Interesting Situation...

ZmOz

Captain
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: Interesting Situation...

No deal should last forever. This deal is outdated. Times change, so should this BS. It WAS a good deal for them at the time. Their only other choice was to be killed/imprisoned.<br /><br />And again, they're getting a hell of alot more now than was ever part of the deal.
 

ZmOz

Captain
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: Interesting Situation...

Originally posted by Drowned Rat:<br />These "people" are my friends and to be honest the stereotyping is offensive and ignorant.
Who's stereotyping? Do the owners of your company not get extra benefits that you and I don't? What did they do to earn those benefits?
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Interesting Situation...

I work for a Native American owned company. Many of my best friends and co-workers are Native American. Nobody gave them this company. The owner started this company from scratch and now we are the biggest air medical company in the state and one of the biggest in the country. And I am d**n proud to be a part of it. These "people" are my friends and to be honest the stereotyping is offensive and ignorant. There are bad apples is EVERY cross section of society and to believe otherwise is naive. I guess I'm done with this post, lets have your final words, and no hard feelings.<br /><br />
4.jpg
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Interesting Situation...

I, like Barlow have a very strong opinion about these folks.
I've got my thoughts and opinions on this but, I better keep them to myself ... they ain't good. and they ain't pro-'native amarican' BS.. If ya get my point.<br />
The owners pay taxes just like everybody else. The owner was an America West airline pilot and he quit to start this company. He did it on his own, started with one airplane and now he has 5 airplanes and 15 helicopters in 4 states. No special treatment, just hard work.
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: Interesting Situation...

I grew up on the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota. Yes it was bad how they were treated way way way back when, but now they are in a learned environment. They declared themselves a sovereign nation.....until they need something. Then they cry oppression. White men took their land, the same way they took the land from someone before them and before them and so on. The Indians still living on the Rosebud are still technically under authority of the war department, but are free to leave whenever they want. One of my good friends left the reservation and learned a trade, got an good job in the middle income bracket, then moved back to try to make things better for his family and community. The jealousy was so outragous. One morning an old friend of his waited outside of his front door, when he went to work they shot him in the head. Another friend came back from college and was stabbed. It all came down to jealousy. They got away from the wellfare and alcoholism and were ostricised for it.<br />The Rosebud casino was started by two men who had just been released from prison for embezzlment. The feds had to go in and straighten things out within the first 5 years. At that time there were no Indian owned casinos that didn't require government intervention to get back on track. Back in the day of Russle Means and his followers on Pine Ridge they cried oppression and said their cause was for Indians mistreatment back in the 1800's. They only used that as an excuse to some of their crimes. I lived there during those years too, and it was like a war zone being a white in that world. My family purchased land from the tribe back when they could sell it, rented land from the tribe, hired indians to work for us, so we had the respect and were left alone. When they came selling the commodities from the government for beer money, or came begging we would give what we could to help them out. <br />I am not racial or against natives. Like I said I grew up with them on the reservation, went to school with them, worked with them, and did business with the tribe and tribal members. I could go on for days with real life knowledge but won't. There will always be those who are mislead on the indians current way of life. One of my very good friends told me that he will never get a permanant job. He will never have to work a day in his life as long as he stays on the reservation. He has free housing that he destroyed because he will get another when he wanted it. He worked for me but would only show up a few days a week whenever he wanted because he didn't care if he worked or not. It was a learned behavior. He never said anything was the white mans fault, he just used the system. <br />He is dead now, died before he was 25 from driving drunk.<br />Average life on the Rosebud is less than 35 years old. The highest cause of death is alcohol. That is not a problem white men caused. <br />I could go on for days about the reality of the Rosebud, but enough said from me.
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Interesting Situation...

Man, the Indians that weren't killed should have received nothing more than the lives they were living. That's it, nothing more. And asking "what right did we have to take their land?" is about as ignorant as it gets. What right did the barbarians have to sack Rome? What right did Napoleon have to build his empire? What right did the Saxons have to take what we now call Scotland from the Pict's? And while we're at it, what right Russia have to take Eastern Europe?<br /><br />It's like the issue of slavery. Did you know that 40% of the slaves taken from Africa were taken to South America by the Portuguese? The Dutch were the first Europeans to use African slaves, that they bought from black Africans. Slavery was long practiced in Africa before the Dutch discovered it, and it is still practiced there today. Slaves were the only commodity they had to trade at the time. The biggest purchasers of slaves were the Portuguese and Spanish. Americans bought very few, yet of all the descendants of the slaves, the only ones b*tching about it are the ones in America; the ones who enjoy the highest standard of living. Ignorance, sheer bloody ignorance.<br /><br />As far as the Indians, they got far more than they deserved. The US government did what no one else would, the Spanish just killed any natives that weren't happy living under their rule.
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Interesting Situation...

