Help! 1976 Mark Twain restore it or junk it?!?

[Earl Cordova]

I am way too lazy to take on a project like that.

 

[racerone]

Contractor working on installing gas pipeline along my road.----He said he came over because he was curious as to what I was doing with the HOCKEY STICKS .----The composite , hollow , graphite , carbon fiber ones.

 

[ArcturianKing]

Contractor working on installing gas pipeline along my road.----He said he came over because he was curious as to what I was doing with the HOCKEY STICKS .----The composite , hollow , graphite , carbon fiber ones.

So if I do go the route of a full restore, or just the stringers to the transom, floor and upholstery, etc.. could I get away with not pulling the top off and still being able to replace the floor under the front and back where the fiberglass frames sit?! I don’t want to do to much to the outside..

 

[racerone]

On a boat such as that ( bowrider / split windshield ) you have to really pay attention to floor and supports.------There is no deck / dash assembly as part of the structure

 

[todhunter]

So if I do go the route of a full restore, or just the stringers to the transom, floor and upholstery, etc.. could I get away with not pulling the top off and still being able to replace the floor under the front and back where the fiberglass frames sit?! I don’t want to do to much to the outside..

Sure, it's likely possible to do it without pulling the cap. Look up the Friscoboater videos on YouTube of his Sea Ray restoration - he didn't pull the cap. Now, it may end up being more work for you by not pulling the cap if you have to cut out some of the fiberglass to get access to all the stringers/deck/transom then re-glass it back in at the end. I was initially super against pulling the cap on my project, but ended up doing it. It wasn't too bad and I'm glad I did now...so much better access to everything.

 

[ArcturianKing]

Sure, it's likely possible to do it without pulling the cap. Look up the Friscoboater videos on YouTube of his Sea Ray restoration - he didn't pull the cap. Now, it may end up being more work for you by not pulling the cap if you have to cut out some of the fiberglass to get access to all the stringers/deck/transom then re-glass it back in at the end. I was initially super against pulling the cap on my project, but ended up doing it. It wasn't too bad and I'm glad I did now...so much better access to everything.

Hmmm I have a lot to think on, and I’m doing this in town in my driveway so idk if I have the space to pull the top.. how much materials such as resin and fiberglass roll would I need to tackle this project?!

 

[todhunter]

Hmmm I have a lot to think on, and I’m doing this in town in my driveway so idk if I have the space to pull the top.. how much materials such as resin and fiberglass roll would I need to tackle this project?!

It all depends on how thorough you are, how much material you waste as you learn/progress, and lots of other factors. My boat is 19 ft and I'm guessing I'm in it about 30 gallons of resin, 30 yards of 1708, and 15 yards of CSM...just for transom/stringers/deck. I'm doing mine in a one-car garage. I am storing the cap on a 2x4 stand I built in the back yard.

 

[racerone]

My 17' boat is using up 4 gallons of West System epoxy + about $200 worth of epoxy ( special toughened ) to glue in the 1/2" foam floor.-----The 1/2" foam floor ( corelite board ) will be carbon fiber / epoxy on both sides.----Even building a carbon fiber pole for pulling grandkids on skis and water toys.

 

[Lectro88]

So if I do go the route of a full restore, or just the stringers to the transom, floor and upholstery, etc.. could I get away with not pulling the top off and still being able to replace the floor under the front and back where the fiberglass frames sit?! I don’t want to do to much to the outside..

Just a word from what I encountered. may be different, may be same or similar.
Now this was a different brand of boat it was a pisces, not a twain.
It was a walk through though. very similar. a slew were clones.
Where you walk through,(on mine) goes down to the floor.. its supported by the floor if they are the same.
When you remove the floor the walk through is going to flop down.
It will constantly be in your way, a royal pain. for tear out and build back around.
The weight of the windshield compounds all this.
But its a pain to pull cap too, (I did pull cap)
Dealing with the old and hardened rub rail is probably worst thing.
And I have yet to locate new fresh rub rail or pieces to replace damaged rail trim. and they cant ship it as long as factory had on hand(another story)
no foam in gunnels or side of hull, so for me after rub rail it was easy to pull cap with excavator or 2-3 friends.
The pisces had only 1 stringer down the middle, and it butted into about a 12"x12" bilge pit.
The rest of the structure or support was just wet foam under plywood.
Maybe something here was a help.

 

[Lectro88]

Hmmm I have a lot to think on, and I’m doing this in town in my driveway so idk if I have the space to pull the top.. how much materials such as resin and fiberglass roll would I need to tackle this project?!

