Help this rookie Read Timing

[zcapogna]

Rookie needs help reading timing scale. This reading was taken at idle. Arrows are pretty close. I'm just a beginner with lots to learn and going slow.
Posted a picture of the pointer with timing lighr, the scale as well as manual.

Can someone tell me what the number is being displayed?

Engine runs okay with exception of poor idle. That's for another thread.

Full disclosure; when I was given this motor, all the bolts on the flywheel (except center) were loose. So I don't trust the position of the pointer.
I tried the initial setting of pointer at 464 using dial indicator but assume I'm doing something wrong since 464 was nowhere near the pointer when I followed procedure in book. I may not understand TDC i.e. rotated flywheel counterclockwise until piston was at its height closest to spark plug hole, then zeroed the dial indicator, them turned the flywheel counterclockwise until dial show 464. 464 mark on flywheel was a long was away ie quarter way round the wheel.

My check of timing was to get a second indicator if the flywheel might have been thrown back on without regard to scale.

Any info to help me ensure placement of flywheel and or just tell me the reading displayed in picture is greatly appreciated.

 

[racerone]

Remove flexplate and look for stain / rust mark to install in proper position.-----Or put #1 at TDC and use timing marks.-------Timing on these motors usually does not go out of adjustment.-----Start with a compression test.-----Post your numbers.

 

[zcapogna]

Posting a few picts of the scratched up stator. Went ahead and ordered replacement as part of motor overhaul.

Compression on all 6 cylinders 120.

Can you explain to an idiot (me) how to find TDC with a dial indicator? The book has me find TDC and then rotate flywheel counterclockwise to 464 and set the pointer to 464. Since my initial results were so far off, I checked the timing with a light and posted the result in previous picture to determine if im doing the pointer adjustment wrong. What number was indicated by the picture?

Thanks for helping. This is a restoration of a 40-year old engine that received little maintenance.

To date its been:
Cleaned up, lubed
Rebuilt fuel pump (2 to 3 psi at 1500 rpms)
Cleaned carbs and rebuilt including new floats and tang adjustment
New hoses
New ignition Coils
Switch boxes, stator, rectifier, and trigger on order
Cleaned up throttle and replaced key cylinder

Motor runs well above idle...doesn't idle well in water. Okay on muffs but will cut out.

 

[racerone]

Looks like it would be easy to match up the paint / rust / witness marks to put the flex plate in the right spot.-----Easy to me.

 

[Dukedog]

ya gotta bring #1 up ta TDC.. then ya can place flywheel on to tha hub with pointer at "0" on tha flywheel.... all tha paint and rust marks should line up.. until ya get tha hub and flywheel back to gather and clocked right forget anything ta do with timin'...........

get a real flywheel puller.. not good ta remove one like that...

 

[Chris1956]

Remove all the spark plugs. Stick a screwdriver into the top spark plug hold and turn the flywheel until the piston is nearest to top of cylinder. Timing marker should be pointing very close to TDC mark. If not remove the 5/16" bolts from the outer flywheel and turn the outer flywheel only until the TDC mark aligns with the timing pointer. Install outer flywheel bolts with some blue locktite on them.

Now measure to top of piston and add .464 inches to that measurement. Back the piston down until it measures the sum you calculated. Now set the timing pointer to .464" BTDC.

Now using a timing light, jumper the starter solenoid to crank the motor, ign on, and read the timing light as she flashes. Adjust the throttle until the idle pickup timing spec, and adjust the throttle arm idle pickup screw adjustment so the carbs are closed, but ready to open. Set the throttle to full and crank the engine and read the timing light. Using the max spark advance screw, set the max spark advance.

If your motor has a distributor, the idle pickup timing is set by rotating the brass colored plate that opens the carbs, left or right, to achieve spec. There are two set screws (5/16" wrench) holding the brass plate.

 

[zcapogna]

ya gotta bring #1 up ta TDC.. then ya can place flywheel on to tha hub with pointer at "0" on tha flywheel.... all tha paint and rust marks should line up.. until ya get tha hub and flywheel back to gather and clocked right forget anything ta do with timin'...........

get a real flywheel puller.. not good ta remove one like that...

Dukedog, can you explain difference from pulling the way I did? Manual shows removing center bolt and using a puller. I removed outter bolts.

