I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Fishbusters

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Damn it not being as attentive as I should I missed the chance to read some good stuff. Anyway I can see and agree with anyone that looks at America right now and gets a little more than worried. Personally I like the fact that the world is a little worried about what we are capable of. I feel if they are scared of us then they will do their best to stay out of our way and it will be a lot easier to do what we have to do and deal with things the way they need to be dealt with. Someone in an above post hit the nail right on the head you have to be 200% committed to doing what has to be done in order to be able to di it quickly and with minimum casualties. If you look at history be it war, sports, business or whatever the folks that were the most dangerous and unstoppable also were the ones that threw themselves into the fray with all they had. This is the type of attitude it takes to win anything and this is the attitude I feel comfortable with America and our leaders having.
 

SCO

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Plywoody, I don't think you are anti American, but do find you views to be consistent with your geographical location on the Left Coast. What do you think we should ,as Americans, do to solve our current foreign policy problems? What should we do about being attacked as we were 9/11/01 to solve the problem that resulted in that attack? Lets leave this as rhetorical. I'll start a new topic. On second thought, this is just too divisive a topic. Nevermind.
 

12Footer

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

To sloopy, and anyone else who has not read the old thread, God bless America, I'm proud to be an American, (By Enrique Permintel),read it.<br /><br />You'll find that Mercey is against retaliation for 9/11/01, and it can be deduced from his postings, he is predominantly anti-Allies/Pro-axis in his heart-fealt beliefs. He is therefore, my ememy, and as such, anything I may post regarding him,or my own beliefs,should be construed as pro-american propaganda. So be it.
 

JB

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Ditto 12Footer.<br /><br />If someone had kicked Hitler's butt in 1938 WWII wouldn't have happened.<br /><br />If someone had kicked Japan's butt in 1937, Pearl Harbor wouldn't have happened.<br /><br />If we had done some serious butt kicking in 1994, after the Marines were murdered in Beruit, 9/11 might not have. . . . .<br /><br />You get the picture.<br /><br />"Let's Roll!"
 

62_Kiwi

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Things get so predictable sometimes...<br /><br />Nearly every time over the last 100 years (possibly longer) that the allied forces (USA, Britain & Co.) have had to go to war to preserve freedom and fight tyranny - there have been those that have bleated against it for whatever reasons.<br /><br />The common pattern is that doomsday is predicted before the war (remember what they were saying before WWII, Gulf War & Kosovo ?). Every time they get it wrong. After the war...for some mysterious reason everyone seems to forget about the protests and accept that it was the right thing to do........strange isn't it?<br /><br />Should we return things back to how they were before these wars??? I really don't think anyone would want that.<br /><br />Nobody likes wars, Policemen don't like using their weapons against people, peace-loving countries don't like using their military in agression......but sometimes....they have to in order to preserve law and order and the peaceful lifestyle that most of us want.<br /><br />Among other things, I look forward to the people of Iraq being liberated from their current oppressive and murderous leader.
 

NOSLEEP

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

62_KIWI<br />Most believe as you do, however we tend to take the path of least resistance.<br />Watch what people are cynical about,and one can often discover what they lack, and subconsciously, deeply wish they had.
 

miloman

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Ok Im 34 live in Canada. I have never served for my country and I dont think I will. My opinion about this whole issue is very simple. We all expect America to be there. To finance third world hunger, poverty, and global crisis. Right so America took one on the nose with 9/11 dont you think it has the right for retribution. The world can't expect big brother to be there when they need him and us not be there for him when he needs us.. That being said I am against the whole Iraq issue. Sure Sadam is a terrorism a fiend a dictator.......... The world is full of them....So why this guy? is it because of the vast oil reserves I think so The real power of the world (The American COrporations) want that oil they NEED that oil so they will get it. At the cost of the poor and uneducated. How many of you would want your sons and daughter to fight that war>>>>Yes your proud of your children for serving thier country but are you willing to have them lay down thier lives for it? Terrorists have to go that is agiven. I come from a country that recently underwent the upheavel of terrorism. And thanks to America I have 12 dead family members. BUt I also now have the rest of my family that lives in Freedom again thanks to America SO I say America go get them dont go 1/2 way you have to go all the way what do you think
 

snapperbait

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I must have missed something REALLY good... :confused: Oh well... <br /><br />Ahhh, the whole Iraq problem is just a simple fued between the Bush clan and the Hussein bunch over OIL, plain and simple...<br /><br /> Bush does not scare me one bit... The thing that bothers me is this, Is his Daddy George Sr. sitting back pulling Howdy W. Dooty's strings?... I wonder???... :confused: <br /><br />All in all, this little school yard fight between the U.S. and Iraq probably won't matter because in twenty or thirty years after the good ol' USA has laid waste to most of the Middle East, we'll be pumping mass amounts of money into the economy of these third world countrys... We'll probably be buying cars and small electronic devices from places like Iraq and Afghanistan just like we do from Japan, Germany, and Korea, just to name a few... :rolleyes:
 

ob

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

10-4 Snapperbait.Then we can stand at the back of the line at the unemployment office while America gives the left over Iraqi citizens jobs on the afirmative action program.
 

