Dear Liberal American,

[BassCat73]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Ahh, now that post gets right to the heart of what you're trying to say Alden. Nice job. "The ever widening rift in America will only be closed by regular folks, not the polititians." That is very true. I think if more people would use an objective thought process and just form their own opinions, we'd be a little closer on that rift. Unfortunately, I think too many people stick to their guns, i.e. their political party to help them form their opinion. With that thinking, the rift will never get smaller.

 

[DJ]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

rolmops,<br /><br />You forgot to include me-I'm hurt. <br /><br />

I suspect they have it mixed up with communism)and the democratic ideas have anything in common.<br />

Ah yes, indeed. Dem's want equality. Not UPWARD equality-downward equality. The lowest common denominator. Union "solidarity" no matter what. Just send the dues. <br /><br />They (dem's) perceive "equality" as the equal distribution of squalor and misery. Why? Because their power base is dependent on it. Why can't "Air America" stay afloat without DNC help? Why? NOBODY LISTENS. We already have PBS.<br /><br />

Ah, it must be the money that social services wastes in the inner cities.

That would be a start. I even hand it to President Clinton for his efforts, weak as they were, with a fight, to NOT get it done, from him. He was out on a limb with his liberal friends.<br /><br />

Never mind the billions in farm subsidies that keep rural america rolling.<br />

You found a "hot" button. I agree. Both parties are guilty, especially the dem's. Just ask Tom Daeschle. Even the liberal Sioux Falls folks and receiving farmers booted his lieing/cheating butt.<br />BTW, he and his wife are the two most powerful lobbyists in DC.<br /><br />

That of course is good, because these are good republicans that are on the dole.<br />

And which "dole" would that be? <br /><br />Don't give me the old "CORPERATE AMERICA LINE." It's old, tired and isn't true. Corp. America has been under attack since the sixties. Just ask Bill Gates. Sorry Hillary.<br />The "sixties" "could nots" ran to the schools where they overran the system. "Another degree, another raise". Or, if you're really a loser, will give you a Masters degree and make you an "administator", at $120K/year for doing-NOTHING.<br /><br />The top ten richest politicians, in Washington, are Democrats. (look it up) <br /><br />How can that be???? The so called "fighters for the regular guy". Talk about being DUPED.<br /><br />I feel today, that this nation is at a standstill and is evenly divided.<br /><br />Liberal dem's want.<br /><br />1. Abortion on demand. No parental consent-NOTHING-standing in the way. KILL IT! "I want convenience at every stand and the government/neighbor to pay for it".<br /><br />2. Free everything for everybody.<br /><br />Conservatives-Rep's want.<br /><br />1. The ability for every American to fulfill the American Dream, without some beaurocrat standing in the way. <br /><br />Bring us (rep's) "legal" aliens and we'll teach/mentor them how to be succesful Americans.<br /><br />Dem's see "Illegals" as VOTE and NOTHING else.<br /><br />2. The stop of unbridled "murder"/abortion, for the sake of "convenience". We'll raise our own children-Thank You for the offer.<br /><br />There are thousands of wonderful parents looking for an adoptive child. No go. We prefer to kill them.<br /><br />Call me a dinosaur, or whatever. I remember a time when I could ride by bike without fear of some pervert ending my life, after torture.<br /><br />The "sexual revolution" ended all of that. The US society is so overwhelmed with sex that it's no wonder the perverts are coming out of the woodwork. The Democratic party seems to embrace and foster that activity. I don't see any ACLU members defending conservatives.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Originally posted by BassCat73:<br /> Here's to being one country, one nation, under God, indivisible...

Herein lies the falacy in your hopes Basscat. The libs want to kick any influence of Godly tenants out of this society and government. <br /><br />If they are allowed to remain, we would have to live with a concept of right or wrong, a prohibition on wholesale abortion or the reining in of homosexual behavior parity. And the libs can have none of these.

 

[DJ]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Boomyal wrote:<br /><br />

Herein lies the falacy in your hopes Basscat. The libs want to kick any influence of Godly tenant out of this society and government.

Agreed that is the method, BUT, I never UNDERESTIMATE THE CREATOR.<br /><br />And, the CREATOR is NOT Hillary/Biden/Kennedy, et al.

