Gun ownership and permits.

[southkogs]

No posts have been "banned." But I've deleted a couple of posts myself because I thought there was a good chance that the discussion would head in the wrong direction. The mods are being very cautious with this topic, and for myself I've chosen to err to being overly cautious.

 

[flyingscott]

I would hope that this does not draw politics. The question of ownership is not part of this conversation. How to responsibly own a gun is discussed here.

How so? The OPs whole post is about the rules he has to follow to own a gun.

 

[KJM]

Wow, I never knew there were so many rules in the states around gun ownership. Up here in Canada where I am, everyone assumes that anyone can just walk into a gun store down there and buy a gun no problem! Up here you just need a license which allows you to buy a "long gun" and ammo. They license can be renewed online every five or so years. Guns must be stored under locked conditions when not in use. No requirement for inspection or practice. Handguns need a special license that can be gotten but I'm not familiar with the rules around those. Assault rifles are banned altogether, I think the definition revolves around the high capacity magazine.

 

[jlh3rd]

No posts have been "banned." But I've deleted a couple of posts myself because I thought there was a good chance that the discussion would head in the wrong direction. The mods are being very cautious with this topic, and for myself I've chosen to err to being overly cautious.

you deleted my posts which were responses to laws vs "rules",
exactly what this thread covers. The OP asked what we thought about NY restrictions concerning gun ownership, so how can that not include our amendment?

 

[jlh3rd]

Wow, I never knew there were so many rules in the states around gun ownership. Up here in Canada where I am, everyone assumes that anyone can just walk into a gun store down there and buy a gun no problem! Up here you just need a license which allows you to buy a "long gun" and ammo. They license can be renewed online every five or so years. Guns must be stored under locked conditions when not in use. No requirement for inspection or practice. Handguns need a special license that can be gotten but I'm not familiar with the rules around those. Assault rifles are banned altogether, I think the definition revolves around the high capacity magazine.

what is an assault rifle?

 

[DeepCMark58A]

what is an assault rifle?

A gun with a high capacity magazine. I am not saying I agree but seems to be the spirit of the law.

 

[southkogs]

you deleted my posts which were responses to laws vs "rules",
exactly what this thread covers. The OP asked what we thought about NY restrictions concerning gun ownership, so how can that not include our amendment?

As I said, I'm erring toward overly cautious. There have been some posts that edge toward incendiary - I don't think any of it is intentional yet. But we have (in the past) had members leave over topics like this, so I'm being really careful. That might mean I'm deleting some things that don't necessarily need to be - I'll apologize for perhaps sending a bad implication. But it's a judgement call that I'm making as we go along.

 

[tphoyt]

A gun with a high capacity magazine. I am not saying I agree but seems to be the spirit of the law.

In Ma 10 rounds is the max. One of my hand guns has a 13 round mag and is considered high capacity there for I must hold a Class A license. The same gun also has an extended 20 round mag.

 

[redneck joe]

you deleted my posts which were responses to laws vs "rules",
exactly what this thread covers. The OP asked what we thought about NY restrictions concerning gun ownership, so how can that not include our amendment?

discuss deleted post via private messages with mods please. I'm not a mod, just been around a bit and that is the best way imo.

 

[redneck joe]

here are my thoughts.

I am an expert marksman in several classes of weapons been shooting for prob 55 of my 58 years.

Too many weapons here already, rounding up even if required to be 100% registered is not going to happen (like australia did).

No one will register 100% of weapons.

Weapons are a part of the american DNA, so that toothpaste will not be put back in the tube, ever.

I'm not a fan of automatic, semi automatic is ok but see above statement about mag capacity. If the world comes to an end with zombies and we need auto the rednecks will quickly figure it out again and imo full auto used by 99.9% of the people will not be effective due to lack of skilled training. In an end of world scenario the ones using bullets most efficiently will prevail. I can hit 10 targets with 10 bullets but auto can take 50 bullets to do the same task.

