If you have high charge voltage, please read

[RRitt]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I hold an electrical engineering degree from one of the top 5 engineering colleges in the country (exact pecking order shifts from year to year). So I would put this forward as a definitive answer.

Some Force engine do not have a voltage regulator.
They have a square bridge rectifier only. It is a standard square bridge in a standardized size and shape (about 1" square, less than 1/2" thick, four spade connectors sticking out of bottom, 1/4" hole through middle). Any square bridge rated 40A or higher is as good or better than the original. You can mail order a better than new from Mouser or Ebay for under $5. Voltage rating on rectifier does not matter since the lowest possible rating is 10times higher than what is needed. If it looks even close to right shape then it is. If it has 35A or more then it will work just fine. The holes in spade lugs are not threaded. Force uses US threads (not metric) so you may want to buy a 8-32 tap or some 8/32 stainless self-tapping screws (or crimp spade connectors onto wiring).

Now - about that overvoltage & charging thing:
The battery is your voltage regulator.
If you have overvoltage at engine then there are only a few possible causes.
#1 is that you have your meter set to AC. AC voltage measurement is different from DC. Your boat runs on DC electricity and you need to keep your meter on DC.
#2 is that there is something wrong with your wiring or connections. If the battery cable is too long or if some of the connections are corroded then the engine has to put out extra voltage to compensate.
#3 is that your battery is bad. Just measure the voltage across battery terminals making sure to contact the actual battery posts.

What does this mean?
It means that overvaltage at engine is probably caused by bed battery cabling. If your battery was bad then it would keep going dead and you would be complaining about that instead. Some slight overvoltage at engine is normal because some slight voltage loss in battery cable is normal. If you read 16V at engine and 12V at battery then you are losing 4V in the wiring. This is too much. You will lose 4V when starting too. IMO, you have a wiring problem with wiring that needs to be fixed.

If you have water around your battery then this means that your boat leaks. Batteries use acid.

YOU SHOULD NEVER RUN ENGINE WITH BATTERY DISCONNECTED
The battery is your voltage regulator. If you run engine with battery disconnected then you might fry your stereo, your engine ignition CDI, your depth finder, and any other stuff with small transistors inside.

 

[Jimmy627]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Yes it has the outboard power head. The L-Drive is from what I am told is a outboard that's inboard

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Jimmy,

It should work if the powerhead is the same. Look for the recifier on the left side, just behind the starter.

Good luck,

John

 

[Matthew A.]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Hi all,
I have a question concerning RRitt's response regarding reasons of overvoltage and was hoping RR might shed some more light on the subject.

The question I have is that I notice that my boats battery voltage raises as the batteries (I have 2 batteries connected via Blue Seas automatic charging relay and Blue Seas Batt. selector switch) is when the batteries or battery (depending upon their condition of charge and/or whether I have manually selected the batteries to be "combined" or not "combined".
(Charging relay is set to automatically "combine" both batteries whenever the "sensed" voltage of the main battery is above 12.6 volts. I can also override the auto setting and manually combine or uncombine both batteries should I choose to do so. The charging relay disconnects or uncombines the no.2 battery should "sensed" voltage of the main battery drop below 12.6 or rise above 15.5 volts. This protects the secondary battery from overcharging and protects the main battery from becoming discharged should the secondary battery voltage fall below that of the main batteries selectable "dropout" voltage of 12.6 volts.
As long as one or both batteries will take some voltage to reach a fully charged condition the voltage will stay below 16 volts. However, once the battery or batteries begin to become fully charged the voltage will begin to climb respectfully to their condition of charge. Once fully charged does the voltage climb above 16 volts.
I have always noticed a tendency of as the closer the battery is to becoming fully charged the higher the voltage of the system. This tendency is one that has always been the behavior of my motor. Regardless of running only a single battery setup or my current 2 battery ACR controlled setup.
As long as I can put a load on the system, either from requirements of battery/s or accessory/s, the voltage remains rather constant at 13.8-14.2 volts. No load on system, battery/s become fully charged and no demand from accessory/s voltage will rise to 16 plus volts over a short period of time depending upon engine rpms and run time.

