Help an Aussie to understand......

[achris]

Hi all,<br /><br />I would like to understand the love affair that the people of the USA (what appears as a majority) have with their guns. <br /><br />I live in a country that does not have a 'gun culture' and feel a lot safer for it. Why do people carry guns if not to kill? I have heard the argument that more people are killed by motor vehicles than guns, and I'm sorry, it's doesn't hold water. Motor cars are designed as transport, the fact that some people are stupid enough to kill themselves (and unfortunately others) is just the Darwin pinciple at work. Guns were design and built with one purpose, and only one purpose; to kill! <br /><br />If nobody was allowed to carry a gun, then wouldn't society be a lot safer? We have had too many examples of people who have gone crazy and kill so many other innocent poeple. Without the access to a gun the damage these people could do would be some much less. <br /><br />For those who like 'hunting', put the gun away and go and do some real hunting. Use something that evens the playing field a bit. Give the prey a chance.<br /><br />Chris..................<br /><br />P.S. I am opposed to guns, if you were wondering.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Wouldn't want to nauseate ya Chris! As you might know, this subject has been made a real political football. And this forum is tired of political discussion. The biggest objectors, of course, having the least to contribute, one side or the other. You've already made your position clear, so no point in belaboring another political subject. No reasons, already given, would change your mind.

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Fair comment Boomyal.<br /><br />The only reason I asked was because of SW comment about not being able to part with his AK47. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that an assault rifle?<br /><br />Chris...........

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Assult rifle... Yep...

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

What makes SW's rifle an "assault rifle" and what difference does it make?<br /><br />You ask "If nobody was allowed to carry a gun, then wouldn't society be a lot safer?"<br /><br />Answer this one for me: if no one was allowed to murder anyone else, wouldn't society be a lot safer?<br /><br />See the point? Simply passing a law or disallowing this or that has an effect only on those who are not a threat to society in the first place.<br /><br />Possession of a weapon does not make the deadly use of that weapon inevitable. It serves as a deterrent against those who are a threat to society. It makes the occurence of violence LESS likely, not more likely.<br /><br />My guns are for the protection of my family, my property, and my freedom. They are a threat only to those who would do me, or mine, harm.<br /><br /><br />dd-

 

[Bob in Calif.]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Put it this way achris, one of the main reasons the Japanese didn't attempt to invade mainland America, is because of the "Second Amentment" in our constitution.<br /><br />That's why the "Sandy Boy's are really "Girly Men" in my book. They haven't got the guts to do a face to face altercation here, again due to the Second Amendment, so they slither around like stinking rats.<br /><br />That's my opinion on the Sandy Boys. <br /><br />No Season, No License, No Limit= No 70 Virgins <br /><br />...Bob in Calif...

 

[Bob in Calif.]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

One other thing achris........<br /><br />I have a bumper sticker on one of my trucks that say's....."The three that set AMERICA free...GOD, GUTS and GUNS"<br /><br />Think about it, it's still working here.<br /><br />...Bob in Calif...

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by achris:<br /> Fair comment Boomyal.<br /><br />The only reason I asked was because of SW comment about not being able to part with his AK47. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that an assault rifle?<br /><br />Chris...........

I dunno Chris, yer draggin me where no man is supposed to go, anymore. But I cannot resist. <br /><br />Ya see, the Liberals, in this country, are notorious for employing symbolism over substance and this is a prime example of it. A civilian AK-47 is absolutely no different than many other 'legal' semi-automatic rifles. It just looks mean. So poof! If it is 'mean, it sucks'. (favorite Liberal term for people and things that don't agree with their sense of fairness and kindness)<br /><br />Clinton, before he lost control of the congress, signed a bill that prohibited the import of those mean rifles. If you already had one, you could keep it. For some strange reason, the bill had a time limit on it and it is now up for a revote as to whether to keep the law or drop it.<br /><br />The whole joke of the matter was that they developed a point system to determine the legality of the mean looking assault rifle. So many points for looking like one, so many points for being semi-auto, so many points for having a flash suppressor, so many points for having a bayonet lug, etc etc and here we are again, ad NAUSEAM.<br /><br />So if a rifle stayed below a certain number of points you could still import one, even if it was substantially, zip, nada,(a little Mexican lingo here) zero different from the full meal deal. (still semi-auto of course)<br /><br />The additional joke is that the number of crimes committed with assault rifles was so infinitesimal that it could hardly be measured.<br /><br />Boy, that felt gooood!

