Engine Removal on 1988 Sylvan

[Searay205]

take boat to dump pay $55 to dump it, not worth it.

 

[Rivergator]

Searay205 I didn't mess with or move engine at all. All I did was to prepare engine to be pulled. That's when I realized that the rear mounts were frozen. These were the last 2 things to be loosened on the engine. That's when I stopped with the engine and proceeded to remove outdrive, which I am not able to. Up to that point engine did not move at all from its original position. If it was out of alignment it was that before I started.
What bolt are you talking about, that I should break the top off? The breaker bar I am using is a monsterbar 20" long with a 3/4" head and another 2 feet extension and a second man if needed.

 

[Searay205]

You can't get outdrive off. Its probably shot or will get busted. Engine sounds shot. You will put more money into boat not counting sweat equity then it will ever be worth. Find you a freshwater running boat. Ok now that we have good path forward lets have fun. When pushing on you breaker bar always push away from you. You don't need to add a dentist trip to this activity. You strap is too low on the outrdrive get it as high as possible try to pull straight off. That bolt will come out. If you could get the engine free you could pull it forward away from outdrive. You have 600lbs? of mass you can pull forward that will allow the outdrive to come off. I assuming you have enough room to pull engine forward a little. Once you break it free the outdrive can be pulled off the back. Get rear bolts out of motor mounts. really need to come out. if those are out support engine with hoist but don't lift. Get a 2x4 and a couple bottle jacks. jack engine forward against 2x4 on back of hull. the outdrive will break free.

 

[nola mike]

• Easy enough to give your trim solenoid 12v if you want to try that method again. Can you get anything back there to cut the yoke off at the coupler? I'm *still* thinking that your engine is so far out of alignment that you can't get the drive off or loosen those rear mount bolts.

 

[Pruno]

Been watching this thread as I plan on pulling my motor this fall.
trying to think outside the box...maybe you could separate the OD at the u-joint? It’d be tight, but cut out the bellows and cut one of the crosses. Then you might have the room to drill out the gimbal bearing which could give you the wiggle room to pull the yoke out whether it’s frozen in the bearing or way out of alignment. I’m not a metallurgist so I have no idea if it’s possible to cut the u joint, but I’d try it if it were mine (I doubt it would be possible to press them out)
doesn’t sound like you’ll get them apart without breaking something, I’d go after a part that’s probably going to be replaced anyway. Good luck.


Matt

 

[kenny nunez]

My post 19 is going to be the final solution. Believe me guys I have been there where everything was rusted -frozen and the good old smoke wrench, pneumatic chisel and drill was what it has taken in the past.

 

[Rivergator]

........high as possible try to pull straight off. That bolt will come out.

I am still trying to figure out what bolt you are talking about. I am not ready to throw in the towel yet but if both engine and drive are FUBAR I will take a serious evaluation of the whole project. Theoretically I could pull the engine straight back. I do have a good foot of open space in front of the engine, but this is not possible at the moment because my rear mounts are stuck. Just to satisfy my curiosity and to find out why my rear motor mount bolts are stuck I twisted the head off of one of the bolts with my 3/4" monster breaker bar + extension and now I am convinced that the bolt is rusted shut to the mount and not to the bottom nut. It took way too much torque to break that head off for the problem to be caused by a stuck nut. The entire motor mount has a solid grip on that bolt and the final solution will be to break off the other head too and then take the torch to the mounts and burn away the rubber of the mounts and then LIFT the engine over the broken off studs. But of course lifting will not be possible as long as the drive is in (catch 22). Matt's idea is worth trying. I will take a close look at the possibility to get in there thru the uj bellow and destroy the gimbal bearing. There is one more thing I will try to offset a grossly misaligned shaft/coupler since this is probably the core problem and since the engine is still on the hoist. In the previous trial I have loosened the front motor mounts, lifted the engine about an 1/4 of an inch and wiggled it as good as i could in the hopes to break the shaft loose, but what if the bind is the other way and lifting made it only worse. Tomorrow I will try to remove for front motor mounts and lower the engine a little bit and see what gives. Keep my fingers crossed and I keep you posted.

 

[Searay205]

the bolt i refereeing is the one that broke. Is it not possible to drive it down, the broken stud. Let it drop out the bottom. maybe not but if you can get it out pulling engine forward should break it free from outdrive.

 

[kenny nunez]

With the head of the bolt broken off it is still not possible to drive the bolt down because the bolt is going through the rusted core of mount. I am pretty sure that the drive shaft is bound up in the drive coupler. Even if you were able to exert enough force to pull the core out of the drive coupler the drive will still not come off because the core is too large to come through the inner transom plate.
So, the only option after the shaft is cut is to hook a chain to the rear of the engine using a threaded hole on the back of the heads. Pull up just enough to get the cutting torch between the bottom of mount and the inner transom plate to cut the bolt .
After the engine is out then the remainder of the mount bolt can be driven down with the nut. Cut the head off the remaining bolt. The rear mounts now can be driven down out of the adapter with a socket that fits inside of the bore of top of the mount bushing. As you can see I have done this before.