 

[BassCat73]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

And again, most are letting their politcal views get in the way of the original message Alden was trying to get across...<br /><br />P.S. Those are not just my hopes Boomyal

 

[rolmops]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Hello DJ.<br />Your very post clearly explains why I did not include you.(sorry)<br />You neither screamed nor did you dig up dead old politicians in order to call attention away from the subject under discussion.<br />You are mistaken to claim the right to life movement as a republican or democratic political property.This hot subject clearly crosses party lines,just ask your catholic friends.<br />Your statements about the richest politicians proves very clearly that democrats are not socialists or communists.They are just as capitalistic as you and me.<br />The immigrant vote is as much chased after by the republicans as it is by the democrats.Florida is a prime example.All you have to do to become a legal resident is to be Cuban and not only does that make you a potential American,it also makes you a spanish speaking non assimilating american who will vote for anyone who pays lipservice to anti Castro activists.<br />What dole would that be??<br />Many parts of the population poor "red states" have great polical power because of their swing vote potential.They get very handsomely pandered to and rewarded after elections.Pork barrel is a way of life in those states.<br />Do republicans give new immigrants a fair shot at the American dream?<br />Give me a break.Republicans and conservatives and yes,most democrats are so caught up in this rat race that they are only concerned with their own American dream.And all of us take advantage of the weaker ones.<br />Sexual revolution,is that what caused the perverts and sexual maniacs to come out of the wood work?<br />Europe is a lot freer in its attitude toward sex and there are far fewer cases of sexually provoked murder.I think rape and *edophile behaviour is the same,although the European version is less murderously violent.For some inexplicable reason,America is just more extreme in its violence.<br />Lots of registered democrats have adopted babies and continue to do so.<br />Dinosaurs are my favorite extinct animal.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

By rolmops<br />

Sexual revolution,is that what caused the perverts and sexual maniacs to come out of the wood work?<br />

Nope it was the democrat/liberals who shamed the mothers out of the home and at the same time fostered a no fault, victimization, anything goes permissive society, all in the face of virtually parentless children. Oh did I forget to mention the removal of any semblance of a moray profered from on high?<br /><br />I'd think you Progressives would be a little sharper at connecting the dots. Oh I see. Only if they take you where you want to go and they don't.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

BassCat, well observed. <br /><br />Maybe the tone of peoples replies to the original post could be viewed as a type of Rorschach Test to identify idealogues and those from the extreme edges of either side.<br /><br />Hopefully there is a majority within both parties that are a bit more moderate and still able to view and discuss issues with some degree of objectivity. That's the only way this divide will ever be bridged.

 

[Triton II]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

I think Tom Lehrer summed this thread up in the 60s:<br /><br />Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,<br />And the black folks hate the white folks.<br />To hate all but the right folks<br />Is an old established rule.<br /><br />But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,<br />Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.<br />It's fun to eulogize<br />The people you despise,<br />As long as you don't let 'em in your school.<br /><br />Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,<br />And the rich folks hate the poor folks.<br />All of my folks hate all of your folks,<br />It's American as apple pie.<br /><br />But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,<br />New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.<br />Step up and shake the hand<br />Of someone you can't stand.<br />You can tolerate him if you try.<br /><br />Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,<br />And the Catholics hate the Protestants,<br />And the Hindus hate the Moslems,<br />And everybody hates the Jews.<br /><br />But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,<br />It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.<br />Be nice to people who<br />Are inferior to you.<br />It's only for a week, so have no fear.<br />Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Originally posted by LakeLivin:<br />Hopefully there is a majority within both parties that are a bit more moderate and still able to view and discuss issues with some degree of objectivity. That's the only way this divide will ever be bridged.

You've fallen into the trap LakeLivin. What is being called the extreme right today was not much different from the party of John F Kennedy. And for the most part America has not moved as far left as the Democrat party has. That's why they keep losing elections and that's why they keep turning the volume up on all of the prevarications and distortions.<br /><br />I don't know how old you are but I suspect that you have not read much of what is available that would highlight the techniques that the left is using today to vilify the opposition.<br /><br />Suffice it to say that Conservatism today is not extreme. It is only being labled so by the PROGRESSIVES.<br /><br />To suggest that the conservatives should meet the liberals half way would give them a great victory. They can't get it at the polls, they can only get it in the judiciary. You know, those elitists that are so much smarter than the voting public. ( Yeah, Yeah, I know, there are a few times in history where they were right. But please note, they were right in a Constitutional sense.) <br /><br />Tomorrow they would be demanding the other half.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