 

[roscoe]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

You guys seem to have made most of my points for me.<br />But I will ad that gun ownership is protected under our constitution.<br /><br />I've had guns for 35 years, since the age of 7.<br />So far I have shot one stray wild cat, a few dozen rats, 3 or 4 birds, 2 rabbits, and thousands of paper and wood targets.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

AChris - you've set the cat among the pigeons now mate!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by 62_Kiwi:<br /> AChris - you've set the cat among the pigeons now mate!

Yeah, you trouble makin interloper you! You made me do it

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Not criticism, Dunaruna, just surprise and that out of concern for my fair cousins. Self defense and sport is a small part of the justification of owning firearms. Although I lock my door at night I do not live in fear for personal safety. There could be some places that I might go, where that is not the case, however.<br /><br />We both eminated from the same root, albiet under different circumstances. Our Fore Fathers, very wisely, understood what can happen to a population who was without arms. It had little to do with personal safety. Our right to bear arms was written into the Constitution as a safeguard against both foreign and domestic governments that would try to subjugate our citizenry.<br /><br />It is an understanding that is no less valid today. As a previous poster noted, the Japanese would not have attempted to invade the U.S. because of the armed citizenry. The Germans, in part, did not invade Switzerland due to the high calculated cost of an armed citizenry. When Hitler threatened to invade England, they were more that happy to accept donated arms from the personal arsenals of American Citizens. A small group of armed Jews kept the Nazis at bay, in Poland, for six weeks before they ran out of ammunition and were overwhelmed. And they died without the humiliation, suffering and pain that would have been suffered in the concentration camps.<br /><br />History is rife with examples of populations being disarmed before they were subjugated, or simply overrun because they were not armed.<br /><br />I do not live in fear of this happening to me. Gun ownership, by responsible citizens, is simply a right given us for good reasons. And I for one intend on doing my utmost to retain that right. If my Government does not trust me, then I certainly do not trust my Government.<br /><br />For as similar as we are, I have learned that there are signifigant differences as well. I do not mean this, either, as a criticism. Just an observation. It appears that Australians are just more comfortable with a lot of forms of regulation that Americans, todate, would not stand for. To allow for personal choice, in the matter, no American is forced to own firearms either.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

I think its fair to say that we (Aussies) just don't get it. We hunt with rifles, we play with rifles but we just don't understand why we would need assault rifles. Thats the way it is, different cultures and different ideals. <br /><br />I don't know about Chris, but having a gun in my house to defend my family has never crossed my mind. Their is no threat to defend against.<br /><br />A lot of what I read here concerning firearms in Australia comes across as a criticism (boomyal ) but its the way it is, period. Its one of the reasons Australia is a fantastic place to live and raise children. <br /><br />o/k. Release the hounds.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

if guns are banned, can we use SWORDS?

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Yes.

