Historical Facts about Gun Control

[Toad2001]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Hi Boomyal,<br /><br />Respectfully, I wonder about your comment about Canada being repressive and socialist, and its populous being complacent and being subjects as opposed to citizens.<br /><br />While its true we do perhaps have a lot of government (relatively speaking), we also have 5 large parties to choose from, so its up to the voters to select how we want things run. Apparently we want public health care, and to pay teachers and cops 60K plus a year, and to have a (what I would consider to be) an impeccable infrastructure. <br /><br />I hardly feel like a subject, I feel like a citizen. A proud citizen of Canada. I feel at arms length from England. Nice heritage, but not knee deep in it either. A Royal visit every couple years doesn't hurt. <br /><br />The commonwealth is a good organization. It is long standing. I think it has been around since the 30's, and includes 50-60 or so Countries. Its multicultural, and among other things shares strategies on preventing terrorism. <br /><br />PS-I honestly don't try to **** people off, I just like decent discussion, but since I manage to, obviously this Canadian isn't complacent...

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Toad2001, from an Australian perspective - ditto.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Well Toad, I guess you are where you belong and I am where I belong. I, also, don't aim to **** people off, especially my beloved cousins. I just kinda wonder if the people who drank the coolaid in Guiana didn't have the same attitude as you have. Oooh, I know that was a low blow but I think you kinda get my meanin.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Its not a bad thing Toad to feel good about your choices, culture and home. In fact, it deserves respect.<br /><br />But for the sake of decent discussion, what does this have to do with gun control.<br />For every positive thing you can point out about Canada, I can point one out here. For every negative you can do, I'll match you again.<br />You'd be unhappy here and I'd be unhappy there.<br />Please pardon me if I choose to be different then you.<br /><br />I hold no ill will towards you because you choose to be Canadian, or liberal, or disagree with me.<br />In the purest of truth it's none of my business, as long as you keep it that way.<br />It's important to know that when it comes to gun ownership in this country, proper, lawful, responsible posession is none of your business. In addition, it none of my neighbors business and more importantly none of my governments business.<br />This is a matter of respect for culture, Constitution and spirit.<br /><br />Here is where your need for decent conversation simply leads to the pure truth that you take issue with one of my rights, culture and choice.<br />This important point is simple. <br />You and your likes and dislikes are irrelevant to my rights, culture and choices.<br />There is a fair share of my fellow citizens that can't seem to respect these things either. <br />Perhaps they are more Canadian or Australian then American. <br />Either way, they fail to revere American values and culture. <br />I promise, it's only a problem to me when they impose thier deminished values upon me.<br /><br />To legally own a gun here costs me time, effort and money. I have to prove that I'm responsible and have good judgement. I have to demonstrate proficientcy in both safe and lethal operation.<br />It's worth the effort to me primarily because it matters greatly to me that as a citizen of this country I'm afforded this responsibility. <br /><br />So far a lot of countrys have been named that don't trust its subjects to own firearms.<br />It might as well be the whole dang world as far as I'm concerned. <br />All the more reason to protect it here. It very much qualifies as a sacred responsibility.<br />What motivation,instead of being repressed, I'm actually been made to feel trusted, special, and a cut above the others.<br /><br />For a substantial portion of the population here gun ownership is a line in the sand. The time comes that the 2nd ammendment is corrupted, is the time we cease to be Americans. It's the time when we all become the same. <br />A sea full of Ramoras and not a Shark to be seen.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

I assume you meant Guyana?<br />What does my attitude have anything to do at all with the American Christian cult leader who lead 911 (weird eh?) people to their deaths in a suicide pact? I don't get it Boomyal...Perhaps you could start by stating factual info on what you know about Canada if you what to make these strange claims and how they somehow link. <br />I'd be happy to discuss with you the benefits of many of our "social" programs. Some work great, some not as well. All in all, its enabled Canada to maintain a very prosperous standing in the world ranking of standard of living.<br />Canada and the US are ranked comparably when it comes to livability standings as countries.<br />In fact Boomyal, I happen to live in the worlds most livable city, Vancouver BC (which won for the third consecutive year-We battle it out with Melbourne Australia year to year...) <br />Yeah, pour me a glass of cyanide laced Koolade...<br />