I'm a full believer in open carry. Since I was a kid in Eastern OR/WA/ID i saw half or better the population open carry, never thought anything of it. Later in life when I am in a situation with open carry I feel safer than anywhere else. Open carry in bars, schools, courthouse, etc no need but easily protected by an assigned force as they are now. I'm sure I've missed some on the list but that takes me to everywhere else should be 100% up the the store, church, grocery store, whatever to have and enforce its policy.

Only politics i want to throw out is I'm a libertarian, so you know my POV for this post.


be well

 

[southkogs]

Where I lived there are many gun owners. The government does the usual background checks so guns stay out of the hands that should not hold them. But once you have the gun there are a few rules that are interesting.
Every gun owner has to renew his license every so often and once a year every owner has to show up at a certified rifle range. At the range. a gun safety refreshing course , usually like a 30 to 40 minute deal must be attended. Each gun undergoes an inspection to see if it is in good shape and well maintained. At the firing range the loading and unloading practice is retaught and there is some target practice. Whoever does not come to these refresher courses has his license revoked. What do you think about this?

Let's redirect back to the question of required training and refresher courses for anyone who owns a firearm. Here's the OP.

 

[redneck joe]

Let's redirect back to the question of required training and refresher courses for anyone who owns a firearm. Here's the OP.

delete my post as needed.

 

[briangcc]

Doctors, nurses, teachers, and even architects need to have continuing education to continue holding licenses to practice. My father was a NYS registered architect and had to accrue X hours of training per licensing period or his license would be revoked.

So from that standpoint alone, I don't see an issue extending that to gun permits.

And again, being able to service your weapon in front of an inspector as part of that seems reasonable. Lost a co-worker who was cleaning his gun, which was loaded, and it went off. Had he been through some sort of refresher, maybe that accident doesn't happen.

 

[KJM]

here are my thoughts.

I am an expert marksman in several classes of weapons been shooting for prob 55 of my 58 years.

Too many weapons here already, rounding up even if required to be 100% registered is not going to happen (like australia did).

No one will register 100% of weapons.

Weapons are a part of the american DNA, so that toothpaste will not be put back in the tube, ever.

I'm not a fan of automatic, semi automatic is ok but see above statement about mag capacity. If the world comes to an end with zombies and we need auto the rednecks will quickly figure it out again and imo full auto used by 99.9% of the people will not be effective due to lack of skilled training. In an end of world scenario the ones using bullets most efficiently will prevail. I can hit 10 targets with 10 bullets but auto can take 50 bullets to do the same task.

I'm a full believer in open carry. Since I was a kid in Eastern OR/WA/ID i saw half or better the population open carry, never thought anything of it. Later in life when I am in a situation with open carry I feel safer than anywhere else. Open carry in bars, schools, courthouse, etc no need but easily protected by an assigned force as they are now. I'm sure I've missed some on the list but that takes me to everywhere else should be 100% up the the store, church, grocery store, whatever to have and enforce its policy.

Only politics i want to throw out is I'm a libertarian, so you know my POV for this post.


be well

Joe, I'm just curious and certainly not judging one way or the other, but is a libertarian the belief in no, or very minimal government? I always find it interesting how in general you guys in the states look upon the government in a negative way, sort of like an enemy. Up here in Canada we seem to more look upon the government as somewhere to turn for help. Different cultures I guess. This is probably straying way too far into politics so feel free to delete as the mods see fit.

 

[aspeck]

Joe, I'm just curious and certainly not judging one way or the other, but is a libertarian the belief in no, or very minimal government? I always find it interesting how in general you guys in the states look upon the government in a negative way, sort of like an enemy. Up here in Canada we seem to more look upon the government as somewhere to turn for help. Different cultures I guess. This is probably straying way too far into politics so feel free to delete as the mods see fit.

And really, that is the difference in political discussions and why we try to keep politics out of the forum. Because we all see politics in a different way and it can be a very emotionally charged belief.

I would say that your view of government is very general, but also very correct. Remember that the United States of America was founded on a distrust of the then current government and felt that we did not have any representation in said government. We were taxed and used, but had no say. So, from day one our "ideals" were that government had it out for the people and we had to fight against it. It is kind of inbreed into the very fabric of the country. Government might be there to help, but at what cost, what will it take for that help?

