Found me a project trailer...

[ratdude747]

I love my boat (1976 Starcraft Montego), but I hate the trailer, mainly how high it rides. It also seems to be be too big. While the trailer is older than the boat by a year (MFD. in 1975), it's technically not original, the original low-riding Aluminum dual-axle traded for this due to the original owners' property not being compatible with the wide trailer.

So, after doing some FB marketplace sleuthing, yesterday, I picked what will be the bones to what I am intending to be the ultimate trailer for this boat:







(bunks were removed after several bolts fell out on the road)

I'd have to look at the title again to see who made it... but it's from 1981. Newer than the boat, but close enough to still be vintage? (The truck is a 1984 FWIW)

It's a bit rough. Tires and all rollers are dry rotted badly. Bunks are toast. Winch and jack are junk. The lights (all 9 of them!) and wiring are fried. And I paid more that I was hoping ($600, talked down from $650). But, there are five things that to me, justified the purchase:

1. The bones are (mostly) solid. A couple relatively minor issues with the steel, but otherwise a repaint should make it nice and "purdy".
2. It appears to be sized just about right for my boat. Not oversized like the current one.
   1. Note: it looks big in the pictures... but the bow roller/winch are all the way forward (and if anything, further forward than it was ever supposed to go). In comparison, such is as far back as it will go on the current trailer, and the bunks protrude past the stern by several inches.
3. It has the low ride I'm looking for.
   1. Pictures are a bit deceiving... but already it's 2-3" lower, and that's without the weight of the boat or being sunk into the ground a bit like the current trailer.
   2. Likewise, the frame is a full 1' wider (6' vs 5').
4. The fenders and steps to the side are very generously sized. Unlike my current one which is sometimes tricky, especially when wet!
5. Biggest one: It has a title. If you're a Hoosier who owns trailers, you know what I mean. Indiana titles all trailers, and ones out of state are often not titled. While this is a solvable problem (if the VIN number and the make/model are visible), it is a royal pain to get right... it took me four tries to get the current trailer right (it and the boat were grandfathered as the previous owners were original, buying both in 1976).

Next, here are the known issues (in addition to what was mentioned above):

• One of the steps was broken from the welds in the past, and wasn't welded in the correct location:
  
  
  
  
  • Might be fixable by grinding the bad weld and re-welding it in the correct location. Or I leave it the heck alone?
• The left fender is mashed up (see above)... and the right fender is rotted away:
  
  • These (unlike the steps and unlike the current trailer) are bolted on, so if I can get replacements (or make/have some made), they'll be easy to swap.
  • Also, note the very bad bunk... but in use, I think these are more means to be guides than supports, like the rear side rollers?
• The lights don't work and are beat to death... and for some reason, they found it necessary to add a bunch of extra side rear lights and center rear lights:
  
  
  
  • I'll need to review IN law... I know my 14' car hauler (which is bigger) only has combo lights in the back and amber marker lights in the front and last I checked it was legal.

In addition to fixing everything that's broken or worn out, here's some mods I'd like to do before it goes into use:

• Possibly look into adding more bunks if the two aren't enough (the current trailer has two additional partial-length bunks, with much beefier looking eye-bolt supports).
  • Per Starcraft in a 1977 catalog that came with the boat, the dry weight is 1095lb. But I don't know what engine that was with (mine has the Mercruiser 888 (302 V8), the biggest I/O they offered in the Montego 16 at the time)
  • A coworker who is an avid boater suggested making the bunks longer... but I'm not sure that's needed?
• Possibly add slicks to the bunks... or use non-carpeted bunks all together.
• Add/retrofit electric brakes. This is a current issue. My truck already has a brake controller (for my car hauler), and the current setup pushes my brakes to the limit.
  • I'd have to look again, but I don't think the current axle has backer plates already. It also is oddball in how the springs attach:
    
    
  • I'll likely add bearing buddies as well, like my current trailer has.
• Roller replacement: Stick with black rubber, or is clear yellow polyurethane (or whatever such is made from) a better option?

This will likely be back burner'd for a while due to finances and other projects (such as the boat itself!)... my current trailer still works, after all.

