I'm sick of propaganda

mikeandronda · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

The thing is that when someone else steps on my toes by forcing their beliefs, habits or lifstyle on me.....its not the middle ground.......I have got many friends and relitives who smoke, some are rude nobs who I dont invite over cuz they cant handle respecting me and my family.... others are people who understand that some people are truly disgusted by it ....some people struggle with see it and not doing it......and some people just dont wantto take anymore of a chance to get sick or harmed by something that is caused by someone elses habit......now If you do it away from those who dont want it by them or in your own house, you have every right. I think that is the middle ground.........By the way DJ if you were in my boat I may......and I mean may allow a cigar to be smoked.......as long as it was a good one

Twidget · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

DJ said

Rude smokers are just that-rude. So are rude: 1. Boaters. 2. Drivers. 3. Fellow employees.

I think that is the point exactly. Everyone has the right to smoke. Rude smokers are what most of this debate is really about. Personally, I dont want to eat in a restaurant full of smoke. I do sort of expect it in a bar though.

DJ · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

mikeandronda, Bravo. You are entitled to those choices. I applaud you. As I see it, you have figured it out. In most cases, it's your choice. As mentioned, rude people abound. As for riding in your boat, I WOULD NOT partake, unless you did. It's YOUR boat, and I would be a guest. We could all learn a lesson from that attitude. His Peace.

fireman57 · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

The thing is that when someone else steps on my toes by forcing their beliefs, habits or lifstyle on me.....its not the middle ground. Mike this is your quote. My whole argument on another thread is that the "other side" uses this tactic everytime. You don't want others beliefs forced on you so you feel put upon but by stating it like you did you are forcing your beliefs on others. This knife cuts both ways. I said my piece earlier and just caught up on this thread but I think that it has run it's course. I'm finished with it.

POINTER94 · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Read some strange things so far. Like restaurants being public places. They are not. They are privately owned and for some reason there are those would would like to tell people how to run their busness. I don't care if your customers would like to smoke, we will dictate to you how to run your busness. Your will conform comrade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to Russia. Another beauty is that smoking is raising health care costs. You have to make some fairly interesting leaps to get to that. Smoking tends to take those quickly and cheaply (heart attacks and lung cancer). Unlike Alzeimers, and other types of cancers. Speaking of that, obesiety raises our healthcare to a greater extent than smoking. When can the food police come over and supervise what you can put in our faces. It isn't fair that us thin people should pay for those who eat big mac's, in fact where is my lawyer we should sue ALL FAST FOOD JOINTS. See the foolishness. But remember healthcare is already covered that is what the cig tax is all about, except the government has stolen this money and it is not for healthcare. They are liars, and they are theives. In Wisconsin they stole the settlement money for the general coffers within one year. I feel their concern for my health. Want to really deal with a scary issue. Water. Chlorine is a cancer causing agent. Every glass is killing you and your children. You know what else is in there? Birth control, as we recycle water the hormones in birth control cannot be filtered out. One big happy sterile country. Do you have any idea how many schools are serviced with lead pipes. But the cost is too high to replace them so we just poison our children. Hear any radio ads about this? It just isn't PC. For those who think we shouldn't smoke when we are around them, please just don't stand around us when we are smoking. If it is really that bad why not make them illegal. They don't care, it's about the money and for some groups its about just being selfish and the wood they get from pushing people around with lawyers. Your kids shouldn't be in bars if you don't want them exposed to smoke. That is what bars are for. But just in case lets ban cars, trucks, fireplaces, charcol grills, buring barrels, outdoor leaf burning, waste oil burners, any and all metropolitan areas, factories, indoor heating. Nobody here is complaining about not smoking in airplanes, or in hospitals or in schools or even public buildings. But this super-sensitive reaction to the occasional exposure to a cigarette should be the last thing that bothers anyone. I could and would be happy to make a list of things other people do that I would like to make illegal.

mikeandronda · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Fireman how is saying I dont want to breath YOUR second hand toxic fumes forcing my beliefs on you I could care less if you smoke cow dung just dont force me too. Pointer, Im sure plenty of restraunts would do just fine if they went either way nonsmoking or smoking but I tell you what, I will not eat somewhere where I cant stand the smell so its my guess most resuraunts would rather keep all there customers and make it non smoking.Im pretty sure nobody gonna say I wont eat at so and so resturuant cuz I cant smoke there. Also I lost my Grandfather and Grandmother to emphasima s/p? and my mother is now dying of it all from smoking for years......ITS A SLOW A PAINFUL DEATH I would wish upon only our enemies in the mid east.....ooops that was not very Christian of me