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Duna, I am wondering what you mean when you use the term "assault rifle."<br /><br />The M16 or later M4 used by the US military is a true assault rifle. One of its distinguishing characteristics is that it is capable of full-auto fire, meaning that you can hold the trigger down and it will shoot like a machine gun.<br /><br />The term "assault rifle" has lately been improperly used to characterize rifles like the AR15, which is a clone of the M16, but is not capable of full auto fire. The trigger must be pulled once for each round fired. This is a semi-automatic weapon. It is NOT an assault rifle, regardless of what the anti-gun people say.<br /><br />There are many hunting rifles that are semi-automatic, such as those offered by Browning and Remington. They function in exactly the same way as an AR15. The AR15 is only different in appearance.<br /><br />American riflemen like a wide variety of rifles and calibers, and use them for many different purposes including competition, self-defense, hunting, or just shooting for fun. There is no justification whatsoever to restrict firearms ownership for cosmetic reasons, especially in light of what our Constitution says.<br /><br />By the way, it is not illegal to own a true machine gun in the US. It requires a federal license. Full-auto weapons are extremely expensive and have huge appetites for ammo, making ownership and use pretty impractical. <br /><br />I have fired full-auto weapons, and that is truly an experience, but I don't think I would ever want one. If my law-abiding neighbor wants one though, I have no problem with that.<br /><br /><br />-dd-

 

[Bassy]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Simply said, the US Constitution Bill of Rights gives me the right to bear arms. So, I will. Plus it helps with those pesky squirrels.<br />Bassy

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

as a safeguard against both foreign and domestic governments

That's what an Army is for. The most dangerous thing for a defender is a firearm in the hands of an untrained civilian who thinks he's helping.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

It's important to know the Constitution doesn't give me any freedoms at all. More accurately, it limits my governments power. <br />It's all about being governed by law, instead of being governed by men.<br />These basic facts are forgotten by many American citizens and alien to others.<br /><br />The thing that seems to set Americans apart is individualism. This is the concept that aligns itself with the founders and the Constitution.<br />The Second Amendment isn't a right given to US by man. It's a directive telling my government not to impose a law against my God given freedoms.<br /><br />The right to keep and bear arms is more then supreme rights, it's completely lawful and is responsible.<br />This right allows me the sole responsibility to defend my own life and family. Without relying on others.<br />This right also gives me, the individual, a right to pursue my own happiness in what I do as a hobby or what I care to collect.<br />This right also allows me to acknowledge, practice and perpetuate a custom and practice that was used by my forefathers.<br />This right is also a check and balance to ensure that power and corruption not make me a subject rather then the citizen that I am.<br /><br />Where you imply that we have a "love affair" with guns is evidence of you failing to understand the concept of our love affair with freedom.<br />I understand your feelings of "feeling safer" without them. Feelings have more to do with man then they do with law.<br />I understand you as a "subject" of your government needing to trust them with your safety.<br />This is synominous with them not able to trust it's subjects.<br /><br />With these so basic of differences, individual freedoms, the rule of law over the rule of man. Your understanding of these simple facts make clear being American is one of individual responsibility, trust between people and government and respect for custom and happiness.<br /><br />If this isn't your conclusion then it's possible the information you receive is jaded or convoluted.<br />However, in addition it's noteworthy to point out that a lot of problems concerning guns and violence here is a agenda by several liberal groups to abolish individual freedoms, responsibility and customs.<br />This is evidenced by these same groups that would prefer to take rights away rather then enforce the numerous laws concerning violence. Make victims out of the perpetrators rather then enforce responsibility. <br /><br />The gun control issue is what I'd call an "indicator right." The death of the Second Amendment would indicate the death of individualism. <br />Individualism is contrary to most of the worlds governments. Contrary to most socialistic ideologies. And contrary to individual responsibility. <br />Yet it is vital to an American way of life. <br /><br />With this all said, I'd like to ask you a question.<br />What is this desire or "love affair" with so many Canadians and Australians to make US like you?<br /><br />As you ponder this question. I'll say what I've said before. It's very possible a good American would probably make a terrible Canadian or Australian.<br />And in more natural terms for you, my scuba diving Australian friend. I think it's possible for a Shark to survive without a Ramora, but the Ramora would surely die without the Shark.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

That's what an Army is for.

Basic concept again Chris.<br />The Army is there to do the governments business. Not nessesarily the peoples business.<br /><br />Can I suggest you do a search on the Federalist papers? Read them and prepare to think like a citizen. From there, you'll get the understanding you're searching for.<br />Ask if you need further assistance.