 

[tphoyt]

You probably know will put more into than you plan to but it looks like you have a decent platform to work with. In Ma. you can title as home made and it helps to save all your refurb recipes. Good find. Even though I know the price of trailers it still blows my mind how much they cost. Post some finish pics
All the Best

 

[Scott Danforth]

your motor and drive will weigh in about 750#

your hull without motor is about 700# from what I found.

then add weight of battery, fuel, gear, etc.

the bunks should just pass the transom

 

[ratdude747]

your motor and drive will weigh in about 750#

your hull without motor is about 700# from what I found.

then add weight of battery, fuel, gear, etc.

the bunks should just pass the transom

Define "just pass". The current trailer has about 6".

 

[ratdude747]

Doing some research. The trailer laws sticky is a dead link, but I did find this instead:

(Removed link to avoid violating competitor company rules)

This trailer is a Type 2 (pretty sure it's over 80", maybe 84"?... certainly under 30' and 10,000lb GVWR)... which is just combo lights and front markers. The extra lights can go away?

Edit- I'm reading other places that over 80" does require the three stop lights, along with separate "as high as possible" rear clearance lights. Which other than the incorrect color, does match what was installed. Clear as mud.

Edit2: Here we go: https://www.grote.com/fmvss/trailers-boat/

Yep, looks like they got the rear clearance lights wrong.

 

[ratdude747]

Took some measurements...

Trailer is 95.5" wide... so yep, over 80".

Looks like I need to add amber lights to the front of the steps/fenders, possibly move the forward set of amber lights (well, replace) to around the tongue, and replace the secondary set of amber lights in the back with red lights up top (if extended length "over 80" combo lights like currently mounted don't count). I'll replace every light since they're incandescent and therefore junk in this day and age of cheap yet decent LEDs.

Back to the structure, I'm not having luck finding fenders like what's on there (only not mangled / rotten). Will need to custom fabricate such. The good news is I have access to sheet metal tools and good welding equipment... the bad news is that that access is at work, so not super accessible for personal uses. I have other options as well, so this will be figured out.

Bunk wise, I'm thinking I ought to upgrade to 2x6 bunks to ensure I have enough support for the weight of the boat. The current trailer's long bunks are "8 ft" 2x4's, so I'll probably stick with that length. The fender bunks are made from 1x8's... same fabric size as 2x6's?

Roller wise, I'm thinking Stoltz Orange PUR is the way to go; buy once, cry once. The corner rollers are weird though... the center section is 7.25" long. Maybe take 12"/10" flat rollers and saw them down?

I'm 90% sure I'll replace the axle... looking at it, the axle in the current configuration needs to be a "v" axle... as it looks like the keel rollers barely clear the current axle. It doesn't have brake flanges anyway. It's an odd size though, currently 88.5" flange to flange (if my measurements and guesses measuring through the rims is to be believed). Springs are 69" center to-center. The closest I'm seeing in off-the-shelf axles (galvanized 2") are 87" flange to flange. I'll need to take a measure at tire clearances to see if there is 3/4" of room to narrow such up.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

If you're interested, I work in a boat repair shop in Indiana. For your trailer, we could paint it, replace bunks, do some welding and dent removal, maybe lights and wiring. The boss might be able to find a set of fenders, but to have a matching pair you will likely need to replace both. We dont do axles or suspension, but I think the boss knows a place that does.

If you're interested, I can pm you the shop's number. Keep in mind, I just work there. I can't give any idea on price or scheduling.

 

[ratdude747]

If you're interested, I work in a boat repair shop in Indiana. For your trailer, we could paint it, replace bunks, do some welding and dent removal, maybe lights and wiring. The boss might be able to find a set of fenders, but to have a matching pair you will likely need to replace both. We dont do axles or suspension, but I think the boss knows a place that does.

If you're interested, I can pm you the shop's number. Keep in mind, I just work there. I can't give any idea on price or scheduling.

Thanks and noted.

For personal and financial reasons I'm not looking to farm much if any of this out.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

I've used this a little bit working on my truck. You might want to get the trailer sand blasted and spray with this if possible. Just respray any welds or grinsing work as you go.

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Etch-Weld-Thru-Primer-Brown/dp/B00H2WEYYM?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1410XXRFCNUJL&gQT=1

 

[ratdude747]

I've used this a little bit working on my truck. You might want to get the trailer sand blasted and spray with this if possible. Just respray any welds or grinsing work as you go.

