help! Now won't start

[Dhadley]

Re: help! Now won't start

You have a crossflow. You say you replaced the powerpack with one from a looper. That will work BUT the wires in the connector plugs may be in a different position resulting in a different firing order.<br /><br />The pack has 3 sets of wires. One (orange) set goes to the coils. You say those are on correctly. The second (brown) set goes to the stator. Those are OK. Just follow the third and only set left to the rubber connector plug and see if the colors line up in each plug (blue to blue, white to white - whatever the colors are). If 2 are crossed the firing order may have changed from 1-2-3-4 to something else like 1-3-2-4.<br /><br />You can also check the firing order with a timing light. Mark top dead center on each cylinder, number it on the flywheel and spin it over while checking each cylinder to make sure it has spark at the right time.<br /><br />Look at the wires and let us know!

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Dhadley (more appropriatly admiral) an earned title. I checked the firing with a timing light as suggested. The #2 (top port) cylinder was trying to fire on the #4 indexed position on the flywheel. It looks like the power pack wires were backwards on the port side. I will switch and try to run it tomorrow as it is too late here to do this. Neighbor's won't appreciate the sound that I hope it will make. <br /><br />Have I done any damage by trying to start it miswired? The #1 and #2 were firing just a little off or beyond the pointer. This may be how it was before. Should I pitch this powerpack and get a different one?<br /><br />Presuming it will now start and run once I switch wires on #2 and #4 what do you think about the rpm drop after short use. It really seemed like it was dropping a cylinder. <br /><br />Thanks again for the advice. I will let you know the result tomorrow.

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

I just swapped out the wires from #2 to #4 and #4 to #2. Timing light showed #2 on pointer, but a #2/#4 flash alternatively. So it looks like 1,3 and 2 are in time, but 4 is flashing at 2 and 4. This power pack is a CDI unit. The large multi colored plug has match wires to engine wiring harness. Maybe I should just put back my old power pack and give this new one the float test?

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

bringing it back to the top

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Looks like the cylinders are firing in correct order or at least 2 fires on flywheel 2 and 4 fires on flywheel 4. Since it is getting gas and spark and now the powerpack has been correctly wired it should fire. Thanks for all of the help. Hard to believe it was one wire that was wrong.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: help! Now won't start

Keep us informed. I hope it works!

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Well, the timing light shows the firing on the proper cylinder as indexed on flywheel; however, it still will not start. Doesn't even get a "pop." Rechecked the spark jump and it is strong and at 7/16inch. I'm also certain it is getting gas as I can smell it and I checked the carb drain plug. I would guess it is flooding as it is trying to start. <br /><br />The failed starting effort is very similar to those attempts we have all made without the kill swith tether. Mine is on, but I wonder it the kill switch is causing a problem. What do you guys think and is there a way to test it or bypass it?<br /><br />Thanks

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: help! Now won't start

If you have spark, it's not the kill switch! Still sounds like a timing problem. I know this is not recommended, but shoot a little starting fluid in the Carbs and try to start it. If it tries to go, head back to the Carbs.

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

I'll try that, but I think I will put the old power pack on after that. Timing???

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Scratch My Timing remark!!! Brain Freeze!

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Starting fluid did not help. Power pack swap did nothing either. I think it is out of time. How do I fix or check?

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: help! Now won't start

I can only refer you back to what Dhadley said to do, in order to set the timing. Double check it, it never hurts. I know this is a pain in the a**, but you have Spark, Fuel, Compression and the only thing left is timing. I'm suprised that it did'nt even spit or pop with the starting fluid, even if it is out of time!

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Oh Yeah, are you still getting Spark on all cylinders with the Old Power Pack installed??

 

[Bear]

Re: help! Now won't start

Joe Reeves said:<br />"..... unless someone has had the flywheel off and did not torque the flywheel nut properly. This would cause the flywheel key to shear (even so slightly) which would throw the engine out of time."<br /><br />brokenboat said:<br />"The fly wheel was not removed by me."<br /><br />

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Well, I guess the question is, was it removed or not? Good point, could be the flywheel is off a bit. Might want to pull it, put in a new key and torque it properly. I'm sure that's where you're going with it, Bear! Good guess and how the He** did you open that Pic on that other Post??????

 

[Bear]

Re: help! Now won't start

I'm glad you asked about the picture Rick <br />I saw his first post in the I/O or Inboard Engine section. That link works just fine. The second post here he forgot a z in airwavez.com.au/temp.htm <br />Nothing magic if you saw it before...

 

[Dhadley]

Re: help! Now won't start

Lets look at the basics. For a motor to start you need;<br />Clean fuel / air mix - you say its getting fuel and the carbs are clean. No water in the fuel.<br />Compression - you said its even and good.<br />Timed spark - You indexed the flywheel and its firing 1-2-3-4.<br /><br />A couple of things come to mind. The motor must turn 350 rpm with the starter to generate spark. When you check spark are the plugs in or out?<br /><br />The motor doesnt even pop with starter fluid. Unless the exhaust is completely plugged, if you have spark (even if its 180 degrees out) it should at least pop.<br /><br />What spark plugs? Are you checking spark with the plugs in or out?

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

Here is the latest and thanks for the good suggestions.<br /><br />Teaspoon of gas was put in each cylinder. It ran fine while that was being used up. Spark is good with the old pack. Put a primer bulb in fuel line, but before the VRO/fuel pump. Got it to fire but not run. Just a 1 or 2 second run and stall. This boat/motor (again it is a 1994 OMC 115Jeer) has no primer bulb for the fuel line. I took off the fuel line from fuel pick up. There is not an anti-siphon valve. The flywheel, nor any other mechancal linkage, was changed or adjusted. I am wondering if there is a coincidental fuel pump failure? How hard is that unit to rebuild? It is in a separate housing with the VRO. The fact that it did run with fuel in cylinders suggests to me that timing is OK. The timing light on start attempts was nearly right on #1 TDC.

 

[brokenboat]

Re: help! Now won't start

update.<br /><br />Rechecked compression and it is 120 in all 4 cyl.<br />Checked primer to see if it was dumping fuel in cylinder by removing hose and cranking engine. It was not. Plugs are a little wet. The flywheel pointer is a little before TDC on #1. I have noticed fuel around the fuel lines at clamping points. Fuel line is new on the carbs. but original from pump to 1st tee fitting. I'm sure puzzled

 

[Dhadley]

Re: help! Now won't start

There shouldnt be any fuel from the primer hose if you just cranked the motor over. <br /><br />To inject fuel - pressure the lines with the bulb. Turn the key to "On" only (do not engage starter). Hit the primer or "choke" button and fuel should then come out of the small hose.<br /><br />Good luck!