Here is a short list.
some of this is excessive. but I'm old and have been collecting a long time.
I have a minimum of 15 gallons of epoxy and 2 different polyester resins 1 gallon each. just over a $1K. for those bought most before covid and hear everything has jumped or its hard to get now.
I use a gallon I order 3 more. I buy fiberglass just for sport.
I promise... Nothing is going to get cheaper.
I have 3 Rolls glass and several 6-8 folded bundles 30 yrd lengths of assorted chopped strand matt, 24 oz some odd 10oz I got for cheap some 6 oz, 8 pounds of milled fiber. 1/2" chopped filler. 1/4" chopped filler. 6 gallons cabasil
Another easy $1500.- 2K
I really don't try to hammer or keep track of the numbers.
(this is therapy for me)I'm sick.
Theres a supplier 15 miles from me so I have that part golden.
Then you have or I use scales for mixing, putty knives, rollers, sanders, grinders, saws, vibratory cutter, sand paper, sand and or grind discs, don't forget resperrator(spelling) or P.P.E. solvents, containers, for mixing and cleaning. vacuum and air compressors optional but handy. I have 3 vacuums because I don't use anywhere else after glass. 1 for table saw and mitre saw. 1 for other clean up. rags.
I have 5 different air compressors. 2 gas. 3 Elec. from 5 gallon - 120 gallon tanks. just bought a new 3 cyl. I don't like running low on air. and I also like portable air, so I mostly run 2 wheelbarrow twin tankers together at 26 cfm.
If you're working outside tarps, and they don't last long.
Then you get to pick what you are building back with, wood or composite.
several hundred dollars for new pour foam.
Carpet. or textured non-slip coating for floor.
This list didn't get started good, but its a place to start, you don't need 2-3 of each, But I would be mindful running a wet vac in the house or around kids after its been used for glass. that goes for brooms too.
Since you are asking advise... I will tell you just to cover it.
Fiberglass... grinding, sanding or anything to do with glass is bad for lungs.
Keep the kids and bystanders away, be mindful of wind.
Polyester and solvents and cabsil is not good for breathing either. again PPE safety glasses. Tyvec suits.
this list keeps growing and thats that snowball again I mentioned several times now.
And then after you fabbed or built or planned something, you see or come up with a better solution, and that gets changed several times. or you just goof and have to re-do something. it happens.
Let someone else pick up where I left off, I left plenty out. I'm sure.
Ready?
Welcome to boating. lol.
or boat building and repair.
Its a hole in the water you throw money in..

B.reak
O.ut
A.nother
T.housand
S.illy

 

[chevymaher]

I did mine in my back yard. I did not pull the cap. I know things are more expensive now. But I got mine done on 2500 bucks. Transom stringers and interior. I didn't have money to spare when I did it so I was extremely tight and focused.

 

[Lectro88]

I did mine in my back yard. I did not pull the cap. I know things are more expensive now. But I got mine done on 2500 bucks. Transom stringers and interior. I didn't have money to spare when I did it so I was extremely tight and focused.

Mine is under a tarp now. and I have to pick my days.
Nothing wrong with being tight and focused.(thats good)only thing is, if you miss something you have to wait, til you plan around it or it comes in or you stop what your doing and go get it.
Being a contractor, and running to supply house several times a day got old for me. am the same way with this hobby. keep and abundance on hand with fluff or cushion, and since covid, I find I don;t really need to worry. except for my polyester going bad. And like I said, nothing gets cheaper.
I tried making the list thing(still do)and just getting what you need right now.
But on the jobsite and something changes and you have to stop what your doing to drive 20 miles at 8 miles per gallon to buy a $1.50 item while 3 people stand around (loafing)while you are not there for 2 hrs.(traffic)and your labor stopped too. (you just killed 8 hours saving less than $10)
I started buying boxes of 25-50/100 and just stayed on site. flip a coin.
Also I have 2 projects of my own and several boat friends. so theres that too.
You will find your way. and what works for you.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I removed the cap on one of my restorations by using the garage rafters and 5 ratchet straps. after building a cradle on the trailer, I undid the rub rail, went around with a steel putty knife and a pocket knife to separate the sealant on the rub rail seam, then slowly lifted

left the cap hanging in the garage for the 14 weeks i spent replacing the transom, stringers and floor.

one restoration I did I pulled everything out of the boat in a storage unit and did the rest of the work with the boat parked in the street in front of my house.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Also, while epoxy would work fine, keep in mind that this boat almost certainly was build with polyester resin. If you use polyester, it will be significantly less expensive than epoxy. Poly is a bit stinkier, but it would be a perfectly acceptable choice.