 

[Searay205]

I hate to say i had a similar issue on an Alpha 1 bolt that was holding the upper and lower drives together. I could not get them apart but finally i got far enough to use a hacksaw blade. I cut the bolt and once outdrives were apart i drove the stud out of the upper outdrive. I dimpled the bolt driving it out. If i would not have seen it i would have never believed it. that's when i learned sometimes you use thread sealant not to prevent a leak but to protect the threads. On that fastener i greased the shank with grease never had an issue again. That was exposed to saltwater all the time. Yours being inside the haul i am surprised it is so tight. what a job...

 

[Rivergator]

I say everything in life is more or less a challenge and an exercise of thinking and ideas and no matter how FUBAR things seem to be in the end a solution will be found. If we can land on the moon we can undo a fricking MerCruiser. On a bythought, looks to me that this alignment issue is a major design flaw. It should not be sooooo critical. That's what U-joints are for to compensate for variations in a straight line. Keep you posted if I make any progress.
P.S.: Kenny, you explained it pretty much. I do believe you have done this before more than once. - LOL!
What do you all think about my idea to burn the rear motor mounts to a crisp until all the rubber turned to ashes and the only things left are the beheaded stud stuck to the inner metal core of the mount and the bottom nut and the outer core stuck to the flywheel housing. I should then be able to lift the engine over the studs (once the drive is out, that is) and then put a pipe wrench to the whole thing and unscrew it from the bottom nut, which now should be easier because now I can get to it and soak the whole thing in PB blaster. Maybe it will work maybe it won't. Will see!

 

[Searay205]

If you get the outdrive off i would hope the motor would lift up over the studs. Holy hell can't be welded in there, maybe!! Outdrive is your enemy. Every time you trim up and down your input shaft to outdrive slides through the gimbal bearing. I assume that is why alignment is so critical. I like the idea of using the trim cylinders if still installed. get some jumper cables and supply power to them maybe they can push it off.

 

[Rivergator]

Every time you trim up and down your input shaft to outdrive slides through the gimbal bearing.

Hmmmm, if that's the case then I reckon the drive shaft is not stuck in gimbal bearing nor can it be stuck in coupler, because I have no problem moving the outdrive all the way up and/or down manually. If up and down movement makes it slide forth and back in the bearing it should do the same in the coupler. I am confused now. I thought that the pivot point of the outdrive matches the pivot point of the U-joints and therefore there is very little if no movement in the bearing and the coupler regardless of whether the outdrive is turned sideways or up and down.

 

[kenny nunez]

Re read #19 . Since the drive coupler is made from rubber it will flex as the drive swings L to R with the shaft bound in the female splines. I definitely feel you pain with this problem. I had a complete Marine shop fighting some of these type of problems on all the 3 drive platforms at one time or another in 30 + years.

 

[Searay205]

the input shaft is splined it moves back and forth when drive goes up and down. the defection does not take place in the coupler, if it did it would be very difficult since you would be deflecting the rubber bushing. we have up and down and side to side movement when turning.

 

[Searay205]

Do you live near Houston Texas? If so i want to help get this outdrive and engine out.

 

[Rivergator]

Do you live near Houston Texas? If so i want to help get this outdrive and engine out.

What a nice gesture, Searay205. I really appreciate it, but I live too far away, Mobile AL that is. Tomorrow I will do some more testing to see if I can see some motion in the coupler when moving the OD up and down and if I can get the steering arm disconnected I will do the same test sideways. I am retired now. I had a computer company from 1975 - 2008 and we had to deal with some real doozies, but I never walked away from a problem and in the end we solved it. And this stuck outdrive is no different. At the end of the week this problem will be solved too, especially with all the help I am getting here. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Rivergator]

Re read #19 . Since the drive coupler is made from rubber it will flex as the drive swings L to R with the shaft bound in the female splines. I definitely feel you pain with this problem. I had a complete Marine shop fighting some of these type of problems on all the 3 drive platforms at one time or another in 30 + years.

Hi Kenny, if all fails I will come and visit your shop. Kenner is only about 2 hours away from me.

 

[kenny nunez]

Is there any oil in the bilge or other flammables? If you do not have access to a cutting torch maybe someone you know of may know of a welding shop that will cut the shaft. After that you can take the boat home and either try to unbolt the flywheel housing or drill down around the rear of the housing to break the back off the area behind the mount area. If the top of both bolts are broken off you could just drill down through the rubber core of the mount which may break it loose enough to raise the engine. 504 427 6905 call me.

 

[Rivergator]

Hi Kenny, I appreciate it very much and I will call you when I reach the bitter end of my rope. I got a little sidetracked, something came up here at home, but tomorrow I will disconnect the steering arm so I can move the outdrive sideways to see if the coupler shows any kind of reaction. Yesterday with the help of another person I did this test up and down. The drive seems to move up and down freely when I pull it all the way up and down by hand. Other then the weight of the drive there seems to be no other difficulty or bind to overcome. While we were doing this I closely watched the coupler and I would say there was NO noticable movement whatsoever of the coupler. Not forth or back, up or down or sideways. Hmmmm, can we now assume that the drive shaft spline is moving freely in the coupler, the alignment is rather good and the outdrive might be stuck on the gimbal bearing or something else. But how much pull can the gimbal bearing withstand before it caves in? My ratchet treatment (post #20) was pretty severe. If I applied more pull I believe I would have pulled the whole trailer back.