Electric Boats

[Bob Sander]

* On the subject some of you were discussing about the efficiency of recharging off the grid I want to repeat the electric part of this boat will be solar powered from used panels I already own.

I don't know if you are operating in moving water, but a river generator may be worth looking into. There are several on the market both big and small, and they are not that hard to back-yard construct either.
A small wind generator might be good too for when you are moving.

Interesting project you have going there anyway. I just wanted to drop in a tag it so I can follow.

 

[Jim Hawkins]

I don't know if you are operating in moving water, but a river generator may be worth looking into. There are several on the market both big and small, and they are not that hard to back-yard construct either.
A small wind generator might be good too for when you are moving.

Thanks Bob but there's no free energy. If the boat is moving under it's own power then the power the generators produce would be less than the power that the drag they produce consumes. Solar power is far, far more efficient than wind or hydro (at least for this purpose) and here in the Florida keys I have beaucoup sun.

Hey! That reminds me of a cool experiment. A magnet has no effect on aluminum, right? Well then, take a strong magnet and drag it quickly across the surface of an aluminum cookie sheet. Feel the drag? A lot more than if it were wood or something else against the aluminum. Thats because the magnet creates electrical eddy currents in the aluminum that create a magnetic field, pulling back against the magnet and slowing it down. Did you know that turning off the radio in your car saves fuel? (albeit tiny) When your alternator has to produce current to power electrical devices it creates a drag on the engine the same as the drag of sliding a magnet across aluminum.

 

[Bob Sander]

Thanks Bob but there's no free energy. If the boat is moving under it's own power then the power the generators produce would be less than the power that the drag they produce consumes. Solar power is far, far more efficient than wind or hydro (at least for this purpose) and here in the Florida keys I have beaucoup sun.

Hey! That reminds me of a cool experiment. A magnet has no effect on aluminum, right? Well then, take a strong magnet and drag it quickly across the surface of an aluminum cookie sheet. Feel the drag? A lot more than if it were wood or something else against the aluminum. Thats because the magnet creates electrical eddy currents in the aluminum that create a magnetic field, pulling back against the magnet and slowing it down. Did you know that turning off the radio in your car saves fuel? (albeit tiny) When your alternator has to produce current to power electrical devices it creates a drag on the engine the same as the drag of sliding a magnet across aluminum.

Sorry, I didn't mean using a river generator when you are moving. That would indeed present a tremendous amount of drag. I meant when anchored.... which is why I mentioned the moving water. If you have moving water around, then that can easily be converted to electricity. The wind generator would of course create a bit of drag but not that much.

Yes, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. If there was then long ago we would have placed an electric motor on a car and a generator on the wheel, and called it a day!

 

[Grub54891]

A magnet has no effect on aluminum, right?
I did the same thing with a copper pipe. Took a magnet, drop it through the pipe, The magnet drops through but rather slowly. It produces an electric field that slows the magnet.

 

[Jim Hawkins]

So, having rotated my work through several other projects, I'm back on my electric motor. As I said earlier, this project is all about the mounting bracket that aligns the motor with the driveshaft. I realized I was wasting time trying to work around the bottom cowling just so I could re-use the original top cowling, so I took it off and mounted new 2x2 angles to the engine midsection.

That gave me a good, solid, uncluttered base to begin with. I'll add 3/16 plate to the sides and then on top another 3/16 plate with a hole for the drive shaft. Temporarily I used two light pieces of 1x4 angle. In the video you see the motor running on 24 volts and also a piece of plastic tube wedged diagonally to stop vibration.
View attachment Video_20220213_133420.mp4
Below is the same boat I used to test the motor the first time. I wasn't thinking and put the short shaft motor on a 20" transom. I fixed that by adding an adjustable kicker bracket to the transom.
If the weathers good, I'll test next weekend.

 

[harringtondav]

Thanks Bob but there's no free energy.

Very true. I read a FB EV post where someone mentioned hooking up a vehicle wheel driven alternator to extend the EV's battery range. Not only counterproductive, but it would take one hell of an inverter to deliver 400-800 VDC.

 

[racerone]

Most vehicles do generate now ( via braking ) to help maintain battery charge.-----But yes there are many wild theories from those who were asleep in physics classes.-----And if you look it up , in 86 they did an experiment in Russia on how to generate power while a machine was slowing down.

 

[harringtondav]

I came across this recently. Electric pontoon. Some of their claims seem a bit iffy, but I could see it at the 300 acre lake where three of my sisters in law have cabins and pontoons. They mostly troll around the lake on cocktail cruise shore patrol. Each have 110 V shore power to top it off.