plywoody

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I am curious. How does where I live geographically offer anything of substance to this discussion?<br />It seems to me this is what we know for sure:<br /><br />1. The war on terror is far from over, and there is lots more effort to be spent on this.<br /><br />2. There has been no credible evidence offered to a link between Saddam and the terrorists, or anyone else associated with 9-11. Unubstantiated leaks, rumors, and inuendos, maybe, but nothing credible.<br /><br />3. As yet there is no evidence that Saddam poses an imminent threat to us or any other country, for that matter. There is no documented evidence of WMD, or of the ability to deliver them. The same cannot be said for Pakistan, North Korea, or any other of a number of rogue states.<br /><br />4. Except, unlike the other threats, Saddam sits on a huge reserve of oil that is worth billions.
 

JB

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

I think a point needs to be offered in this discussion.<br /><br />Isn't it really a bit naive to suppose that we know everything that our President knows about Iraq?<br /><br />I was once in a position to know some things that our government knew but would not reveal, even to support unpopular foreign policy decisions.<br /><br />Means of gathering information must be protected. By revealing what we have learned via tactic X we may eliminate Tactic X from further use and get valuable personnel and information suppliers killed.<br /><br />I am certain that my President knows things that we may never know, and that that information is at the root of his policy toward Iraq.<br /><br />And, of course, there is the "Code of the West". That Bushwhacker (pun intended) tried to kill my President (GW's Dad). Somebody GIT A ROPE!<br /><br />I will therefore support what he and his team decide to do.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

touche' mercey,<br />looks like the sauce is still simmerin' :rolleyes: <br />short term, war is comin' IMHO. hope the Iraqi<br />people play a large role in ousting this goof.<br />the world will be a better place w/o Sadaam!<br />long term, what would happen to all the Oil rich<br />countries if we didn't need gas to drive a car?<br />(they can still make a little for old o/b's)<br />should not be so dependent on the middle east<br />for anything IMHO.<br />also, GW is not smokin, like Clinton :eek: <br />this guy gassed his own people! what would he do<br />to the US if he had the opportunity?<br />I for one don't feel comfortable waiting to find out.<br />peace..... :D <br />M.Y.
 

plywoody

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

And I am sure that you supported the Viet Nam war all the way, and were sure that President Johnson knew what was best for us in that one as well.<br /><br />I don't care what they tell me. But if they know anything, they should at least tell the inspectors where to look, so that they could come up with some sort of "smoking gun".<br /><br />I have no doubt there is intelligence that we do not know. I have no doubt there are motivations for all sorts of actions that are not shared. Unlike you, I am just not as trusting in the motivations of any of our leaders.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

it's all a big conspiricy, they r out to get you dude. go join a camp in Wyoming, and be prepared?<br />spies r everywhere... shhhhh!<br />reality check:<br />who r the members of the UN security council who<br />voted as we did regarding Iraq?<br />puppets?<br />we wish....<br />the people of Iraq will string this guy up by his<br />spinnakers(sp) if they get the chance IMHO.
 

SCO

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

This isn't like Viet Nam Plywoody, but I do think of that too. I'd say to adopt a basic cynacism about the commander in chief based on Johnson or a liberal bias would be to handcuff your perception to one opinion(aka closed mindedness). The big eyeopener for all of us, especially GW IMHO, was the organized attack on our soil. I think it will take a mushroom cloud before many of you realize that this isnt about an imperialist American oil grab.
 

Fishbusters

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

You say why Saddam I say why not? He is a good target and it will even help the long range plans to take care of him first. The reason I say this is any war runs on supplies and on top of him being a good target he also has control of a #1 supply so why not take him out secure the oil needed to help fuel other campaigns and then take on the others? It makes perfect sense to me even if you don't take into account that we already have an abundance of military might ready to go over there (we were there already) and he makes a good next target. This is not over once Saddam goes down by a long shot and we will have to fight in many more places before it is over. I say since we have to start somewhere let's make it somewhere that will assist us in future conflicts.<br />BTW it has been stated that we would prefer to only carry on one fight at a time we are prepared to fight on two or even more fronts if it comes to it and it might the way things are looking.
 