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Etch-Weld-Thru-Primer-Brown/dp/B00H2WEYYM?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1410XXRFCNUJL&gQT=1

I've seen that stuff before.

That said, I found out what likely happened to the re-welded step. The angle roller bracket on that side was bent and I wasn't able to hammer it straight (at least with a 4lb drilling hammer, I didn't try the 4lb mini sledge). Likely, something terrible happened (trailering crash?) that bent the roller bracket and slammed the step down (hence why the weld was busted inwards). They then bent the step upwards enough to move the bent roller bracket back into rough alignment and welded it there. Not a pretty repair, but I may let it go since it may be a mess fixing it. Or not... I'm sure it can be straightened with the right application of leverage/force.

I've completed the first bit of planned demolition work... getting the angle rollers removed. This was fun due to the rollers using push nuts on the bottom... inaccessible. I ended having to destroy the upper end rollers to allow the shaft to drop low enough so I could pry the push nuts off the shaft.

As for the fenders needing redone: another option I have would be to draw it up as 5 sheet metal panels and have somebody laser/water jet/etc. them from sheet metal, then weld them up. Or at least laser out bendable blanks, then bend them on a brake and then weld like the originals or some combination of both ideas. I have CAD access through work (which as a fringe benefit, I can use on my personal time for personal projects)... My concern is that I've had issues with the brake at work not bending things precisely on an indicated line (worn/misadjusted fingers)... perfectly fine for fabricating things to use on a factory floor, but not so good for trying to bend a pattern.

All the fenders I've seen online don't have the inside "slant" that the 1x8 bunks attach to... so it will have to be custom.

On that note, per some measurements, there is plenty of room between the trailer tire and the frame... but the fender slant eats that up and it's actually somewhat tight up top with the current tires relative to the top of the slant. I took some better measurements on the flange measurements... I'm calculating 88": 69" spring center, and 9.5" from the existing hub flange (rim surface) to the spring center. I have yet to see a v-bend axle with brake flanges in 88"... 85.5" and 92" are common though. Maybe use rims with a different offset? I put some surplus 15" Aluminum Ford Ranger rims on my car hauler and they stick out a bit (but they're also wider than normal trailer rims, so maybe no change to the inside clearance)... Ford also made rims for Ranger's in 14" with the same common bolt pattern. Maybe an option to get axles and fenders to agree? Edit: I had the wrong numbers.. not close enough that rims will fix it.

Edit: Seems that 88" is common in straight and drop axles. I wonder if the solution is to use a drop axle and mount said axle below the spring instead of above?

Edit 2: Also seems that said axles above either don't come in a 69" spring center (or if "adjustable", have a minimum of 70"). I have found a place or two that can produce custom axles though... so maybe that's the route I'll need to go.

 

[ratdude747]

Per more research and pondering, I think I am seeing what happened with the axle... I'm suspecting it was originally an overslung setup, and somebody converted it to underslung. Explains the tight wheel and keel clearance.

So, if I fixed such (converted back to overslung), that would correct both issues. But, I'd lose some of my lowness.

The fun part would be seeing if drum brake flanges can be fitted (welded) to the axle... from what I'm reading, I'll want to farm that out due to the jig requirements (and also, it being somewhat safety related). And if not, maybe just put a new straight axle on it and be done.

Stinks that I'd loose some of the low riding, but the fender/step to boat clearances would still be improved. The goal here is to make things right... which means de-cheating things when it makes sense.

 

[ratdude747]

Other than the winch stand being way taller, that trailer looks to be identical or close to such. It appears that on that one the axle is in fact underslung... so maybe what I have is correct despite looking off? On my trailer, I just don't see how with the springs installed the axle isn't going to crash the keel of the boat. I'll take another look with a board/yardstick when I get home and see.

One other note... is my winch stand being short and low a problem? It has a lot of extension so it'll probably still make contact, just lower on the bow. Edit- In the pictures it looks low and there is no vertical adjustment. Add that to the "might need to redo list". Maybe remount the bracket on an angle instead of straight up?