 

[Mark42]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

In my real world experience, if there is 18V coming off the rectifier, then there is 18v going to the radio, depthfinder, lights, and battery. I have not seen the "voltage regulating" ability of the battery, as the volt meter indicates 18v on the system. All my wire connections and sizing is very good.

If the battery regulated the voltage from the magnito, then manufacturers would not bother putting expensive votage regulators on their outboards.

BTW, you may have noticed that small riding mowers often do not get more than two years from a battery. Thats because most of the motors do not have a voltage regulator and cook the battery all the time. Some larger tractors do have voltage regulators, and that same battery is good for 4-6 years.

 

[RRitt]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

If you disconnect your battery you should start seeing voltage spikes that greatly exceed 18V. It's the spikes that might fry your electronics.

 

[zoe'sdad]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Is it part number 01-090-1 universal regulator for electric start snowmobiles to replace OEM part number 410.9113? Found that information on sledparts.com. It had a picture that matched what you were describing.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

That's the one. It is made for snowmobiles with charging systems and works great on Force engines. Mine has never risen above 14.5 since installed. Usually, it is running about 14.1 since I keep the battery on a tender when the boat is sitting at the house.


Regards,

John

 

[zoe'sdad]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

So I would by-pass the rectifier and abandon it in place? Just cut the wires leading to and from the rectifier and splice in the regulator wires and mount to the exhaust plate. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your instructions.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

You have it correct. Remove the rectifier and splice the regulator wires to the existing wires red to red, black to ground, yellow stripped to the other two in any order as they are AC. I cleaned the area on the exhaust plate to make a good ground although I don't know that it needs it as it has a black ground wire going into the unit.

Don't forget to hook up the puple wire to one of the AC wires as that is your tachometer impulse feed.

Regards,

John

 

[yfz450guy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

well finally got around to ordering the regulator and mine hade a 4 pin plug on the end of the wires. i was expecting bare ended wires. the black wire does not come out of the case. what gives?

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I believe the case is grounded internally so all you need to do route the black wire terminal to one of the mounting holes on the regulator. This will give it a ground externally through the black wire that you connect to the spade lug in the plastic connector.

I believe the only wiring changes I had to make was to change the round lug connectors to spade connectors to plug into the regulator wires. The terminal ends and crimpers can be found at any Pep Boys or Advance Auto store.

Regards,

John

 

[yfz450guy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

well thats what i did but, the black wire goes from the starter mount to the mounting hole on the regulator. really does nothing. also i could not mount mine to the head and my bolts zig zag along the edge and can't use those bolts without some sort of spacer to raise it up to clear the middle bolt. i just mounted it to the same hole that the rectifier was in.
i really hope it works. i have waited all winter to do this mod and can't afford to re-do it.
thanks for you reply.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Can you email me a picture to johnandnanc182@yahoo.com? If you do, I will reply with a picture of my installation.

John

 

[yfz450guy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

well, i got off a little early and headed out to the lake and tossed the boat in.
she fired right up and the volt meter said i like the new 12.6v. as i idled out of the docking area the meter went to 13.5 and at full speed (53 mph) she was sitting at 13.9 - 14.2. !!!!! woo hoo!!!
i think i have bought my last battery for this boat.
my thanks to john and anyone else who did the r&d on this and i think that everyone with one of these motors should do this mod.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Good luck and happy fishing.

John

 

[GrindKore]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I'm waiting for my universal voltage regulator to arrive, it will replace my Radio-Shack sub $3.00 home made rectifier http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=305192

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

The regulator is more expensive than the rectifiers but your battery and electronics will thank you for it.

John

 

[GrindKore]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I finally got my regulator today and hooked it up, now I get 14.6 at WOT and 13.2 at idle. One thing I noticed though. The green/yellow wire which is AC must be the one used for tach hookup. If reversed the tach reading will jump all over.

Thanks for sharing with us john.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

The position of the AC wires should not make a difference as far as tach operation as they are Alternating Current. However, I noticed the same thing on my engine. One AC wire makes the tach jump around more and using the other makes it steadier. I have no idea why this is happening. We would probably need an electronics engineer to figure this one out.

Glad to be of assistance, pass it on to some other poor seaman in distress.


John