Originally posted by Drowned Rat:<br />Most Indians around here work very hard for what they have, which is very little. It's commendable and they have my respect.
I'm glad Drowned Rat has a favorable experience and opinion of Native Americans. Sadly, however, my own personal experience is directly opposite, much like Deputy Dawg's. Of the Indians I have seen, most DON'T work hard, and have a lot.<br /><br />I have seen more than one Native American buy a brand new car, only to take it joy-riding in the hills three months later and abandon it with a flat tire because retrieving it would be an inconvenience, and the next brand-new car is just around the corner.<br /><br />Half my extended family lives on a reservation (my aunt married a Native American). I'm not stereotyping, this is direct experience. My cousin's house payment is $112 per month, while my own is over 10 times that. Of my extended family, only the women are steadily employed, yet they ALL own nicer homes than I do.<br /><br />My experience isn't limited simply to my own family, or one reservation. A very good friend of mine was a Tribal Officer for a while. Beyond just the stories I heard, by hanging around with him I saw much of it first hand.<br /><br />I don't harbor any racial bias against them. Am I jealous? I'll be honest, I am a little, but not terribly so. I still subscribe to Ralph's point of view, an agreement is an agreement. But don't come crying to ME about opression, because it isn't there, and I have no sympathy for your woes.
 

Drowned Rat

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Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Interesting Situation...

Okay, I'm not sure why it should be different rules for different tribes, but the tribes here in Arizona don't get all the perks you guys are talking about. The way the tribes work here is each one is a miniature self sustaining society. Everybody who can work, does. Either in the casino or farming or giving tours or working as a mechanic or whatever. All the money they earn goes into a huge pot that's used to pay for tribal necessities. Food, housing, health care. If you're a tribe member and you get sick, you go to the hospital the bill is paid out of this pot. Same thing for all public services. The casino worker makes the same as the farmer who makes the same as the janitor and so on. Those who are unable to work or are retired receive the same benefits. For big projects, the government helps with the funding, but then the government gets something out of it in return. For example, the government helped build a coal power plant on the Navajo nation and in return excess power is returned to the grid, and there is a lot of excess power.<br /><br />Nobody gets free cars, or houses, or anything else. The tribes pay for everything they have. They lead a meager life and are in no way materialistic. They drive older cars and pickups. They live in VERY simple block houses and in some cases they still live in hogans that they build themselves. They grow their own food and raise their own stock. They weave their blankets and make their own clothes. They raise and teach their own children. Their towns have very little in the way of infrastructure, just the bare necessities. These people are POOR, they don't have anything other than what they need to live. Whenever I interact with them, usually at the hospital, they are always respectful and very appreciative. <br /><br />I'm not sure why there is such a difference. Anyway, these people have lived here for thousands of years and we've been here for about 250 years. That's how I look at it, but I also understand that that's just me.
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Interesting Situation...

They want freedom/independance, they got it, IMHO. Go ahead and give up YOUR stake on this rock and see what they do with it. Your choice. Don't drive by, it will be TRASHED inside of two weeks.<br /><br />Unfortunately we support them with medical care, etc.<br /><br />
Nobody gets free cars, or houses, or anything else. The tribes pay for everything they have. They lead a meager life and are in no way materialistic. They drive older cars and pickups. They live in VERY simple block houses and in some cases they still live in hogans that they build themselves. They grow their own food and raise their own stock. They weave their blankets and make their own clothes. They raise and teach their own children. Their towns have very little in the way of infrastructure, just the bare necessities. These people are POOR, they don't have anything other than what they need to live. Whenever I interact with them, usually at the hospital, they are always respectful and very appreciative. <br />
BS. I'm in AZ too. I have no idea what tribes you're looking at, nor do I know what color glasses you're looking at them through.<br /><br /> "Grow their own food-right! Again-BS. Ever seen a thin "Native American"? I haven't. There is enough gov't cheese, bread, etc to feed all of Apalachia.<br /><br />We build houses for them only to find they out knock out a wall so the horse (starved) can drink out of the toilet. The Navajo, Pima and other nations reservations are littered/covered with boken beer/hard liquor bottles. Been there-seen it.<br /><br />The Casinos here in AZ are covered up with patrons, 24/7. That, in itself, is pathetic.<br /><br />It seems that todays society has plenty of money to throw at slot machines but doesn't give a damn about their own children or their own retirement.<br /><br />Those that want to patronize their gambling establishments, go ahead. Don't come looking to me for your retirement funds.<br /><br />Strong words-Yes. But, I believe every one of them.<br /><br />I'm tired of the handouts for those that mock us and don't want any part of the society that surrounds them.<br /><br />Get over it.
 

Drowned Rat

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Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Interesting Situation...

There is alot you don't understand about these people and there are reasons for the way they are if you look closely enough. But anyway... <br /><br />Who are the patrons of their casinos? Who's pathetic? There are a lot of idiots out there and not all of them are Indian. You can't form an opinion of them based on what you see in Phoenix.
 

OLDSPUD

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 13, 2004
Messages
348
Re: Interesting Situation...