The scratches on stator were causes by the bolts I removed having been left lose from before I had the motor.

 

[racerone]

A shop would pull the whole works off with the correct puller.---Uses the threads inside the hub.-----No chance of getting anything lined up wrong that way.-----Have you used the stain / rust marks to get the flexplate back in the original position ?

 

[zcapogna]

A shop would pull the whole works off with the correct puller.---Uses the threads inside the hub.-----No chance of getting anything lined up wrong that way.-----Have you used the stain / rust marks to get the flexplate back in the original position ?

Thanks racerone and not yet. Due to the age and scratches, I decided to order replacement stator, trigger plate, and rectifier along with both switch boxes. I'll rebuild once it all comes in.

I don't think I'll be able to use the rust marks since the maintenance done that resulted in flywheel bolts being loose was over 10 years ago.

So this rookie will be using the dial gage and TDC method. I'll probably post pictures of my first steps to obtain TDC once the parts come in just to confirm you all agree what I've done is right.

I had posted a picture of the pointer when using my timing light and asked if anyone could tell me what the reading was. If you look at this thread you'll see the picture. Any chance you can read it?

 

[zcapogna]

Thanks racerone and not yet. Due to the age and scratches, I decided to order replacement stator, trigger plate, and rectifier along with both switch boxes. I'll rebuild once it all comes in.

I don't think I'll be able to use the rust marks since the maintenance done that resulted in flywheel bolts being loose was over 10 years ago.

So this rookie will be using the dial gage and TDC method. I'll probably post pictures of my first steps to obtain TDC once the parts come in just to confirm you all agree what I've done is right.

I had posted a picture of the pointer when using my timing light and asked if anyone could tell me what the reading was. If you look at this thread you'll see the picture. Any chance you can read it?

Welp, just noticed gonna have to use the puller to replace the trigger plate. Anyone have a link to a decently priced tools of decent quality? Don't think I want to spend 180 for the merc puller. Can't imagine what the hold tool costs.

Thanks for everyone taking the time to respond.

 

[racerone]

Rust / stain marks on the hub and marks under the flex plate appear very distinct.----Should be able to use them.----Look on E-bay for the correct puller.

 

[racerone]

About $20 on E-bay

 

[zcapogna]

About $20 on E-bay

Found pullers but the holder c-91-52344 is coming up at $200. Is there an alternative?

 

[racerone]

----Piece of 1/4" flat bar and drill some holes.-----Use those holes in the hub.----Simple I think

 

[zcapogna]

----Piece of 1/4" flat bar and drill some holes.-----Use those holes in the hub.----Simple I think

Can you shoot a picture?

 

[racerone]

No----Beyond my pay scale !

 

[zcapogna]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0949M63L8/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Dukedog]

ebay... lots of 'em 20 bucks or less.. no brainer... here's jus one...

For Mercury Mariner Outboard 91-90455-1 Flywheel Puller Lift Ring Removal Tool | eBay

1x Fluwheel Puller Removal Tool with Crank Shaft Protector. Fits Mariner Outboard models Can fit Force/Yamaha outboard motors with 1 1/2"-16 TPI threads units too. Outboard models Convenient Tool during Changing Outboard Motors on Boats and lifting Engine off transom.

www.ebay.com

 

[zcapogna]

ebay... lots of 'em 20 bucks or less.. no brainer... here's jus one...

For Mercury Mariner Outboard 91-90455-1 Flywheel Puller Lift Ring Removal Tool | eBay

1x Fluwheel Puller Removal Tool with Crank Shaft Protector. Fits Mariner Outboard models Can fit Force/Yamaha outboard motors with 1 1/2"-16 TPI threads units too. Outboard models Convenient Tool during Changing Outboard Motors on Boats and lifting Engine off transom.

www.ebay.com

Roger Dukedog. The flywheel holding tool looks like a few hundred bucks. But I found a few alternates on Amazon. I posted a link above to one of them. Not sure if it'll work as good as the merc part.

 

[Dukedog]

no...... that one is jus for "holding" tha flywheel so ya can turn tha nut...lotsa ways ta "hold it"...not really needed... a good impact will usually do tha nut.... ya need one like on ebay..