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Hi Skinnywater,<br /><br />In this recent exchange, I did take exception to the Canadian references Boomyal was making, and was seeking clarification.<br />I would imagine similar feedback if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Toad, correct me if i'm wrong, but I think we shared 1st place this year, couldn't seperate them. <br /><br />Aldo

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Sounds great to me...Our tourism site didn't note that. I guess there are two number ones...<br />Congrats.<br />The ratings are based on 39 different quality of life criteria. Obviously we are both spoiled to be able to live in such nice places in conjunction with the social and political climate that make it so appealing.<br />

 

[SCO]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

I'll step up to make the Koolaid point. Edit that, you did boomyal, but obviously spelling it out is necessary. Yes it was a dis, but a disclaimer for the dis was given . There is a point to be made and that is that ones perspective of good bad right wrong is based in large part, or almost entirely on the norms of the particular culture. All those people thought it was a good idea, or that they had to drink the koolaid. You can be fitting in to what you sincerely believe to be the way things outta be, and completely out to lunch in reality. Of course the same can be said and has been said about us 'mericans. We have our own reasons for believing in the way of life, values and culture that we were raised with and have good reasons not to follow the European/Canadian/ Austrailian model. I keep harping on those that want to change it all, if it aint broke dont fix it. Once Canada can show that it can have that great quality of life and be productive enough and possessive of the will to defend itself, then I'll vote to be like Canada. To all you with different views, don't be so certain you are correct until you have carefully considered the other perspective. I include myself in that chastisment. Sorry Canada, for the bravery that you do show, but this anti US stuff has me riled.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Guns - does any body know exactly how many people are killed by guns in the USA per year.<br />I am not trying to wind anybody up, just curious.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[SCO]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

a lot less than cars I bet

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Around 11000 from what I understand. So 30 a day.<br />3000 of which are children and teens.

 

[jee70611]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Ok then, if your numbers are correct, this really is a huge problem! Give me a break, 11,000 NATIONALLY per year out of over 290,000,000, that’s right, over 290 MILLION people. That doesn’t even take into account all the deaths out of that 11,000 that are self-defense, suicide or are at the hands of police officers. On the CDC’s website, The 2001 crude rate of firearm deaths is approximately 10.29 per 100,000 in that year. Now consider this. On their website also is the information about deaths caused by hypothermia. The 1999 crude rate for hypothermia is approximately 6.5 deaths per 100,000 in that year. Now we should spend billions of dollars making it law that everyone has blankets with them at all times to prevent hypthermia. After all, since it’s such a huge problem and all. This has been blown way out of proportion by all you people out there that are afraid of guns. The only way you can convince me that there is a real problem is for you to show me a gun that can get up off the table all by itself and shoot someone. NONE of my guns have ever done this. I guess all you gunophobes out there are just living in fairyland. WAKE UP from your dream. Anyhow, guns are OLD TECHNOLOGY!!!!! Anyone can MAKE THEM in their GARAGE. Cars are more dangerous than guns will ever be. It’s not that hard to find out the real numbers. JUST LOOK IT UP!!!! Why deceive yourself into fighting an issue that is pointless. Why don’t you people quit worrying about guns and do something productive like trying to find a cure for cancer and other life-threatening diseases. You’re wasting your time. There is NOT a problem. You people are just afraid of them. That’s ok, but don’t you dare even try to take mine from me. The second amendment is CLEAR in what is says. There should be an amendment set in place to protect the constitution from these feeble attempts to misconstrue its true meaning. This amendment should require every part of the constitution to be interpreted based on the context of the time period in which it was created. You people just can’t quit trying to twist its interpretation to benefit your agendas. Frankly, this is one AMERICAN CITIZEN who’s tired of it. Go ahead and try to take my guns. I would unleash round after round until you killed me. Then you could get my guns by prying them from my cold, dead hands. Let me ask you this. How does one eat an elephant? Give up? ONE BITE AT A TIME!!!!! <br /><br />James<br /><br />PS: The info I posted came from the cdc's web site at www.cdc.gov. You can find out all sorts of death statistics from there.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

