four banger volvo wont start up and run

[Nickypoo]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

I know 2 strokes and ether are a no-no, but we've always used ether on 4 strokes...I'd like to know why the OP thinks it's a bad idea as well.

I don't know what his reason is, but I know you aren't supposed to use starting fluid on diesels because the starting fluid causes abnormally high combustion pressures, which can damage the internals of the engine.

 

[89ravendeckboater]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

i agree diesels and small engines are a sure no no but this in all sense is a car motor. It does have "marine" parts but essentially is a car motor. Hopefully my carb parts come and i can finish off this post by saying it fires, runs and everything is great!

 

[biggziff]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

The thing is that an inboard is in a contained area.

On a car, imagine the plastic cracks and it leaks a little gas. No big deal as it will leak out onto the street and the fumes are not contained either. Sure it could cause a fire but the fresh ventilation for the car motor makes it a lot less likely.

On a boat, that fuel will just pool in the bilge area. The fumes have nowhere to go. So not only do you have gas sitting in the back of the boat but the fumes collect and can be ignited by a spark, hence the addition of spark arrestors on everything electrical on a boat motor.

Use an inline metal filter, just to be safe.

Makes sense to me. Thanks

I don't know what his reason is, but I know you aren't supposed to use starting fluid on diesels because the starting fluid causes abnormally high combustion pressures, which can damage the internals of the engine.

Huh...my dad drove tractor trailers for 33 years and has had 3 diesel pusher motor homes and all of them had ether used on them at some point to get them running.

Some Caterpillar heavy equipment comes from the factory with automatic ether injection for use in the colder months.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

Huh...my dad drove tractor trailers for 33 years and has had 3 diesel pusher motor homes and all of them had ether used on them at some point to get them running.

Some Caterpillar heavy equipment comes from the factory with automatic ether injection for use in the colder months.

Well, you aren't "supposed" to because there is that risk. It can be done safely, but if you go overboard on the amount you use then it can do serious damage. I have personally used starting fluid on our little mini excavator (diesel), but I did so very cautiously. It's just better practice not to.

I assume the auto ether injection you are talking about on Caterpillars probably meters the amount injected precisely. I doubt it just dumps it in there.


Sorry about the thread hijack :redface: oops

 

[89ravendeckboater]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

I am haveing ZERO luck with anything. replaced the accelerator pump diaphram, cleaned to carb but still nothing. wont try to do anything with gasoline. Carb cleaner makes it run for a second but gas will do nothing. ether is the same....will try but not for long. Im out of options and ideas and think it may be time to spend an hour labor at a marine mechanic shop for diagnosis and see what they say and if im missing something obvious. Ive never gotten whooped like this!!!

 

[89ravendeckboater]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

another idea my cousin and i had was to switch out the volvo and outdrive to a mercruiser. there is a guy here selling one complete and running for 500 but by the looks of it everything is different and would require lots of work. Any thoughts??

 

[81 Checkmate]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

If it will firer with carb cleaner....... Then it has to be a fuel issue.

Does the fuel pump work?

I would try my best to not let it take me down! As you said early in a post it's just an auto engine with boat parts on it.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

another idea my cousin and i had was to switch out the volvo and outdrive to a mercruiser. there is a guy here selling one complete and running for 500 but by the looks of it everything is different and would require lots of work. Any thoughts??

Is this an entire Mercruiser drive line (engine and drive), or just the drive?

If it's just the drive, it will not work at all with a Volvo engine.
If it's an entire drive line, the engine mounts will be different, and the hole in the transom for your Volvo is too big for a Merc, so the transom would need to be rebuilt along with the hull being re-glassed.

In other words stick to what you have.

Have you looked at the trouble shooting guide for checking your fuel system in the "Adults only section" ?;
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=283269

If you follow this, you will most likely have a better understanding of what's going on.


A word on ether.
Seems people are confused about what ether's intended purposes are.
Ether is a throw-back to when diesels didn't have glow plugs, and needed help getting started, especially in the winter months.
Modern diesels (especially thoes with glow plugs and pre-heaters) can damaged by ether, along with all gasoline engines.

Yes they still sell lots of ether, and yes people get away with using it, but it is not really good to use in any engine that wasn't designed to use it. It has quick burn rate (0 octane), and generates cylinder pressures that are well above what normal gasoline in the combustion process produces.

I'm sure there will be some one along to tell me I don't know my *** from my elbow, and they use the stuff religiously in everything they own, and on their cereal in the morning, but with so many other options to aid in starting an out of tune engine, I would never use it.

Carb cleaner, or a little mist bottle with some fresh gasoline in it is an acceptable alternative.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

You said the head was just recently rebuilt. Who installed it?