Now dont get me wrong if Government has to come in and do something about this its because of rude,obnoxious peolple who dont get that not everybody wants to breath their smoke....its not a big deal to keep it away from non smokers. I agree with you that the Gov. really could care less about our health but I care about mine and my family......you bring up some valid points Im all for starting a new topic on clorine in the water or hormones or whatever but why should I have to hide from smokers in a public place. Smokers need to understand that their habit to non smokers is very repulsive.... first off if you were able to smell things like a nonsmoker you might understand this. Its not super-sensitive thing, you guys are super-unsensitive

...its their bad habit they should move away from non-smokers.....oh and If I dont go to bars why would my kids be in one.....just a question. I do think in a bar situation its probably not gonna ever be smoke free unless people lobby and push to make cigs illegal.........but as said before there to much money in the Biz......my guess that wont happen.

mikeandronda · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

sorry double post

POINTER94 · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Mike, You wrote: Im sure plenty of restraunts would do just fine if they went either way nonsmoking or smoking but I tell you what, I will not eat somewhere where I cant stand the smell so its my guess most resuraunts would rather keep all there customers and make it non smoking. I know lots of people who go only to restaurants that allow smoking. Also it should be the owner of the restaurant to decide whether it is smoking or non, not the governments. They are his customers not the governments. That is my beef. If a great rest. is non-smoking and I want to eat there then sobeit. But in NY City and Florida and the state of California, that isn't how it works. NO SMOKING so says big brother. Draconian. I know what you are saying, but trust me they are making second class citizens out of taxpaying law abiding productive members of society. You and I don't have beefs

, been here to long for that, but it is an erosion of our rights that this boils down to.

mikeandronda · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

I hear you pointer, You and I have almost always agreed on most if not all topics you and I have posted on ..... When I lived up there in the north ( Lacrosse ) They had a no smoking policy in place so I have to say I thought it was great but I guess I dont want the government telling me how to run my bussiness so I will concede that it should be up to the resturaunt.....now in public well that another story. Edit : So no Beef here you either pointer

allthough if Im gonna debate with anybody Pointer, DJ, oddjob,JB (and 12fter though I havnt seen him in awhile) would be the most worthy advasaries on this forum so in truth I enjoy a little verbal sparing

CJY · Aug 2, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Restaurants are privately owned, but used by the public. I agree Pointer, as an owner of a business I would not want the gov telling me what I have to do. I think we are a ways from that point. Before it happens, owners of certain types of establishments will already be on board. At least it is happening in the area I live in. A local chain / franchise has began a no smoking policy about a year ago under. Other restaurants said they would not for fear of losing business. The first to take the plunge has enjoyed an increase in profits over the last year. Others in the area are now taking a closer look at the non-smoking policy. As stated earlier in a post, smokers are the minority and who do you think family restaurant owners would prefer to alianate? I think the key to other owners getting on board or not is dependant upon the type of establishment they own. A bar, most likely dependent on the smoking crowd to make money. A family owned resaurant, less dependent on the smoking crowd. I am not disagreeing that it is your right to smoke where allowed, and you may do so all you like. I simply do not go to those places, and the owners of those places(family oriented) are beginning to figure out more money can be had by appealing to non-smokers.

oddjob · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

I havent read the posts posted here today except Mike and ronda referring to DJ to chill. What I have a problem with is folks like you Mikeandronda that did the extreme indulgence got straight, and now you want to save the rest of us so you dont have to be reminded of your past failures. My dad once said," the only thing worse than a born again christian is a recovered alcoholic. I was once framed in the navy by a leading petty officer because I would let him save me. I woke one day with his hand on my chest while he was speaking touge(sp). After all the damage was done and I was shipping out, he apoligized. I didnt except it. Do gooders will feel that the end justifies any means. Do ya'll feel me now?

mikeandronda · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Whoa oddjob....I aint trying to save you or anybody else......and me explaining my past wasnt anything more then saying that I know what its like to be on both sides and understand how hard it is to quit. And by the way other peoples failures do not remind my of my past failures only my past victories

