br /> I liked it better when the middle east folks were killing off each other rather than uniting to kill us awhile then go back to killing each other.<br /> fighting will be like shooting skeeters with a 12Ga.
 

txswinner

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Re: Iraq War

JB, Interesting you mention sp ops in corp, did not know they went back that far but I wore the black camo myself. Do you remember what div you worked with and did they were anything distinguishing back then. In VN wore no insignias, black camo, and when not in field did not give or rate a salute. We had no boundaries and required psych. exam to go back on civilian side. Some had been in country for over 3 years, and although called volunteers never was it a result of self agreement.
 

PW2

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Re: Iraq War

OB,<br /><br />I don't have any special info regarding a link between Alqaida and Saddam, except those things the CIA has released which has pretty much negated any supposed link, as well as Saddam's known history which suggested he was not about to tolerate any group gaining power in his country he did not control.<br /><br />All the evidence supporting such a link seems to come from **** Cheney (who later claimed he did not say what he was on record saying) and other sources who cite inuendas which are universally discounted by groups like the CIA, but does support a specific idealogy and its political agenda.<br /><br />It's a wild stretch to link Saddam with 9/11...and certainly not enough evidence to go to war over.
 
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