 

[sethjon]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

Trying to get this thing up and running and back to how it was two decades ago isnt easy and i've used this forum plenty before registering so i know i will probably get some very useful info. This deck boat is an 89 deck boat with a 4 cylinder. I have no clue what actual model it is becuase the previous owner switched the motor out and is no longer around to let me know. I bought it from my cousins neighbor who inherited it when his dad passed. I am a car mechanic with about 10 years experience so i have checked everything i can think of before asking for direction. The head was JUST rebuilt with all new parts (still very clean aluminum when looking in from the oil fill cap), the timing is dead on the money, compression is good, distributor cap is new, rotor is new(im not sure what the boating world calls them but on cars its called a rotor inside the distributor), plugs are brand new volvo plugs, wires are so-so but are firing because i checked with an inline spark tester. I can dump gas in the carb and it attempted to fire a couple times but never busted off. My gas tank is full of NASTY old gas and im in the process of cleaning it out to reinstall which is why i have to dump the gas in the carb. My question is, if the motor has sat unstarted for at least a year could it just be that it takes an unusual amount of time to bust off or is there something anyone can recommend for me to check that i have overlooked? Any help would be great!!

Its not just the gas you need to clean out. In all probability, you will have to pull the carb and reallly go through it. You may have to clean the entire fuel system. Does the gas have an odd odor? If so, its beginning to turn in a gummy substance.

 

[89ravendeckboater]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

a marine mechanic installed the head. I think its a place around here called coastal marine or something. It was at a professional, reputable shop. As far as the gas is concerned it was bad for sure. Everything was!! its got an entire new fuel system on it. THe carb has been torn down, cleaned and put back together and adjusted as best as it can be without it actually running. Tomorrow morning i am going to go back to what i do with cars im stuck on and tear down previous people work and start from scratch. My inkling is the distributor may not be perfect. I ran into it after i posted about not getting anywhere. If i adjust the distributor all the way one direction it dosent look like its at #1 perfectly. I think the distributor may have been installed one or two teeth off. Ill let you know tomorrow. Thanks for the input!!

 

[biggziff]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

If i adjust the distributor all the way one direction it dosent look like its at #1 perfectly. I think the distributor may have been installed one or two teeth off. Ill let you know tomorrow. Thanks for the input!!

The rotor doesn't have to be perfectly at 1 but you should be able to adjust it very close.

Did it ever run since the head has been off? Have you verified that that valve timing is correct?

Spark
Air
Fuel

If you have spark it has to be air/fuel or timing. Start with the basics and work you way to the solution.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

Did it ever run since the head has been off? Have you verified that that valve timing is correct?

Spark
Air
Fuel

If you have spark it has to be air/fuel or timing. Start with the basics and work you way to the solution.

This is what I was hinting at by asking about the head. It would be a good idea to verify that everything on the timing belt was timed correctly, even if it was installed at a reputable shop. They may have missed the timing on the accessory shaft.

 

[89ravendeckboater]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

i came out this morning and tore off the distributor, timing belt, plugs and wires and did it all myself and she fired RIGHT up!!! NO hesitation, nothing. Obviously either i overlooked the timing marks or wire placement of the distributor wasnt perfect but she is up and running now. The only issue now is the timing belt is walking off. I probably have a warped pulley because they are all pretty rusted but that is trivial compared to making it run! Thanks for the help and insight guys

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

I'm glad you were able to get it resolved.

 

[dennis461]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

another idea my cousin and i had was to switch out the volvo and outdrive to a mercruiser. there is a guy here selling one complete and running for 500 but by the looks of it everything is different and would require lots of work. Any thoughts??

A lot more work than getting the fuel system back in shape.
The carb rebuild won't work unless all the passages are cleaned out, and not with fluids.
Get small pieces of wire and push it through every tiny hole inside and out on the carb.
Throw away the fuel lines and put new ones on.
Take the mechanical fuel pump off and see if it works.

Completely drain the fuel tank, put new gas in it.

Is the firing order correct?
Are the plug gaps correct and clean?

What state/country are you in?
There may someone nearby to help out.

 

[89ravendeckboater]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

one last question....for now. the flap on the outdrive for the exhaust blew to pieces today when I finally got it started, is that a mandatory part or will it be kosher without one? I figure unless there is a bent valve in the motor there shouldn't be a vacuum that would actually pull water into the motor through the exhaust. Any thoughts?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

you wont need the flap as long as you dont slow down, go in reverse, or have a wave come behind you.

I would replace it.

 

[biggziff]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

one last question....for now. the flap on the outdrive for the exhaust blew to pieces today when I finally got it started, is that a mandatory part or will it be kosher without one? I figure unless there is a bent valve in the motor there shouldn't be a vacuum that would actually pull water into the motor through the exhaust. Any thoughts?

This question has been asked before and I've read where many on here haven't had on on their boat for many years with no ill effects. YMMV

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: four banger volvo wont start up and run

you wont need the flap as long as you dont slow down, go in reverse, or have a wave come behind you.

I would replace it.

I'm on this side of the argument, but you will see many people who say it's not necessary.

I would rather be on the safe side when dealing with the chance of water getting into my engine.