Honda bf50 spark and carb issues

[ahicks]

Sea Rider,
There are times to talk, and there are times to listen........

Clearly you have NO idea of what Honda 4 stroke internals look like, the path the water follows through the motor to cool it, or how to "de sludge" all the different kinds of crap that can build up in them. For starters, removing a Honda power head is RARELY necessary.....unless there are holes in it.

Telling somebody that their power head need to be removed, WITH NO PRIOR TROUBLESHOOTING, is spreading bad advice. Advice that could cost somebody a LOT of money. Please consider that prior to spreading "advice" like you share in your last note. I don't care if you have pictures or not.....

 

[Sea Rider]

Hey aihcks who has given you the right to respond in an aggressive manner in behalf of the OP, mind your own business and I'll mind my own. Doesn't matter which internal watter passages, holes Honda motors have or looks like, all 2-4 stroke motors will collect filth adherences over time not a simple sludge much easier to flush compared to already hardened filth.

Will not lose my precious boating time arguing with another moron who doesn't want to look outside his eyewear frame. Can say without any doubt that you have never gutted an engine to clean it internally, as have never been through that experience don't have the slight idea what looks like but like to speak with an incredible nonsensel knowledge. Your post 41 doesn't contribute a darn thing to help fix the OP's motor.

Keep denying forever and ever that this scenario doesnt happen in real boating world no matter which HP brand motor is powering a boat. Keep troubleshooting theoretically foerever the whole Honda OP's motor till next summer season. ​

Hasta la Vista Baby....

 

[ahicks]

It's not just the OP I'm responding for, it's anyone that would put enough faith in your nonsense to spend time or money following some of the advice you spew as the truth. Case in point - suggesting that our OP here, pull his power head for cleaning.

Get back with us when you've followed your own advice and pulled the power head on a BF 50.....

 

[Sea Rider]

Don't make me laugh, so you guys thinks that no motor will internally clog over time or Hondas's are so darn special ? There's 3 type of boaters. The ones that does their own repairs, the ones that sends his motors to the mechanic and pays the bill the mechanic or the shop wants to charge and last the ones who gives a crap, doesn't want to spend a dime on his motor, parts it out, sells such parts at Ebay and buys a new motor. Which boater are U ?

Just to make fun out of you guys that have agreed to annoy me with your unsupported denials, check this out :



This motor wan't peeing right and was overheating, if that's an awful lower powerhead looking imagine what the internal water passages will look like ?

Happy Boating​

 

[ahicks]

Sea Rider, don't be an idiot - and don't assume you're addressing idiots with your notes. I don't think there's a person here that doesn't know outboard motors can/do build up crud internally. That's NOT the point! Think about that! Stop right here if you think this discussion is only about that potential.

The point is (the one the rest of us are talking about), you don't go around telling people that their entire power head needs to be removed for cleaning prior to some troubleshooting. Even then, if you knew ANYTHING about 4 stroke outboard internals, you would know that on many/most of them, you can access nearly 100% of the water jacket by simply removing the head(s).

Would you replace an entire boat wire harness, from the front of the boat to the rear, because you blew a fuse? You would do some trouble shooting right? That's all we're suggesting here.......

Don't assume all boat motors are identical, or even similar, internally. That'll get you into the same kind of trouble you got into for suggesting that everyone should tighten/re-torque their head bolts - another one of your recent pieces of wisdom.

 

[Sea Rider]

To the OP, what have you done so far, did it worked and now the motor is peeing right or remains with same issues as when starting the thread ?

Happy Boating​

 

[Newbie sailor]

To the OP, what have you done so far, did it worked and now the motor is peeing right or remains with same issues as when starting the thread ?

Happy Boating​

Currently still waiting on parts in the mail

 

[Sea Rider]

Currently still waiting on parts in the mail

Which parts may that be that plan replacing ? Forgot to ask, when removed the thermostat what was the internal thmo housing condition, was it clean, rusted, salty, awful looking ?

Happy Boating

 

[Newbie sailor]

The parts came in:

Description	Qty​
40204-ZV5-000	GROMMET, EXTENSION CASE	1​
91356-ZV5-000	O-RING, WATER PUMP	1​
91351-740-003	O-RING (41.7X3.5)	1​
19223-ZV5-000	LINER, PUMP	1​
19231-ZV5-000	COVER, IMPELLER	1​
19233-ZV5-000	GASKET B, IMPELLER	1​
19241-ZV5-000	HOUSING, WATER PUMP	1​
19242-ZV5-000	GASKET, WATER PUMP	1​
91251-ZV5-003	SEAL, WATER (17X30X7)	2​
19210-ZV5-003	IMPELLER, PUMP	1​
19221-ZV5-000	HOUSING, IMPELLER

And the thermostat housing was salty.

I won’t have time this week to tackle the project and see the out come

 

[Newbie sailor]

When I re did the carbs and took the intake manifold off, there was salt in the water jackets. I took air and tried to clear all the ports I could. Just wanna mention that

 

[Sea Rider]

It's extremely important that you have mentioned having salty issues at both sides so expect to have same on the entire water passages, there's been some knifing going on with one that thinks that Honda motors are state of the art manufactured and never gets salted nor retain salt in various forms such as layers, crusts, etc which it's an Olympic fallacy & denial.

Recapitulating as the thread got quite long, you are installing a new water pump due to the old one got shot when run it dry ? Besides this issue, does the motor overheats, the temp alarm chimes in prematurely ?

