help! Now won't start

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Initial problem and untested so far was a loss of RPM at W.O.T. Motor is a 115 OMC on a jet boat.<br />Coils tested fine for OHMs. Replaced power pack. Rebuilt carbs with new floats and needle valves. Plugs are new. After putting together went for a water test and couldn't get the boat to idle below 1800. Sputtered and died. Removed carbs to check float drop and level and it is within spec. cleaned all again and assembled. Now it will not start. What could have happened as it idled fine before I touched it. Murphy's law?
 

durk187

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
150
Re: help! Now won't start

3 basic things for a motor to run.<br /><br />1. Spark<br />2. Air<br />3. Fuel<br /><br />A little more info on which one of these things you are missing will be of great help to solving your problem. Have you checked for spark? Also check for fuel, finger plugging spark plug hole while cranking, finger moist you have fuel. Let us know :) <br /><br />DC
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: help! Now won't start

Sychronize the Carbs! Make sure All Carb. flaps open at the same time.
 

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Re: help! Now won't start

Motor has VRO. Gasoline is getting to carb. The plugs were wet and I cleaned them. Cranked engine and saw spark jump. Here is something I am wondering about. The power pack replacement says CD4 Looper on it. I do not know if my engine is the looper or cross flow. Does this make a difference? My motor is 1994 OMC 115. Carb flaps seem to open in sync. as I watch the shaft pin and the angle stays parallel.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: help! Now won't start

brokenboat,Check to see that plug leads and coil leads are hooked up to the proper cylinder.If so ,see if your plug wires will jump 7/16' gap to engine block.
 

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Re: help! Now won't start

Thanks. I will check the spark jump distance. Forgot to mention that the anti siphon valve was punched out. It has inboard gas tank. This was done on recommendation of a mechanic.
 

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Re: help! Now won't start

Spark plug wires throw a good spark. I am wondering about that power pack more now. There just is not a whole lot to the carbs. Could the wrong power pack throw the engine out of time?
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: help! Now won't start

Go back through the Carbs. and make sure everything is correct. Power Pack should be OK. If it Idled before you did the Carbs., that's where I would look, again! Might try disconnecting gas line at the Motor and try to start it. Sounds like it is flooding!
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: help! Now won't start

Also, does your Motor have a Primer system or choke system? If it's a primer system, make sure Manual Prime lever(Red Lever on Carb.) is in proper position. (Bow to Stern position). Just another thought!
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: help! Now won't start

Does timing plate move freely? And does it rest against it's stop when not running? End of questions!!
 

ICEMAN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
292
Re: help! Now won't start

Did you do a compression test on this motor? Did you run it with the flushing adapter? If so, did you turn the water on BEFORE or AFTER starting the motor? What is the model number of the motor and what number power pack did you get for it?
 

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Re: help! Now won't start

Compression was balanced at 120 in all four cylinders. Hose was on, but I don't turn it on until after the water is running. Engine has a solenoid that squirts gas into manifold with push of the key. Carbs were rechecked and there is nothing missing.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: help! Now won't start

Check this out...look at the wires from the pack going to the timer base. Make sure the color coding is matching in the two plugs (blue to blue etc). If two wires are not matching it can throw off the firing order.<br /><br />DC is right about the 3 things needed for the motor to run. It needs spark but it needs to be at the right time. <br /><br />Let us know!
 

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Re: help! Now won't start

the two wires are brown and they match as best I can tell. One has a white stripe. The old power pack had the orange/purple wire to #2 cyl. and the orange/pink to #4. The new power pack was different in this area as it had a orange only and orange/pink. I attached them to 2 and 4 respectivly since the diff was the absence in a purple stripe. What if I were to switch that around now? Would it do any damage? Rechecked spark and have that. Fuel is getting to the carb and the plug electrodes were wet with the fuel. It must be timing, but I don't see how that could be since nothing was done to it mechanically. It was timed perfect before and on all 4 cylinders. I really appreciate the guidance thus far.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: help! Now won't start

The brown wires go to the stator. The orange wires go to the coils. What about the wires going to the timer base?<br /><br />Good luck!
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: help! Now won't start

Brokenboat.... Iceman asked what the model number of the engine was. I didn't see a reply to that. The model number would pinpoint exactly what you have and would help everyone that's reading about your problem.<br /><br />If your engine ever ran properly with its present powerpack, and you still have ignition (spark) on all cylinders (with the s/plugs removed) that will jump a 7/16" gap, then it's quite unlikely that any problem exists with the powerpack.<br /><br />You state that the compression on all cylinders are in the area of 120 psi. If you have spark and compression, this would lead me into the fuel section..... unless someone has had the flywheel off and did not torque the flywheel nut properly. This would cause the flywheel key to shear (even so slightly) which would throw the engine out of time.<br /><br />Now, you say the original problem, in essence, was that the engine would not hit full throttle/rpms. If the compression and spark were normal, usually this problem is caused by fouled, clogged, gummed up carburetors. If all else was perfect and you rebuilt the carbs properly, making sure that the high speed jets were cleaned thoroughly and that all of the jets were re-installed where they belong, the high rpm would be caused by improperly synchronized carbs or an air leak between the carb body and the intake manifold..... or the flywheel key problem as mentioned above.<br /><br />Pertaining to the floats... I suggest you forget about the gauges and measurements. Simply hold the carburetor body upside down and look at the float from the side. Adjust the float so that it is ever so slightly higher on the end opposite the hinge pin, then make sure that when viewing the end view that it is level and not tilted.<br /><br />Exactly what is this engine doing now? Does it attempt to fire, backfire out the exhaust, fire or spit fuel out the carburetor throats?<br /><br />Also.... the obvious that may be overlooked, does the fuel by any chance have any water in it, or has the oil bulb been pumped by accident that would load the carbs with oil?<br /><br />Or if you've found the problem, let everyone here know what you found.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: help! Now won't start

brokenboat,In addition to what Joe Reeves has instructed ,you mentioned in first post of changing powerpack.If you suspect the new one is the wrong pack why not put the old one back in.Did you change it after it was condemned or just as part of problem finding?
 

brokenboat

Seaman
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
69
Re: help! Now won't start

Thanks and I will answer those questions as best I can. The model number is 115JEEO. It is a 1994 OMC 115 Turbo Jet. <br /><br />The fly wheel was not removed by me. It did idle fine, but now it will not start. The primer seems to work as I can hear the solenoid click. I do not know what the timer base is, but I do not recall disconnecting any wires that could not go back exactly as removed (the rubber plugs type connectors). <br /><br />The carbs open and close as they should as I watch the butterfly open on both at same time. I did not adjust the linkage in any way. Simply removed carbs, cleaned jets, replaced gaskets and O rings, replaced float (eyeballed) as suggested earlier, and reinstalled. Jets were r/r one at a time to ensure correct replacement. <br /><br />I still have old power pack and will try that just to see. I just removed it as a way to problem solve to that point. OHM tests that I could do proved fine, but I did not check coils while running. Original problem was that after 20 or so minutes of running which included the full rpm range the boat would drop off rpm from 5000 to 4200 and speed dropped two. Seemed like an electrical problem and I found the plug wire was overheated to #1. Changed that wire but problem still there.<br /><br />What is the motor doing now? It is not starting.<br /><br />Thanks again I hope I have answered the questions, but if more please ask
 
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