I do want to help kids/teens get out of the lifestyle I lived, but you oddjob, I could care less. Drink, smoke,shootup whatever. I really could care less if you smoke or not .....for like the 2,3,4 or 5th time, just dont do it by me or my kids in public place.... Oh and now you want to bring up witnessing....guess what Im a "BORN AGAIN" I witness to people too but, I would never speak to to someone who was not interested, so lumping me in with some jerk who tried to force you to believe his beliefs and when you did not tried to frame you or whatever is kinda lame.I find it laughable that when a non-Christian feels free to discuss christainity in a negative way its freedom of speech but when a Christian wants to discuss his beliefs its forcing it on someone.....get real..........I think your grasping at straws here.....kinda like a left wing tactic to change the topic or shift the blame. What this about is forcing others to breath your second hand smoke....it has broken down into two directions....public and private property...... It is my guess you believe you should be able to smoke anywere and around anyone public or not. Once again I will say its people like you that are going to force people to lobby against smoking in public and your kind of people will no one to blame but yourselves when you will have to hide from socity so you can smoke. In this country its not freedom for anybody to do anything........YOUR NOT FREE TO HARM OTHERS and if you do well it just shows what kind of person you must be. I will try and say this in a PC way I know there are many peopl with your feelings that have major issues with people flaunting their type of lifestles on you, but low and behold here you are forcing your habits on others.....I guess you really have no right to complain about things others are forcing on you.

oddjob · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Hey!...whats your thoughts about the first hand smoke of incense burning in some various churches?

I believe that second hand smoke, by me, outdoors, does not harm anyone because I have the common sense to be considerate of others ( smokers or non- smokers) BTW 1. I believe in Christ. 2. Dont do all the drugs you mentioned except alcohol and tobacco. (btw I dont take over the couter meds or pain killers except when Im near death). 3. I work out daily and encourage and consult others to do the same if they show interest. 4. I like and care for people, of all ages( christian or not). I do have a probem with cults, and I believe muslim fits the catagory.

It is my guess you believe you should be able to smoke anywere and around anyone public or not.

Guess ( or read ) again. Sorry, I wont lump you even though I believe you just lumped me and some others. Thats what this thread is about for me. You dont want to see my point, or to you I'm just not making one...Ok.... I still admit that I enjoy your posts, I think your a good person and you mean well. Could I do without the two?.....probably.... But I figure after getting up at 5:30am, working out for 40 minutes, taking my 12 and 9 year old boys to two different schools, drive back the other direction to work in miami and work 9 hours, spend another hour picking them up by 6:00, then get home and have dinner ready in a jiff..,........At 8:00pm at home or whenever I have a chance during the day....I think I want to relax for a minute with a coke and smoke. Sometimes in my home I enjoy a Bourbon and smoke. And I dont regret it one bit. So....preach all you want to me here on this forum....but if you need to talk to me outdoors and face to face then you might have to have some tolerance or a few feet of distance. I love you, no chit.

oddjob · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

BTW, MikeandRonda,I apoligize for saying you went to the extreme. I dont know everything about you and I assumed I did. I made a mistake. And it was low. Forgive me.

What I have a problem with is folks like you Mikeandronda that did the extreme indulgence got straight, and now you want to save the rest of us so you dont have to be reminded of your past failures.

mikeandronda · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Hey Oddjob we are ok, I really didnt take it all personal....well maybe a little.

I was a bit harsh in my last post as well so I apolagize as well. Its a stressful world we live in and we all have little things we do to cope with all the garbage that we all face everyday.....ifs it a coke and a smoke for you thats ok, and in truth I was jabbing at you in my last post and its my guess your a pretty decent guy and wouldnt do something to offend anybody unless they had it coming

I probably never would have posted on this topic but it seems that some peole get awfully defensive about their right to smoke.....I understand that but I think that many of them feel that if they give up any freedom, including freedoms that harm others it will be detramental to their rights to smoke or whatever else they do. I believe its the exact opposite......If smokers are carful not to offend( and yes I know some people are offended way too easy) that there will be little anybody can or will do. I have seen this subject blow up into name calling and threats on this board before and I just cant understand why its as big of a deal. In public be considerate of all.....In private is a free for all as far as Im concerned. If I dont like what goes on at an establishment I and mine wont go to it.........I understand the slippery slope this if they can make Cigs illegal maybe it will be public displays of faith next.......and that is scary but I liken smoking around as in breathing proximity to non-smokers like the people who show up on your door steps and try to convert you to their religion.......not cool.

DJ · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Oddjob, read the whole thing before you pass judgement. My beliefs are stong, whole and I will not water them down. One can be forcefully opiniated, without being obscene.

oddjob · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Yes DJ I was in a hurry and didnt do my homework (read) as I mentioned. My bad, just trying to multy(sp)-task a bit too much. Was I obscene?

or too watered down? or none of the above? catch this tommorrow.

DJ · Aug 3, 2005

Re: I'm sick of propaganda

Was I obscene?

No.

I'm sick of propaganda

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