I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

[gonfishn]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Ditto to Jb. Old Soldiers never die we just wish we were 30 years younger again. This one will be nothing like Vietnam or any other war. This one will effect all of us and its going to be real bad for the whole world......If the big one is let loose I want to be under it.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

62-Kiwi respectfully asked:<br />"If you were President Bush, and your country had just been attacked as per 9/11 and you were responsible for the security of your people (and for that matter the rest of western world) and given the above facts.....what would you do?" <br /><br />I'd attack my attackers with brutal force. Much like has ALMOST been completed in Afghanistan. I'd not open up several fronts to leave my country or my allies open and vulnerable.<br /><br />We have troops in Afghanistan, Bosnia and soon to be, a massive troop count in Iraq. <br />ALMOST PREDICTABLY, North Korea wants a piece of our 30-40,000 troops present in the south to settle an old score. All it would take now is for China to settle another old score by the way of Taiwan, or should I say Formosa.<br /><br />The war on terrorism is just, deserved and far from over. It's going to take MUCH, MUCH more then what has been given to it. It would be very easy to feel good and proud about this war if it was about winning the war on terrorism. The attack on Iraq is the WRONG PLACE at the WRONG TIME and will do nothing to keep us from being attacked by Islamic terrorists. Saddam is penny ante. On a threat scale to the United States he is a 1(ONE). The threat from Islamic terrorists for another attack to this country is 10 (TEN). I don't have a problem with going to war but it would be very wise to know what the real threat or enemy is!!!<br /><br />It isn't about oil or revenge, it's about POLITICS!!!!!!!!! And dang STUPID politics!!!!<br /><br />If Saddam is that bad, that big of a problem,then maybe some of European/Asian allies could take Iraq on ALONE, while we CONCENTRATE on our enemy and attackers. Obviously Europe or the rest of the world didn't have a problem with Iraq a year ago. At that time they were sincerely unified with us against our TRUE enemy. You are being fooled into thinking Saddam is THAT enemy. <br /><br />We are wasting time, energy and resources doing the Iraq thing now. If we keep fooling around we're going to get clobbered again. <br /><br />Instead of looking forward to the fireworks over Baghdad on the nightly news, we should be using those same resources to win the war on terrorism. If we were TRULY concentrating on that goal and that goal alone, you could best bet North Korea AND Iraq would be DEAD silent right now.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Hi Skinnywater<br /><br />Thanks for your reply to my question. Here's my 2 cents worth in regard to your reply.<br /><br />As JB said, President Bush would likely have a lot more information on this subject than us...and he always said that this war on terrorism would involve fighting on many fronts.<br /><br />Everything I've read about Saddam would indicate that he could become very dangerous to the west very quickly once he gets nukes (and he's been trying hard to get them). Can you think of anything more dangerous and powerful than a nuclear armed crazy guy ? He wouldn't have to actually use the nukes - his power would be that everyone would expect that he would use them. He could walk back into Kuwait - or any other neighbouring country he chooses - and what could anyone do about it? He'd just threaten to use his nukes - and everyone would believe that he's the sort of madman who would actually do it. The time to sort him out is BEFORE he gets nukes, not after...or before he makes a terror attack on the west, not after.<br /><br />Regarding fighting Al Qaeda at the same time as Saddam; The Al Qaeda war is now a shadow war, tracking down those illusive crazy men - it has not much use for aircraft carriers, cruise missiles, fighter jets and the like any more. Those forces may as well be eliminating another potential/future threat - Saddam.<br /><br />North Korea is already nuclear armed...that's bad news They should have been sorted out earlier (easy to say now...). All the more reason to deal with Saddam now in my opinion. It would be really bad news to have both Iraq and North Korea armed with nukes... <br /><br />You're right that now would be the right time for any of America's foes to act up. It's unfortunate that there are so many and it will stay that way until something is done about it. The world is a mess in that respect - hopefully the war on terrorism will clean things up a bit.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents...

 

[SCO]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Worth debate. Good points Skinneywater. I'm with Kiwi though because Saddam is terror related and we can take a big bite outta crime right there. We've got two instincts working here and I've got them both. One to hide/ freeze, two to go crazy like Dennis Hopper in Easy Rider.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I don't know what mercy said, but after reading this topic, I just have to put my .02 worth in here.<br />When you are called upon to serve your country, you do, although you might not think it's right.<br />If you are not willing to do that then you are just as bad as the people we are going to war against.<br />I lost a brother and 2 close friends in the 9/11 attack and I show no mercy for anyone or country that was involved.<br />I say whoever is responsible and those that helped should get the same justice as the people in NY did.<br />Those that don't like that can get out of our country and hide with all your pals.<br />You can run but you can't hide forever and the powers will seek and find and then destroy those that are responsible and any that helps them.

 

[Hooty]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

President Bush said "you're either with us,or against us"<br />What'll it be?<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty

 

[12Footer]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Spinner Bait Nut, I'm sorry for the personal loss.<br />Rest assured, that there are far more true Americans out here than the media portrays. Everything in our great country is put to the political torch, before a decision is made.However, the decision on retaliation was made from the Commander in Chief, and the people informed two days after the attacks.<br />The resolve is strong.

