Engine blew up today.

[infideltarget]

Re: Engine blew up today.

they used the windsor firing order. lift/duration was different from any factory 351w grind. they also changed the heads and went to a speed density FI setup.

I stand behind what I said about this 100%. The original H.O. set up was founded by taking a 351w marine cam straight off the shelf and putting it in a 302 block. Further development was necessary to bring it to market, but the grind was, and is, based on a marine 351w application. Check Ford history if you doubt it. I know very well what else was changed, as I have owned / restored more than 15 'Stangs from '67 to '93, and still own two Foxes. We can continue this in PMs or over at StangNet if you want.

There are plenty of automotive engines out there in boats running just fine right now. Are they optimal? Prolly not. Are they the ideal swap? Prolly not. Will they work and get you back on the water? You betcha'. Your budget and what performance / longevity you are willing to sacrifice will be the deciding factors.

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine blew up today.

The original poster has a Chevy 4.3, why are you suddenly talking about Ford V8's and their cam grinds. Has absolutely nothing to do with his 4.3L question.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: Engine blew up today.

The original poster has a Chevy 4.3, why are you suddenly talking about Ford V8's and their cam grinds. Has absolutely nothing to do with his 4.3L question.

THAT is why I said we could continue in a different arena.............
I am quite sure you saw my comparison in a previous post, so you actually could have answered your own question.

 

[mikel1291979]

Re: Engine blew up today.

I was just using pepboys as an example. I actually plan to get it from a place in dallas called city motor supply. I have bought engines from them before and was happy with what I had, although it was for a truck not a boat. These motors do come with warranty as well. I know putting it in a boat will probably void this warranty, but if it busts I have to take it out of the boat and bring it to them anyway so it will be hard for them to tell it was on a boat. This is what I am thinking about so far...
City motor lists an 87-91 4.3 long block with warranty. Comes with roller tappets and a knock sensor FI. Im not sure what a knock sensor is, but my boat is carbed not fuel injected so I dont know if I need to worry about that. The long block sells for $615 with no lifters.
Found a marine camshaft kit with lifters for $185. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL12-238-2/
Only problem is it says for years 75 to 76. The block I am getting is an 87 - 91. Is this a no go, or is it not important?
New marine head gaskets for $39.
New brass freeze plugs for $12.
Using my current carb, intake, exhaust manifolds, risers, oil pan and all the other bolt ons.
If this setup works it will cost me $851 in parts. The cheapest marine 4.3 I have found is $1450 shipped. Thats a difference of $599.
What do you guys think of this kit?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Chevy, Small Block, Kit

Ayuh,... That cam is several inches to long to fit in a 4.3l...

 

[mikel1291979]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Anyone know where I can find the proper cam and lifters?

 

[sasto]

Re: Engine blew up today.

.
If this setup works it will cost me $851 in parts. The cheapest marine 4.3 I have found is $1450 shipped. Thats a difference of $599.
What do you guys think of this kit?

Saving money is a good thing, mikel.....but I would spend the $599. You will be saving money in the long haul. Personally I wouldn't even consider anything else other than the marine engine.... Period!

Good Luck!

 

[EMC 1810SS]

Re: Engine blew up today.

A few things:

1. The cam you linked will work in a 4.3 V-8 not a V-6. YOu need a MARINE roller cam. The Mercruiser grind is pretty damn good. Automotive cams may be close, but the opening and closeing rates, lobe seperation, Intake center line, exaust closing point and durations are all specificly designed for marine use to provide the proper power band AND prevent reversion/water ingestion. If you are spending this much money, the cam is the LAST place to skimp. I would use cheaper crank and pistons before cheaping out on the cam.

2. Unless something actually came apart in the motor, I would not hesitate at all to re use the Cam, and with a good cleaning, I would probably re use the lifters to. Even so, lifters are only 6-8 bucks each so your not saveing much there. Of course this only applies if it is a roller tappet cam. If it is flat tappet that goes out the window. I would do what ever I could to avoid a flat tappet cam.

3. You need to get your casting number off the back of the block. Try to use the same casting number for the new engine. Chevy really changed alot of seemingly minor details on these blocks, but it will give you absolute FITS if you are trying to reuse items off your old block. Some years even had two differnt timing covers for the exact same year.

I dont know where people are coming up with the whole "wiping the lobes" on the cam from running it flat tappet. pretty much all engine whether marine/auto were flat tappet before 1982.

An exsiting engine that has been taken care of and oil gets changed regularly, you are pretty much correct. The accelerated cam wear is not noticeable. I bet that if you measured it, it is definetly faster though. Trying to break in a NEW flat tappet cam? You are throwing the dice. If you look at any of the major cam grinders out there, and look at their recomended break in for a new cam, Roller cam, put a little assemble lube on the lifter face, the pushrod pocket, and the cam face. Fire it up and go have fun. Look at the instructions for a Flat tappet? Its an entire PAGE, WITH specific required cam break in lubes, oil additives, no load rpm ranges etc. If you get ANY of these things wrong and it wipes a lobe, you are S.O.L. They MIGHT be nice and send you a new cam, but that new crank, bearings, rings, hone job etc from a ounce of metal shaveings running thru the block. Nope, thats on you.