62_Kiwi

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

ditto JB<br /><br />I must admit that I was surprised that the USA didn't go in and get Saddam immediately after the assassination attempt on President Bush senior. In my opinion that's good enough reason to go get him right now - regardless of all the other reasons.<br /><br />Furthermore...I know this has been said before, but here goes again. Look at the basic facts;<br /><br />1. Saddam has already attacked and invaded another country out of pure greed - ie not self defence.<br />2. Saddam has already used weapons of mass destruction on his own people.<br />3. Saddam hates America and Americans with a passion - and the rest of the western world too.<br />4. He has been (at the least) attempting to build nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.<br />5. He's easily as dangerous as bin Laden - and who wants to wait for him to prove it (again) on the western world?<br /><br />If you were President Bush, and your country had just been attacked as per 9/11 and you were responsible for the security of your people (and for that matter the rest of western world) and given the above facts.....what would you do?<br /><br />And...I don't think oil has anything to do with it.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents...
 

Hooty

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Re: I Am Sorry For What I Have Said

Interesting Article.<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty<br /><br />townhall.com<br /><br />Jonah Goldberg <br /><br />January 10, 2003<br /><br />Saddam's Idiots<br /><br />V.I. Lenin, the founding dictator of the Soviet Union, had a pithy phrase for the Western liberals who took the side of the Soviets in political debates. He called them "useful idiots." <br /><br />Today we have a new and improved version of useful idiots; we call them "human shields." These are the citizens of the United States and Europe who deliberately put themselves between the U.S. military and Saddam Hussein -or Slobodan Milosevic -in order to stop America from its "war of aggression." <br /><br />I recently debated a leader of the useful idiots, Ken Nichols O'Keefe, on CNN International's "Q&A" program. O'Keefe represents something called the Universal Kinship Society (www.uksociety.org) and will be leading its volunteer brigade of human shields to Iraq, where he hopes to make it as difficult as possible for the United States to drop bombs on Iraq. <br /><br />"If war starts, I will be in the most vulnerable areas. I want to be out where the bombs drop," O'Keefe told Reuters. "If there is a risk of large Western casualties, that is quite a political liability." <br /><br />A former U.S. Marine and veteran of the first Gulf War, O'Keefe renounced his U.S. citizenship in "shame and disgust" in 1999 because, as he wrote in the British newspaper The Observer, "Paying for roads and schools is one thing, paying for Weapons of Mass Destruction' to the point of insanity and nurturing global oppression is another thing all together." O'Keefe believes the United States was probably complicit in the 9/11 attacks and that the United States has been orchestrating its war for Iraq's oil for a long time. <br /><br />Now, what makes O'Keefe interesting is his foolish and embarrassingly naïve left-wing anti-Americanism. You can find people on every college campus in the world who agree with O'Keefe. What makes him noteworthy is his willingness to put his body where his bunk is. And, on that narrow basis alone, he deserves some praise. <br /><br />But not much. <br /><br />When I accused O'Keefe of grandstanding for propaganda purposes, he grew upset. In between calling me a coward, he continuously insisted that he couldn't be grandstanding for propaganda purposes because he was putting his life on the line. It was clear to me that O'Keefe believes that risking his life somehow makes him more right. <br /><br />This is a typical misfire of the intellect on the left: the belief that intensity of passion somehow reflects greater reasoning. According to this logic, I would be morally and intellectually right by putting my body between the police and the Mafia. The fact that O'Keefe is willing to follow through on his useful idiocy to the bitter end may make him consistent and, in an odd sense, brave, but it doesn't make him any less of an idiot. <br /><br />This illustrates the problem of the anti-war left more broadly. Every day, various regimes around the globe carry out horrible acts of aggression. But, with a very few exceptions, the international peace movement seems uniquely concerned about what it perceives to be unwarranted aggression by the United States, Israel and Europe -in that order. <br /><br />When Saddam Hussein mobilized to invade Kuwait, there were no human shields heading to thwart him. When Saddam gassed the Kurds, the ranks of international peacnickery didn't hop aboard planes for Northern Iraq. Every day in Africa, evil and barbarous state-sponsored thugs mutilate and murder innocent men, women and children with machetes, but the peace brigades do not march in their open-toed shoes to step in front of the blades. <br /><br />The useful idiots were strangers to downtown Kabul when the Taliban or the Soviets ruled Afghanistan, but they hurried there when the United States set about to liberate that country and punish the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. <br /><br />No, it's not, as O'Keefe and his useful idiots claim, "oppression" or the killing of innocent men, women and children that rankles the anti-war movement; it's that the United States gets under their skin. <br /><br />Moreover, they know that the United States (and Israel and the West generally) has a conscience, and they take advantage of that fact. Saddam Hussein, China and the Red Armies of the former Soviet Union would gladly roll their tanks over the screaming bodies of peace activists to achieve their goals. <br /><br />"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist," George Orwell wrote in 1942. "This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help out that of the other." <br /><br />O'Keefe and his friends are objectively in favor of Saddam Hussein and his murderous regime because they believe he is uniquely worth defending with their bodies. They may be brave, I guess, but they're still idiots, and I'm sure Saddam is grateful for them. <br /><br />Jonah Goldberg is editor of National Review Online, a TownHall.com member group.
 
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