 

[ratdude747]

Having seen pictures of another trailer likely of the same manufacturer and design, it appears that on that one the axle is in fact underslung... so maybe what I have is correct despite looking off? On my trailer, I just don't see how with the springs installed the axle isn't going to crash the keel of the boat. I'll take another look with a board/yardstick when I get home and see.

One other thing that picture had me thinking about... the winch stand doesn't look right. Probably too low for the bow eye on my boat. Might be fixable with just a new roller bracket (or even re-drilling the post and re-angling the existing bracket), but I may need to replace the entire stand... I wonder if this trailer was made for a shallow-keeled bass boat, despite the seller claiming it was for a runabout... shame on me?

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

Just swap the old bow stand to the new trailer. You need to be able to get the eye up against the roller or it will bounce while towing.

 

[ratdude747]

Just swap the old bow stand to the new trailer. You need to be able to get the eye up against the roller or it will bounce while towing.

The bow stand on the old trailer is messed up... another mark against said trailer and why I wanted to replace it. Water got into the main tube of said stand and froze/ballooned the bottom something fierce (what the really rusty area on it is). Not bad enough that I'm worried about the current trailer in the short term (it seems solid, and is old damage), but bad enough that I'd rather not reuse it. Plus, that makes for more shore work on trailer swap day. Theoretically I can take some measurements and get the location roughed in ahead of time (since I'll need it close to be able to trailer it initially)... anything that's liable to be a pain in the butt I'd rather not be scrambling to do while my boat is on the water with somebody else. Moving over the winch is one thing (back straps and safety chain/cable/turnbuckle could wait until the boat is on the new trailer in the parking lot). Having to guess all the dimensions on the winch stand is another.

One other thing while I'm thinking about it... this trailer had a turnbuckle for a safety cable/chain. Most of it is gone (just one eye bolt left)... any chance that was being used as a rigid restraint that allows one to run a low roller? I've read of some trailers using such and many people using ratchet straps or extra transom straps instead (which would explain why only the eye bolt is there). Just trying to figure out how it was supposed to work.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

I've only seen a few of the turn buckles. Yeah, it's old stuff. Mostly what I see with more current stuff is a second shorter strap as a safety. Sometimes it's a second short strap and hook stitched onto the main winch strap, sometimes an independent strap going from bow eye to an eye on the trailer.

Edit: No soliciting on the open forum. Considering this your warning.

 

[ratdude747]

Took some measurements... and I now have a 3D CAD model of that fender. I've attached a 3D PDF for those who are curious. I haven't gotten to the point of generating flat patterns or the like, but that'll be the next step. I'm thinking of getting these cut somewhere, then bend them and weld them myself ... or have a shop make it; having CAD and (eventually) drawings hopefully will take a bit of the work out of it.





(Other than it being sheet metal, the is second nature... by day I'm a automotive manufacturing engineer, and drawing things up in CAD to be made is a decent chunk of my job!).

Some other notes:

• Something is up... there are rub marks on the inside of the fender. Definitely too low. And there is only 1" between the axle and the keel rollers per a check with a 2x4. Unsprung, the axle is higher then the lowest point of the V-bent frame tubes.
• Flipping the axle will result in 3" gained in ride height. This excessive?
• The spring seems a bit flat compared to most leaf springs I've seen. The rubber spring and shackle bushings are wasted... as is the rubber in the leaf bands. Sounds like the springs are shot as well?.
• The axle can be flipped... spring attachment is 2 U bolts and the through-stud.
• The axle is a 2x2 square tube. Can brake flanges be obtained in that size? Or new axle needed if I want to add brakes?

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

I've only seen a few of the turn buckles. Yeah, it's old stuff. Mostly what I see with more current stuff is a second shorter strap as a safety. Sometimes it's a second short strap and hook stitched onto the main winch strap, sometimes an independent strap going from bow eye to an eye on the trailer.

Edit: No soliciting on the open forum. Considering this your warning.

To the moderator who deleted my post.
Understood, your house your rules.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

Ratdude, do you want any more pictures of the trailer for reference? I'm offering for visual reference only, not trying to sell anything.

 

[ratdude747]

Ratdude, do you want any more pictures of the trailer for reference? I'm offering for visual reference only, not trying to sell anything.

The only thing that comes to mind is the spring setup and if it is overslung or underslung. To help deduce where the issue is.