op's.....who sprinkled Nitram on your wheeties jee70611 <br />I only asked the question. <br />You got to admit though, 11,000 is one h*ll of a lot of dead people, then you got to consider all the wounded that survive, which is probably over 11,000. <br />As I said, I only asked the question, as it seemed the logical thing to do.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[jee70611]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Phil, <br /><br />I wasn't directing that at you. Sorry if it seemed that way. I was just trying to make a point. I've been following this thread from the beginning and when people who don't really realize how minor the "problem" really is it just erks me. That's why I get so wound up over it. Especially since it is one of my rights. There is a reason that it is the SECOND amendment and not say the fifth or tenth or seventh. These gunophobes just can't seem to wake up to common sense. I just don't see how they can think that a CRIMINAL is going to give a D@#n about a gun control violation. Put yourselves in their mindset. Would you care? I didn't think so. That's why gun control is such a waste of time and money. I agree that 11,000 is a lot of people, but when we're talking about 11,000 out of such a huge number of people it brings the reality of it into perspective. The gunophobes always seem to leave that part out. Hmmmm.... I wonder why ? When dealing with things like this, you need to break it down to say a ratio of x number per 100,000, and then compare it to other things like I did. Raw numbers themselves are what help these people to scare and shock people to follow their agenda. The 11,000 really is a h*ll of a lot of people, but like I said, our population is so vast that it literally shouldn't be an issue. There would be more success preventing accidental deaths if they would begin providing hunter training in public schools as early as say kindergarten to fourth grade. Granted it wouldn't end it. Nothing can be done to end it. Stupid people will continue to do stupid things. Anyone who's interested, Look up Kennesaw, Georgia and Morton Grove, Illinois. Their statistics speak for themselves. That's the real deal. Criminals do not want to get themselves hurt. They want it to be easy. When you take guns away, you make it easier for them. Which means more crime. It's just common sense.<br /><br />James

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Most of that 11,000 will be trash on trash shootings.<br />Another large portion will be Police on trash shootings.<br /><br />I know that 5 of the 11,000 last year was in two incidents. Here in my own very small and rural county.<br />It was when 5 Mexican Nationals (illegal, undocumented aliens) who were up in the Mendicino National Forest growing pot. They opened fire on the eradication team. They wounded a couple officers but lost thier lives in the process.<br /><br />It's important to note that my family and I have enjoyed that same area of forest.<br /><br />Really, if you want very serious dent in gun crime, seriously enforce the borders, take the money out of drugs by legalizing them.<br /> And above all, enforce the multitude of laws already on the books.<br /><br />We can start with the one that says you're immediately deported if your here illegaly.<br />Is this a "silly" arguement? <br /><br />PW, Toad, Kiwi Phil, I'm legal, responsible and you guys should really rest your neck.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Gun control is a prohibition…an attempt to regulate a problem that doesn’t exist. Abraham Lincoln had stated that prohibitions have never worked and will never work because the idea of a prohibition goes against the very nature of what makes us human. He has never been proven wrong.<br /><br />If you look back at the ideals this country’s government and original policies were form upon, all of it takes into account the ‘spirit’ of what is human. In every case, people we today call “control freaks” were excluded from acquiring power for their dominion goes against human nature. No one has ever proved a way to affect any regulation that differs from that at the “founding” without interfering with the very essence of what makes us human…and thus, free.<br /><br />In the words of Benjamin Franklin, “Liberty never shines as brightly as the day she is conceived.” He was right…it has been growing dimmer ever since.

 

[pjc]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

toady is jealous 'cause he can't legally have a handgun in the Peoples Republic of Canada.<br /><br />Sorry toady.....feel for ya....me?..just bought a 44 holster gun at a local gun show. Am working up hand loads and will test same after todays Mothers Day duties. bang bang from my back yard shooting range........

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

Go Pat!

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Historical Facts about Gun Control

You guys are in denial. 63% of the American public want an outright ban on the production of commercial assault weapons.<br /><br />Why can't people make a common sense compromise?<br /><br />Theres a big difference between taking all your guns away and taking absolutely ridiculous weapons out of the publics hands.<br /><br />When somebody goes "postal" and kills a dozen co-workers, you say guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well, newsflash: if they didn't have a gun which continued to shoot as long as the trigger was held down, I guarantee the incident would not be of the same magnitude.<br /><br />BTW- who says you can't get a hand gun in Canada? Things are just much more regimented. Our hand guns have been registered here since 1934. No big deal.