I think I have a photo of a standard RV cam that went bad in the first 10 min. The only thing that went wrong, he could not keep it running due to a bad fuel line, According to a MAJOR cam supplier, "Due to the inital stalling, the cam lube was effectively wiped off before the engine was actually run, therefore _______ is not responsible for the failure". Didnt run more than 20 min. Ruined the cam, the lifters, 2 lifter bores, Piston bores, rings, rod and main bearings, and the crank needed ground and polished.

 

[EMC 1810SS]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Anyone know where I can find the proper cam and lifters?

Quick search and I came up with this one there are several more.....

 

[EMC 1810SS]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Photos of a cam run about 20 min

 

[mikel1291979]

Re: Engine blew up today.

So to add another wrinkle into this I was offered $1500 for the boat today. As it sits with the blown motor. I paid a grand total of $900 for the boat. Guy who sold it to me knew there was a good chance the blocked was cracked and didn't want to mess with it and choose to sell it fast and cheap. Its an 89 Baja Islander 190 sitting on an eagle single axle trailer.
Would be cool to make a quick profit, but I haven't seen a single other boat I like as much without getting into the 10 grand price tag of used boats. I love the lines on this boat. I am financially able to put in a new motor, marine or auto, Im just a cheap bastard. Tell me what you guys think. A few pics...

 

[infideltarget]

Re: Engine blew up today.

1 - vote for "keep and fix properly"

 

[EMC 1810SS]

Re: Engine blew up today.

2 votes! That looks like it is in VERY good shape. Even if you put 2 grand in a new motor, you would still be way ahead. You also will not find anything close to that good of shape for what you will have in it.

 

[Nehalennia]

Re: Engine blew up today.

I agree the condition by the pics looks like she's worth some effort.
Have a look at
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/vortec-marine-engine-1996current-p-186.html
They are marine engine builders and have a good reputation.

 

[gozierdt]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Third vote for keeping it!! As long as you've thunked around the floors and know there aren't any soft
spots. But the upholstery, rugs, and gelcoat look so good, it looks like the boat spent most of it's time
indoors. It'll be a really nice rig with the new engine...

 

[mikel1291979]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Third vote for keeping it!! As long as you've thunked around the floors and know there aren't any soft
spots. But the upholstery, rugs, and gelcoat look so good, it looks like the boat spent most of it's time
indoors. It'll be a really nice rig with the new engine...

Floor is 100% solid. Have checked everywhere and there isn't a single soft spot to be found. Also came with a new bimini top, heavy duty canvas boat cover and 3 extra props. 4 props total. 1 of them looks nicked up pretty good but looks better than the prop on my last boat. All of them are SS. 2 of the props are 4 blade, 1 being 17p and 19p. Other 2 are 3 blade, 1 is 19p the other looks like 21p. Friend of mine said he spent more on props than you paid for the whole boat. Don't know if its true or not.

 

[1ruralmailman]

Re: Engine blew up today.

DEFINITLY fixer and keep her.looks way to good shape to throw in the towel on.think this way too if you can get 1300 for it now,put 1500 in a good marine motor in it you could probably get what 6500 for it if you want to move it with an advertised new motor in it.my humble though fix it and have fun this summer

 

[mikel1291979]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Fook it. I have decided to go with the marine long block. Found a place in Miami that has the 4.3 for $1250 plus $200 to ship. Includes new oil pump and all gaskets I need to install the motor. Warranty is 24 months and they will even honor it if I screw up the installation and install it backwards and upside down. Sadly there is a decent chance I will do just that...

Anyone ever heard of or done business with A&L Engines? http://alengine.com/mareng.html

 

[utbasketballloft]

Re: Engine blew up today.

Do me a favor and PLEASE let me know how your experience with this company goes. I most likely will be having to purchase a 4.3 as well and this is where I am leaning towards purchasing one from. There warranty is good, and it just seems less sketchy than the other places I have seen. I looked at rapido marine and called them but the guy I talked to just sounded like an idiot and it gave me a ba feeling so please let menknow how this goes for you.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Engine blew up today.

I must say folks are down on automotive engines. :facepalm:I dropped a 1996 gmc truck engine in my Baylinner two years ago. Pulls skiers fine and tubes with ease. As far as the numbers go same block, crank, heads, and pistons. Cams did have a different casting number. I just used the truck cam. I could not be happier. 200 dollar engine with 50 hours boating no smoke and stays full of oil. I did use the automotive gaskets from northern to put it back together. This is a fresh water boat with steel freeze plugs just like the ones in the original block. Starters carburetors and ignition should stay marine after that use what you want. Lot of guys overpricing engines just by saying it goes in a boat.