Glastron soft floor

[ItsNick]

Alldodge, could you give me a rough guess at how much foam I'll need to order for a repair this size? I'll be filling both sides of the boat that I have cut out. I'm getting some wildly varying figures through other research online. I don't want to order too little.

Also, I'm figuring I can get this done with 3 gal of epoxy. Am I way off?

Thank you!

 

[froggy1150]

Choose a foam manufacturer and look on their site. They will have the expansion rates and at what temp. The colder the environment the less it will expand.get at least 10-15% more than you need. I bought an extra kit and needed every bit I had

 

[alldodge]

^^^Agree
I've only done it a couple times and use the manufactures sight to make the guess. Don't remember how much I bought for either job

I like epoxy (stronger bond) but need to remember when using it there is a given amount of time between coats. Seam to remember it's a about 24 hours. If it goes past that time the surface will need to be roughed up

 

[Pmt133]

On my 195 I ordered an 80lb and 2 16lb kits. I figure I have about 40 cubic feet of foam in my boat. I measured width of compartment and average depth to get a decent guess.... approximated it as a rectangle. The 80lb kit probably would have done it alone. Gives near 2400lbs of floatation if needed.

My deck (transom to helm) took 5 gallons of poly alone.

That should give you something to check your numbers against at least. Good luck!

 

[alldodge]

BTW first thing you should get is a bunch of PPE
You want head to toe with booties and a good full face mask

 

[TripleJGraffis]

BTW first thing you should get is a bunch of PPE
You want head to toe with booties and a good full face mask

Definitely this! Ya don't want to end up like I did

 

[ItsNick]

You guys wear respirators?!

Kidding. Ill grab a couple tyvek suits and goggles. Used to be a pro at safety squints, but after a piece of hot slag bounced off the anvil and hit my right eye, im now a believer.

 

[ItsNick]

Currently deciding if I want to replace the fuel tank while I have everything apart. Old one seems to be in one piece, however it has sagged close to the sending unit and is generally looking alittle worse for wear.

The specific model doesn't seem to be produced by Moeller anymore, so my options are either making a custom aluminum tank, or finding a current production tank that fits. Either way expensive with material costs these days.

 

[alldodge]

Most aluminum tanks are made by Florida marine tank which is now in North Carolina.

If it was mine, I would remove the tank just to replace the foam. I'll about guarantee the foam is wet

 

[ItsNick]

I feel confident I could make a tank myself. Seems like a relatively simple procedure for a guy with a tig welder. I'm just not sure it'll be cheap enough to make the effort worthwhile. We shall see.

 

[alldodge]

Could be there is nothing wrong with the tank

 

[TripleJGraffis]

Currently deciding if I want to replace the fuel tank while I have everything apart. Old one seems to be in one piece, however it has sagged close to the sending unit and is generally looking alittle worse for wear.

The specific model doesn't seem to be produced by Moeller anymore, so my options are either making a custom aluminum tank, or finding a current production tank that fits. Either way expensive with material costs these days.

Run a pressure test

 

[alldodge]

Run a pressure test

I wouldn't do that unless your very careful. No more the about 3 psi using a bicycle pump. Getting much above that turns a tank into a bomb

If tank comes out and you don't see pitting in the inside or outside IMO your good

 

[TripleJGraffis]

I wouldn't do that unless your very careful. No more the about 3 psi using a bicycle pump. Getting much above that turns a tank into a bomb

If tank comes out and you don't see pitting in the inside or outside IMO your good

I ran a pressure test on my tank after removing it. I didn't go a hair over 3psi. Everything worked perfect. Sprayed soapy water all over it...No bubbles.....I then cleaned it up and added a layer of resin over it for extra protection...Personal choice...not mandatory. just saying...The man is worried about not being able to find a different tank that fits...... This would alleviate the need for that if it doesn't leak.

 

[alldodge]

I ran a pressure test on my tank after removing it. I didn't go a hair over 3psi. Everything worked perfect. Sprayed soapy water all over it...No bubbles.....I then cleaned it up and added a layer of resin over it for extra protection...Personal choice...not mandatory. just saying...The man is worried about not being able to find a different tank that fits...... This would alleviate the need for that if it doesn't leak.

Resin will add strength to the walls but wouldn't keep it from leaking, need epoxy for that. Gas gets in contact with poly resin it just dissolves it. New aluminum tanks recommend epoxy paint coating on outside.

 

[Pmt133]

Ethanol dissolves most epoxy too. (Chemical reaction, no way around it) There are however a handful that are fuel rated. Unlike poly it needs pretty sustained contact to fail. But I've seen and dealt with enough to not trust it for a repair or to coat. The stuff that works isn't cheap.

 

[alldodge]

Ethanol dissolves most epoxy too. (Chemical reaction, no way around it) There are however a handful that are fuel rated. Unlike poly it needs pretty sustained contact to fail. But I've seen and dealt with enough to not trust it for a repair or to coat. The stuff that works isn't cheap.

Evidence please

 

[Pmt133]

Evidence please

Lifted directly from west system in a tech article:

"With the increasing use of alcohol and other high-tech additives, we are unsure how epoxy will resist them in the future. We do know that many types of alcohol vigorously attack epoxy; we can only conclude that gasoline with a higher percentage of alcohol may break down an epoxy coating over a long period of time."

And from my time working in the lab... Back when I ran our lab we used a couple dozen different epoxies for various testing measures. Clean up consisted of one of two practices... Heat the plates to 500 degrees and the stuff crumbles right off as you scrape, or soak in regular old E10 for a few hours and the majority of them were like play-doh. There were a couple that were pretty resilient and a few of those were used in industry for tank manufacture that I am aware of.

There certainly are plenty of epoxy-fiberglass tanks in service in industry that have nice long life cycles. It certainly is done just fine. I have a dozen just at my plant....

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, sorry if that's how it came off.

 

[alldodge]

Thanks, all good
West marine "they are unsure"
Your test show issues

Me, before E10 even came about I had a small fiberglass tub and put gas in it to clean some parts. The next day it ate right thru and dissolved the bottom

Florida marine and tank coats outside of there tanks with epoxy (cost more) all to keep moisture away. Water will pit aluminum

 

[Pmt133]

Thanks, all good
West marine "they are unsure"
Your test show issues

Me, before E10 even came about I had a small fiberglass tub and put gas in it to clean some parts. The next day it ate right thru and dissolved the bottom

Florida marine and tank coats outside of there tanks with epoxy (cost more) all to keep moisture away. Water will pit aluminum

My new tank from Atlantic coastal is also epoxy coated outside. The paints/coatings seem significantly more resilient. Mostly provides a good barrier. My original tank made it 40 years uncoated, I hope to get at least that out of the new one:


And my testing was for sure flawed. It was however eye opening (and connected a practical application of wet chemistry from a lecture note in organic chem). West system also admits there are ones available that are more resilient.