Again, this is not directed at anyone, just a "refresher" of maybe why it is seen that Americans don't trust their government.

 

[BWR1953]

Doctors, nurses, teachers, and even architects need to have continuing education to continue holding licenses to practice. My father was a NYS registered architect and had to accrue X hours of training per licensing period or his license would be revoked.

So from that standpoint alone, I don't see an issue extending that to gun permits.

And again, being able to service your weapon in front of an inspector as part of that seems reasonable. Lost a co-worker who was cleaning his gun, which was loaded, and it went off. Had he been through some sort of refresher, maybe that accident doesn't happen.

Ah, but medicine, engineering and even teaching (think AI) are constantly evolving and changing, so those folks need refresher courses and perhaps testing or certifications.

But owning and operating a firearm isn't like that, although laws may change, so owners need to be aware of such changes (like the recent removal of a carry permit in Florida).

Owning and operating a firearm seems to me to be more like owning and operating a vehicle. Basic proficiency doesn't need to be constantly tested or recertified. Those who take high performance driving courses are certainly better drivers than those who don't, but being super qualified isn't necessary to drive.

Here in Florida, there is no retesting required, other than the usual vision test for driver license renewal. The same for firearm ownership. A Colt 1911 will operate the same way that it did 113 years ago.

Aspeck made some great points about US history in Post #55 and I'd like to add to that.

The "United States" is literally a union of 50 independent states, or mini-countries, if you will. So, each has their own laws and rules which affect the citizens in those states. And they can be very different; e.g. Pennsylvania, New York and Californian are worlds apart from states like Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee and so on. And citizens and can either work to get the laws changed in their state to match their desires, or are free to move to a state with completely different values.

One other point... owning and using a firearm is a tremendous responsibility and if used erroneously, the owner should be held accountable.

 

[redneck joe]

Joe, I'm just curious and certainly not judging one way or the other, but is a libertarian the belief in no, or very minimal government? I always find it interesting how in general you guys in the states look upon the government in a negative way, sort of like an enemy. Up here in Canada we seem to more look upon the government as somewhere to turn for help. Different cultures I guess. This is probably straying way too far into politics so feel free to delete as the mods see fit.

in my case, minimal not none - that would be anarchy which my brother espoused (Danish radical). we need guardrails not overarching control. and my overarching point was the cats out of the bag now so we have to guardrail regardless.

 

[KJM]

Ah, but medicine, engineering and even teaching (think AI) are constantly evolving and changing, so those folks need refresher courses and perhaps testing or certifications.

But owning and operating a firearm isn't like that, although laws may change, so owners need to be aware of such changes (like the recent removal of a carry permit in Florida).

Owning and operating a firearm seems to me to be more like owning and operating a vehicle. Basic proficiency doesn't need to be constantly tested or recertified. Those who take high performance driving courses are certainly better drivers than those who don't, but being super qualified isn't necessary to drive.

Here in Florida, there is no retesting required, other than the usual vision test for driver license renewal. The same for firearm ownership. A Colt 1911 will operate the same way that it did 113 years ago.

Aspeck made some great points about US history in Post #55 and I'd like to add to that.

The "United States" is literally a union of 50 independent states, or mini-countries, if you will. So, each has their own laws and rules which affect the citizens in those states. And they can be very different; e.g. Pennsylvania, New York and Californian are worlds apart from states like Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee and so on. And citizens and can either work to get the laws changed in their state to match their desires, or are free to move to a state with completely different values.

One other point... owning and using a firearm is a tremendous responsibility and if used erroneously, the owner should be held accountable.

Yeah, I agree. Professional career fields are always evolving and the people involved have to stay on top of things. However, if you know how to safely operate a firearm then you know. No need to keep proving the same point.

 

[cyclops222]

Are criminals & the mentally sick required to follow the same gun laws ?

 

[jlh3rd]

curious if anyone on here knows the official stats on self defense firearm incidents per year.
If you don't, take a guess.