 

[zorro1]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

It is I mercey.<br /><br />First this.<br /><br />posted January 08, 2003 06:07 PM<br />QUOTE****foreign policies.. <br /><br />i can see were you could be afraid of the USA..an especially when we say jump the world says how high.. an tony blair says i can even jump higher,, master bush..<br /><br />it is scary.. an especially when it's out of your hands an ya have no control over any of it... high levels of anxiety in store for the next 10 years <br />************<br />Thank you.<br /><br />No control is not a faith in your country but I respect that.<br /><br />However.<br /><br />September the eleventh was a planetary desaster and not a local one....FACT.<br /><br />Q- Who did it?<br />A- Assama bin laden.<br /><br />Q- Where does he live?<br />A- Afghanistan.<br /><br />Q- Is he being revenged on for this?<br />A- Well we are there and lives are being lost in its doing. However we have not evedince in his death.<br /><br />WHY IRAQI ?<br /><br />Here is the answer.<br /><br />We are all subject to tabloidism. Iraqis have mass weapons of disruction!<br /><br />Lets backtrack here.<br /><br />Bin Laden?<br /><br />Saddam?<br /><br />Two entities.<br /><br />Same following on faith.<br /><br />Our goverments have us all running scared about Gas poisoning from Iraqu. (sorry I thought this was an Ossama thing) It it therefore convenient to bomb a country that as far as the UN is considered holds none of the above?<br /><br />I am not saying anyone is wrong, just that we should be very carefull on who'm to what we do.<br /><br />I have no gripe with you guys.<br />Thank you for what you have given me.<br />It is more than I have expected.<br /><br />Take care all. X<br /><br />M.J.T.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

mercey writes:<br />"I am not saying anyone is wrong, just that we should be very carefull on who'm to what we do".<br /><br />Otherwise this countys credibility gets on already shakey ground with the rest of the world and its own citizens.<br />Is that what you've been trying to say mercey??<br /><br />Kind or like being pi$$ed on ones leg while being told it's raining.<br />Yes Kiwi, we could just get rid of all the bad guys. However,since we are a world power with a Constitution and government based on extreme morals, principals, values and lofty dreams and ideals. Just how much credibility can we/US afford to lose?<br /><br />Fact. Saudi Arabia is the most is the most extremist/fundamentalist Islamic country of them all.<br />Fact. Saudi Arabia has a very totalitarian dictatorship and a repressive government.<br />Fact. The Saudi government has been found to fund terrorism.<br />Fact. Saudi Arabia harbors and protects most Islamic terrorist groups and wanted terrorist individuals.<br />Fact. We are told by our government they are our allies.<br />Fact. Twelve years ago we defeated Iraq's military in a week.Today we could do it in 2 days.<br />With or without Saddam having a nuke/gas/bio we could at any time do it in 1 HOUR!<br />Fact. Saddam is NOT A THREAT.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I'd like to thank everyone who's contributed to this debate, which has spanned several threads. It's interesting to hear people's opinions on the subject - and it's great that there have been no personal attacks or inflamatory statements (or none that I have noticed...). At the end of the day, we all want the same thing - for the terror attacks to stop and for the culprits to be brought to justice. We just have different ideas on how to achieve this.<br /><br />Skinnywater - I view the world as a community that keeps getting smaller, so it's no longer possible to live in isolation of each other. Now more than ever, the community needs a global police force and the UN does not seem to be forthcoming with what's required... The USA gains (not loses) credibility when it fills that role, in my opinion - so long as it sticks to the principles of upholding freedom, democracy, world security...and of course self defence. <br /><br />Like you, I also think that the Iraq battle will be a quick one - but let's hope that it's soon enough to not be a nuclear one.

 

[Moose_Miller]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I'd say that George W. has a better chance of actually using a nuke more than any president we've had to date, but will he actually do it? Or does he just have the Texan mentality (no offense intended) of "just try me"!<br /><br /> I got stopped by a Texas Highway Patrolman once outside Galveston. I was in my early twenties and sporting the all-famous 1980's mullet. Driving a bright red '83 Z-28, out of state plates, windows tinted so dark you couldn't see out of 'em in broad daylight (hey, it was the 80's). Anyhow, the whole time the trooper was chewing on me, he was tapping out a tune on the butt of his revolver with his fingernails. I don't figure he was going to shoot me NOW, but at the time, I wasn't real sure.<br /><br /> I got a hunch this is kind of why our President is being the way he is with Iraq. What good is having the nukes if people think you'll never use them? There's alot more people than just George that decide on using a nuke in the first place. Sure, he has the final say, but his advisors are only going to let him as a last resort. Just be glad Rumsfeld don't hold the "trigger"... he's plum crazy!