Electric Pontoon Boat

Developed in collaboration with General Motors, this all electric pontoon boat offers clean, quiet operation and all day range. $100 deposit secures your order. Learn more and join the revolution.

www.purewatercraft.com

 

[racerone]

They say that in many gated communities the old folks use electric golf carts.-----You need a 6 pack on board.-----This is so that when your batteries run down you can ask a new friend to plug in for 1/2 hr while you share stories of your grand kids.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I came across this recently. Electric pontoon. Some of their claims seem a bit iffy, but I could see it at the 300 acre lake where three of my sisters in law have cabins and pontoons. They mostly troll around the lake on cocktail cruise shore patrol. Each have 110 V shore power to top it off.

Electric Pontoon Boat

Developed in collaboration with General Motors, this all electric pontoon boat offers clean, quiet operation and all day range. $100 deposit secures your order. Learn more and join the revolution.

www.purewatercraft.com

there are many electric boats that have a 6-10 knot max speed and will tool along for coctail cruises on a charge. however as you mentioned. would have to live on a lake. my situation with the river and the ICW, its not an option.

 

[harringtondav]

I saw this in a Face Book ad. I publicly snarked at some of their claims. First was their 'sealed, maintenance free out drive'. You all know my objection with that. Maintenance free anything on a boat is an oxymoron. Second was their claims of power and range. Like EV ads, these guys fail to mention that you can use lots of power, or enjoy decent range. But not both.
A company principal got back me. He said the electric drive motor is submerged in the prop torpedo housing using a planetary reduction to drive the prop. Now what could go wrong with that 'maintenance free' system?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Now what could go wrong with that 'maintenance free' system?

It fails.....and you replace the whole assembly

 

[Jim Hawkins]

I came across this recently. Electric pontoon. Some of their claims seem a bit iffy, but I could see it at the 300 acre lake where three of my sisters in law have cabins and pontoons. They mostly troll around the lake on cocktail cruise shore patrol. Each have 110 V shore power to top it off.

Electric Pontoon Boat

Developed in collaboration with General Motors, this all electric pontoon boat offers clean, quiet operation and all day range. $100 deposit secures your order. Learn more and join the revolution.

www.purewatercraft.com

I don't doubt that boats claim of 20+ mph but what gets me is they have an opportunity to extend range by adding a hardtop that is solar pv panels. If you park the boat when you go to use it in a few days it has recharged itself, when you cruise 35 minutes out to the sand bar and then socialize for a couple hours you may have actually topped the batteries back off. Any way that's my plan. I think an electric boat without it's own solar recharging seems frivolous.

 

[racerone]

So for a 5 kilowatt system how big ( surface area ) would the panels be.---A 2 kilowatt system would be how big ?

 

[Jim Hawkins]

So for a 5 kilowatt system how big ( surface area ) would the panels be.---A 2 kilowatt system would be how big ?

I think with today's far more efficient panels you could probably get in the neighborhood of 2 kilowatts with a 8 x 12 roof but the main point I'm trying to make is any solar you add extends your range.

 

[harringtondav]

I don't doubt that boats claim of 20+ mph but what gets me is they have an opportunity to extend range by adding a hardtop that is solar pv panels.

This electric pontoon has two power options: 24V with two 12 V deep cycle marine batteries in series, or 48V with four batteries in series/parallel.

Your 2 kW system above will certainly help, but with the amp requirements above I wonder how much (?).

 

[racerone]

This stuff can all be calculated.------The big variable for solar is the amount of sunlight.----The big variable with windmills is the changing nature of the wind.----Been in the control room where the system was asking for a 50 megawatt reduction in power as folks went to sleep.---Grid was going to 60.5 Hertz I think.------It is chaos to the system when the wind suddenly picks up at 2 AM and nobody needs the power.----Grid wants to stay constant at 60 Hertz.

 

[harringtondav]

It is chaos to the system when the wind suddenly picks up at 2 AM and nobody needs the power.----Grid wants to stay constant at 60 Hertz.

Good learning for me. Iowa electrical use is over 30% wind sourced, and the turbines continue to pop up.
But I've never really understood 'the grid'. I've always assumed it is interconnected and covers all of North America, and could absorb power from any source, and deliver it to any user. I figured it is so large it has an insatiable appetite. ....apparently not true (?).

 

[racerone]

The grid runs at 60 hertz ( cycles / second ) and when too much power is drained off it slows down.-----Too much power going in , it speeds up.-----Green power is politically correct.----Green power does come cheap.-------I read that in many countries they are planning more dams to generate power for electric cars.-------I say to some folks ---" In a hundred years do your kids need cheap electricity , or fish to eat "-----Each dam , little by little disrupts the way the world was made.

 

[Jim Hawkins]

You guys.......
There won't be any wind turbines on this boat nor any hertz changes. There won't be any dams either however there may be a few "damn's" as I tweak things. Just a simple little solar powered boat with some battery backup.