Who's pathetic?<br /><br />Most Indian reservations except the one where all the outstanding Native Americans live.<br /><br />Those who have experienced the other reservations arn't backing up this one Tribe or reservation. My experiences have been like I said, rather poor. The average (sorry for the over generalization) native american living on these reservations, are not stellar examples for the ones Drowned Rat works with. <br /><br />I am afraid, with this one group of Americans, I do and will judge differently, even to the point of pre-judging them, not to offend them or deni them any political gain or happiness, but for my own protection<br /><br />I'm sorry<br />Spud
 

ZmOz

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Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: Interesting Situation...

Drowned Rat, I'm sure there are plenty of indians who are upstanding citizens and work hard for everything they have. Unfortuneately, they are the exception, not the rule...
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Interesting Situation...

sheet we should have killed them all. only good injun be a dead injun. the US should have tripled the bounty on injun skulls and quadurpled the bounty on female injun skulls<br /> now we have a chance to elimininate all rag heads. next will be all nips,gooks,chinks and other mongols. then we can start on the poles, russians and other non-true whites. when thats done lets eliminate the spanish, when thats done we can eliminate the french, frogs wont mind, when thats done the aussies and the canooks should be next as they are mostly non-white and easy pickings, when thats over I guess the brits are next but no worries we will save the latinos to rebuild everything to our specs.<br />sheet<br /> i am a genius.<br /> I just solved all the unemployment in the US and solved all the race issues for the next 200 years
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Interesting Situation...

I base my observations from living and working in the following states.<br /><br />Michigan<br />Pennsylvania<br />Louyisiana<br />Missisippi<br />Alabama<br />Minnesota<br />Wosconsin<br />North and South Dakota<br />Iowa<br /><br />I also have some very close indian freinds who are their own societies biggest critics.<br /><br />As for pathetic, I find anyone feeding a slot machine at 7:30AM on a Wednesday morning-pathetic.<br /><br />rodbolt wrote<br /><br />
sheet we should have killed them all. only good injun be a dead injun. the US should have tripled the bounty on injun skulls and quadurpled the bounty on female injun skulls<br />now we have a chance to elimininate all rag heads. next will be all nips,gooks,chinks and other mongols. then we can start on the poles, russians and other non-true whites. when thats done lets eliminate the spanish, when thats done we can eliminate the french, frogs wont mind, when thats done the aussies and the canooks should be next as they are mostly non-white and easy pickings, when thats over I guess the brits are next but no worries we will save the latinos to rebuild everything to our specs.<br />sheet<br />i am a genius.<br />I just solved all the unemployment in the US and solved all the race issues for the next 200 years <br />
Now that IS NONSENSE.
 

Realgun

Commander
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
2,484
Re: Interesting Situation...

I can't coment cause it would just be the same thing over and over and...
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
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Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Interesting Situation...

I'm with Ralph.<br /><br />Cept for rodbolt, it ain't easy to tell how much sarcasm to read into some a those posts. SW, it just don't matter whether Alexander the Great was "right" or "wrong" to conquer the world, or whether the Spanish laid waste to Latin America. S'just not relevant. Never thought I'd hear you say that America ought to be just like Greece or Spain or Italy any other European monarchy or empire or whatever.<br /><br />The indigenous people of North America got a raw deal. Plenty of their descendants are still getting raw deals. Some have learned to work the system to their own advantage. Some (I bet most) are hardworking honest Americans who want to do the right thing by their country and families. Some are trapped in a cycle of crime and poverty perpetuated and enabled by U.S. government beaurocracy.
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Interesting Situation...

jtexas, I disagree. The cycles of crime and poverty (and alcoholism) isn't perpetuated and enabled by the U.S, but rather perpetuated and enabled by their OWN social structure.
 

Johnshan1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
739
Re: Interesting Situation...

I have a few friends who have never stepped foot onto an indian reservation, they get free college in the state of maine, all expenses paid! They get a check from the govt every quarter. <br /><br />Again, they have never even been on tribe land.<br /><br />This is where I get pissed off.
 

90skichallenger

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
234
Re: Interesting Situation...

Gentleman,<br />I am an American Indian. I have a job, and take nothing free from the govt. I am sorry, but I am the rule not the exception. All you who criticize need to take a lesson from my sncestors....Dont open your mouth until you know you are right. Basically yall know I am a laid-back guy. But this is starting to really annoy me. I did not realize there were so many narrow-minded bigots on iboats. All these people spouting cra@ out of their mouth without knowing any of their history. If yall were talking about blacks or jews, this would have been stopped a long time ago, but screw the indian. The facts are simple theamerican indian was and still is screwed by the whiteman. If you think having a casino makes up for the Trail of Tears, or the Blankets full of smallpox, or the rape of women that was overlooked. The history of the western expansion is a bloody expose on greed, dishonesty, theivery, rape and slaughter. Before you open your mouth to condemn an entire race of people...KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.<br />Back to being mild (for now)<br />Later,
 

Johnshan1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
739
Re: Interesting Situation...

By the way, all this stuff happened over a hundred years ago and all of you guys still use it to tell everyone that YOU suffered something, get over it and get in the real world no one is holding the indian blood against you but yourself!<br /><br />These guys deserve NOTHING.
 
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