Tried flushing the motor with muffs, barrel with removed thermo from housing ? there's a nice Honda water flusher kit available...

​

Happy Boating

 

[Newbie sailor]

I installed a new impeller when I got the boat. It was kinda peeing (what’s the proper word for the motor to pee?) at that point. Did the whole carb rebuild and clean. During that point saw crust in the water jackets when intake was removed. Used air compressor to blow it out.

On my second reassembly of testing carbs, I hooked everything up using the water flush kit from Honda thats mentioned above. It was peeing great but carbs were still leaking fuel.

On my last reassembly of the carbs, I hooked everything up same way using Honda flush kit. carbs did not leak but motor was no longer peeing. Took the foot off, checked impeller and any crust that was lodged in. Impeller looked good, didn’t find any crust. Used a hose and shoved water into the inlet tube, I could get it to pee with hose pressure. Also water was coming up to the thermo housing. I took the thermo cover off to confirm that.

Reinstalled foot. at this point I used two hoses, one with a muff and one with the Honda flush kit. Both running water to the foot. Still no peeing. Took the foot off again and burned up the impeller.

currently where I’m at. I have all the new parts but been out of town for work and haven’t got back to it yet.

my next course of action is to remove the foot, use an outboard motor descaling solution. I will use a bucket and a sump pump to cycle in the solution from the bucket and have it pee back into the bucket. I have a screen mesh over my sump pump to not push back large crust or salt. Then use hose pressure to remove the solution from the motor.

 

[MattFL]

Ah I think you are having what I believe is a common Honda thing. Crumbs of stuff are clogging the pee tube, the the water is still circulating through the rest of the motor. Stick a weed whacker string up the pee tube, and/or shoot some water or air backwards through it and see if it starts peeing again. Mine has been doing this for the last year or two, but is still cooling fine as I've made 20+ minute 5k-rpm runs with the pee tube dribbling, but I know it was pumping since it was peeing strong just moments before. When it does this, turning the motor off and allowing the water to drain out will often unclog the tube and it starts peeing again. For my motor I took the lower unit off, thermostat cover off, removed the thermostat and blew as much water as I could forward and backward through the motor and got a bunch of the crumbs out. That reduced the frequency with which it's clogging up but it still happens. I too am thinking about trying the descaler to see if it cleans all the way out. Here are some pictures from when I did it. Note this is a 99' motor that has I'm guessing close to 2k hours of salt use. Not much scale visible in the thermostat area, but definitely some crumbs came out:

Thermostat area:


Bottom of bucket after flushing backwards through thermostat hole with water:


One of the bigger chunks that cameout:

 

[Sea Rider]

If you found huge oxidation, salt crusts inside the thermo housing, expect to find same on all water passages specially being a salt water motor. Have you ever teared the whole crankcase to expose all the water passages since out of the box ?

Happy Boating​

 

[ahicks]

Newbie -
First. I don't think you're supposed to run the motor with that Honda rinse adapter in place. It's used to rinse the motor only (completely worthless in my opinion). WAY further ahead running on muffs - assuming you have adequate water pressure.

Second, if you look at the "foot" directly above the prop, you'll see a second water pump intake port. When running on muffs, if there isn't enough water pressure, or if the engine is run over idle speed, this port is going to suck air, toasting your new impeller in short order. I know this because I've done it - a couple of times. There's no guessing here....

And I agree with Matt on the pisser. I use air pressure on it with the motor running. That air back feeding the water in there is creating quite a rinsing action. Enough to clear about anything out of the way, but it's often necessary to do that several times.

 

[MattFL]

I just ordered some Rydlyme, after much reading that seems to be the safest one for aluminum alloys (engine block). These descalers are acid based as acid readily dissolves calcium, salt and similar deposits, but it also dissolves aluminum so they have to add an inhibitor to reduce its reactivity with aluminum. From what I have read, the Rydlyme documentation is the only one to claim explicitly that it should be safe for aluminum engine blocks. I copied the entry from their docs below. I'll post back when it's done.

Link to doc:

https://www.apexengineeringproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Rydlyme_Specifications_19JUN18.pdf

Excerpt:
13. An exception to number 12 is that when using 100% concentrated (non-diluted) RYDLYME on magnesium, zinc, and/or aluminum, it could oxidize or pit. Furthermore, polished chrome and some alloys of stainless steel could become discolored. It is not recommended for use with concentrated solutions. The rule of thumb is that if the alloy is designed for use in a water system (aluminum engine block, aluminum mold, etc.), the alloy should be compatible with the RYDLYME solution. Otherwise, it is recommended that the RYDLYME be diluted 50% or more with water when cleaning.

 

[Sea Rider]

If you flush the motor on muffs with poor water pressure, the lower water intake located under the AV plate must be tapped dry well before the motor is turned ON. Can use Duck Tape which has an extremely sticky surface to hold well...

Happy Boating​

 

[Newbie sailor]

My new impeller is the wrong one so waiting on the other new one.
Other then that I’ll take the advice given on here.
Sea rider: I have not taken the crank case apart. I started to see if I could loosen some bolts and they seem pretty stuck at the moment. Tearing it down will be my last option as I have a feeling some bolt will be breaking

 

[Newbie sailor]

Also the next time I actually run it will be in a large trash can filled with water. I won’t be using the adapter or muffs and it ensures that the foot is sitting/and getting enough water

 

[Newbie sailor]

Also I never ran it long enough to get an over heating alarm