My costs for poly resin, cloth/mat, cabosil, foam, shipping fees (incl. hazmat), and misc. glassing supplies (e.g. bubble roller, mixing cups) were just about $1200. That does not include the cost of wood, floor covering for deck, Tyvek suits, tools, etc. And I didn't have to replace stringers. Just to give you an idea. My total costs were probably in the $3000 vicinity.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Also, while epoxy would work fine, keep in mind that this boat almost certainly was build with polyester resin. If you use polyester, it will be significantly less expensive than epoxy. Poly is a bit stinkier, but it would be a perfectly acceptable choice.

My costs for poly resin, cloth/mat, cabosil, foam, shipping fees (incl. hazmat), and misc. glassing supplies (e.g. bubble roller, mixing cups) were just about $1200. That does not include the cost of wood, floor covering for deck, Tyvek suits, tools, etc. And I didn't have to replace stringers. Just to give you an idea. My total costs were probably in the $3000 vicinity.

Keep in mind, prices quoted from 2019 are now nearly doubled. I used to pay $16 a gallon for fiberglass resin, its now $28 a gallon

I would hold off on any restoration until prices come back down.

the same reason that Toyota cant sell cars is why resin prices are high. the chemicals to make the resins for fiberglass, foam for seats, etc. is in short supply because the plant in Texas is still shut down from the Texas freeze

 

[JASinIL2006]

Keep in mind, prices quoted from 2019 are now nearly doubled. I used to pay $16 a gallon for fiberglass resin, its now $28 a gallon

I would hold off on any restoration until prices come back down.

the same reason that Toyota cant sell cars is why resin prices are high. the chemicals to make the resins for fiberglass, foam for seats, etc. is in short supply because the plant in Texas is still shut down from the Texas freeze

Good point!

 

[hugh g]

Not sure if I would spend thousands to restore a 45 yr old boat with a questionable powerplant. In fact, no way would I do it. Just my $.02. I gutted my Cobra powered '87 Starcraft when the transom rotted even though I took care of it. I had just retired & didn't want to spend my first summer/fall plus grinding fiberglass, etc. I sold the engine, drive, the trailer & other parts on CL & ebay & got back more then $2k. That was 3 years ago & the boat probably wasen't worch much more then that back then because the world haden't lost it's mind yet. I'm not knocking guys that take on that project, hats off. It just wasen't for me.

 

[chevymaher]

You need a tent to work under. Not for the gutting. But when it goes back together.

Covers are not worth a nickle keeping water out. They are more a travel thing. So it don't fill up like a bathtub. Once the water is in there they make a nice humid place. Like their own eco-system, In the morning it rains. Dew forms on the cover and runs right back in.

As for the spending money on a old boat. Only way to get a equivalent shape boat to one you restored is buy new. Only 40-50 grand plus insurance because you got a loan. I am all for saving 45 grand and boating 30 or more years. If I thought like that i would never of had a boat.

The flip side of the argument is it isn't worth what you put in it. It is like people who go on vacation. Spend 15 grand and got what when they are done? 2 weeks of memories.

Take care of it and it be the only one you need to do it once. Mine lasted 30 years sitting outside neglected. Me a few grand is nothing for 30 years of going out whenever you want to.

Like i said I did it. I am all summer long counting the days and watching the weather. It got to rain to get the river up out of the mud. Not rain for 2-3 days let the crap go by. I live for it.

Hell after it is done Not counting gas. I spend thousands on the boat I don't have to. I shop in the winter for stuff since i can't go out. New cover radios life jackets fish finders. I built a boat house to keep the boat and tractor and truck in.

It is a lifestyle. Something to do. I so enjoy just riding in the boat. Washing it when I am done.

It is all up to you. Do you want to boat or not.

Get it gutted and cut the wood up. By then if prices are not down they are not coming down. Make the call.

And so ends todays episode of Rants by Randy. Tune in next week when we ...........................................................

 

[GSPLures]

Some call me pessimistic but I do not believe costs are coming down. Once people paid the current prices they will not go down. They know people need it and are willing to pay so why drop the price.

Other than that, restoring a boat is not a way to get a return on your investment but than again neither is buying one. As stated by others boating is a hobby not a cheap one either. Restoring a boat is not about money, it is about pride of knowing you built it and you know it is more than likely the most solid boat that is around you at any point and time.

 

[chevymaher]

Some call me pessimistic but I do not believe costs are coming down. Once people paid the current prices they will not go down. They know people need it and are willing to pay so why drop the price.

Other than that, restoring a boat is not a way to get a return on your investment but than again neither is buying one. As stated by others boating is a hobby not a cheap one either. Restoring a boat is not about money, it is about pride of knowing you built it and you know it is more than likely the most solid boat that is around you at any point and time.

Exactly.