 

[SCO]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I wish I could comment about Rumsfield with some specialized knowledge, but cant other than what I know about him since this thing started. What I like about Rumsfield is that he comes across as saying what he means and meaning what he says. The irony is that to have the chance to avoid war, they have to know that we will actually fight. Post Somalia, we were tagged as paper tigers. That may have done more to endanger us and bring us to this point than anything else. It illustrates that the Dove approach is a choice in itself, and more dangerous than it seems. Good intentions, bad results.<br /><br />Back to riddles, quoting Mercey"Thank you for what you have given me.<br /> It is more than I have expected."<br />What did we give you?, and what did you expect? Also, when you sign "x", is that for Malcom X?

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Moose - you make a good point. Nukes are no use if nobody thinks you will use them.<br /><br />That to me, is the reason why Saddam would become the most powerful and dangerous force around if he got nukes. Everyone KNOWS that he's mad enough to use them.....even as a parting shot before he's exterminated <br /><br />If Saddam nuked the USA or it's Allies (heaven forbid) do you think President Bush would press the nuke button on Iraq ?? It's an interesting question...if you think not, then where has the "nuclear deterent" gone ? The trouble is...I don't think Saddam cares too much about what happens to his people

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Mercy the fact of the matter is we declared a war on TERRORISM and all who support, help, agree with, follow or even give a supportive speech in it's favor not just a war with Osama, Saddam or any other individual person or country but many. Saddam is a strong supporter of the use of terrorist tactics and as ruler of his country uses his position to support terrorists acts. I don't care one bit if he has nukes, poison, or just throws rocks I feel that he and his country should be rendered unable to support terrorists and their activities as should many, many other targets both individual and countries. That said yes there are other places we could start with but currently none so vocal as Iraq and their leader Saddam.<br />BTW if OIL has anything to do with the decision so be it this is gonna be a long, expensive and in some cases bloody war and the need to secure resources necessary to support it does need to be considered in planning and carrying it out.

 

[zorro1]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Quote From Skinny water.<br /><br /> posted January 12, 2003 10:30 <br />mercey writes:<br />"I am not saying anyone is wrong, just that we should be very carefull on who'm to what we do".<br /><br />Otherwise this countys credibility gets on already shakey ground with the rest of the world and its own citizens.<br />Is that what you've been trying to say mercey?? <br /><br />Says Skinny.<br /><br />I am not here to provoke allthough your reply seems mighty paranoid? Why? What County is it that you are worried about?<br /><br />Lets think clear. American economy is not too good at present. European economy is DIRE. The UK is not in the euro and we are enjoying the apparent best house prices in 80+ years. I bought mine in 90 for £126,000 ($298,000). Today it is worth £480,000 ($796,000) BUT....we are waiting for a CRASH. Everyone is selling to buy within mainlaind europe. I do believe that the redirection of this war from OSSAMA to SADDAM is a monetary and political stance. If I am wrong I shall get totally drunk and throw my computer into the river. And I promise to supply pictures!<br />Love to hear from ya all.<br />coorblimey@hotmail.com.

 

[SCO]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

EDIT: The language in this post is a bit too strong.<br /><br />We must avoid personal attacks. We debate ideas here, not personalities.<br /><br />Thanks, JB

 

[12Footer]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Amen, SCO!! And Mercey, ask Japan about "Sleeping Giants". Y'all shoulda just let us sleep,if that's what you thought we were doing pre-911.<br /><br />Perhaps America WAS asleep, or had it's head in the sand. But we were not invading Iraq. We weren't on a global hunt for terroist operatives.<br />Maybe our 'sin' was ignoring these worms. Well,trust me--- those days are over.<br />This nation has dealt with tyrants before, and then left the tyrant's homeland in the tyrant's countrymen's hands, as oppposed to occupation, as most invaders have done in the past. This is what sets America appart from Imperial Roman rule, Communismm, or Atilla the Hun.<br />WE only want peace, prosperity, freedom, and security for our children. Kinda like what every human wants globaly, but most of whom,never receive !<br />"You are either with us, or against us".<br />Surely, Ceasar could've uttered thos words long ago. Clearly, our system of government is as fundamentally flawed as ancient Rome...But it is better than allmost any other system going today.I think we will keep it. Brace yourself, Mercey. We will be strong,free, prosperous,and isolated from the dictatorships of the globe,provided they keep thier deranged operatives off of America or it's allies' soil!<br />If not, we will die by the millions if need be, to regain our domestic security.<br />

 

[SCO]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Allright Jb, but I'd call it a personal evaluation, not attack. At least you got to read it. I thought it a good bit of phraseology. I'll just jump to the conclusion:<br /><br />Those that make the reasons about money, imperialism, payback, only highlight a bias, and an incorrect one at that. It's about the attack visited on us. We are awake now.<br /><br />The revision just doesn't have the same impact. My awake punch line had some zing on the unplugged version.

 

[SCO]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Glad you saw the post 12!!

 

[JB]

Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

SCO.<br /><br />A "personal evaluation" that includes unqualified criticism of another's motives and thought processes is a personal attack.<br /><br />Neither you nor I have knowledge of Mercey's motives or thoughts. They are verboten territory.<br /><br />You are certainly articulate enough to attack the ideas without attacking the person. Do that.