I don't hate democrats and I don't hate liberals. Some of my friends are dems and libs. What I hate is stupidity and deception. This is an area usually reserved for politicians. Recently it has been reserved primarily by democrats. People like Hillary who really and truely believes the vast right conspiracy made her husband cheat and lie to the country. And those rose law firm billing records were under her bed - for three years. Please don't defend or justify this it would just be stupid. How about Teddy boy doing a 180 on how to question a supreme court nominee. It is morally dishonest, and repugnant to anyone with a moral compass. The court is suppose to be immune from politics but the dems have turned it into their own little wing of government with all the legislation from the bench. Puke.<br /><br />We can now put people in prison for what we think is in their heart. God on the bench. sick. History will look upon abortion the same way we look upon slavery today. A society is judged by how we treat the weakest among us. We are incredibly selfish. And the zeal to protect this murderous act is formost in the minds of politicians as we look to nominate the next justice. Revolting.<br /><br />We need to keep religion out of government but we examine Roberts worship practices and the dems attempt to hold it against him. No double standard. I don't remember any jewish scruitingy for Ginsburg. But the dems like her.<br /><br />I am so sorry for democrats because their platform requires millions of the unborn to die to keep themselves in office. This is their major concern in confirming a supreme court justice. Good gravy. Sorry guys looks like Renquist won't make it through Bush's term. Send up Judge Judy.<br /><br />They are the party of revisionist history. Like the success of the welfare after four generations. Jimmy Carter was a great president. Robert Byrd was just young and confused when at age 38 he became a grand wizard of the KKK - he is a great man now. It is all about money and power and both parties have nothing to brag about. The Republicans are at least more consistant than dems. Not a whole lot but the leadership of the dems is at an all time low. Howard Dean?<br /><br />I think liberals have the best of all at heart except they forget and I believe the don't understand that power corrupts. They think the likes of Hillary, Teddy, Nancy, Barbara, are great people. They are not, they are **********s to their beliefs for personal and party gain..<br /><br />Just a thought, why not agree with the president that Iraq was a threat and we needed to do what we did. It doesn't make you weaker to agree with the opposition party when they are right.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Gee Rolmpos, why did Hillary depend so heavily on the Jewish vote to get elected? I won't say anything more on that subject because it would be non-PC and wouldn't objectify my love for Israel. <br /><br />Liberals, they can't even call them selves liberal. Try to identify them and you're "Labeling" them. Ooohhhhh....waaaahhhhh....cry little girls. Kierkegaard was high when he said "if you label me you negate me." Labeling is how we as humans with complex languages identify things. So if you are liberal, what sub category of liberal are you? Are you Marxist? Are you socialist? Are Communist? Are you Trotskyist? Liberals want to destroy labels because they must. They have a target label that MUST destroy. What is that you ask? The labels "Good" and "Bad." Because they know that according to a bunch of old archaic documents called the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, what they stand for today is "BAD." Bad for you, bad for me, bad for America, but great for them. So they must eliminate ALL labels in order to get to these two, begining with the "labels" that identify them and what they stand for. And they have a bunch of brain washed ignorant, intellectually dishonest, uneducated zombies running around leveling all kinds of nutty accusations about Halliburton and screaming and whining like little girls about "labels."<br /><br />Why don't all you flaming liberal nuts just put your hands out....the government will be there to put something in it, and shut the hell up. Tell your murdering, drunken senators from Massachusetts and other places to stop stonewalling the President, because he is an ignorant RINO (Republican In Name Only); and let's get on with the show. You had it your way for 40 freaking years; now lets just see what kind of horsepower the liberal, socialist, Marxist, communist wackos have at the polls, and what repubs, whether RINO or not, can do with this great country that Democrats have brought to it's knees.<br /><br />Oh, and about bringing up dead politicians, if not for FDR, Alger Hiss, Truman and the remnant's of FDR's KGB, and the Rosenburgs; there may have never been a cold war. Sheesh, can you guys learn some gal dang history instead of coming here and lieing by saying "give me cold hard facts" when you don't listen, it doesn't matter to your superior, enlightened mind, and facts have never meant anything to you or you would be a freaking conservative anyway. Try paying taxes as a self employed person once and you would say "screw libs, dems, repubs, all pollutions, but libs first and most often!!!!!"

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Oh, and BTW, Rolmops, PW, Brbscott, et. al, I would love for any and all of you to come down here to Milton Fl and I will put you up in the Ashbury, and we can fish everyday and get along smashingly. I hope you could feel the same.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Originally posted by SoulWinner:<br /> I hope you could feel the same.

They would SoulWinner, as long as you were willing to meet them halfway. In otherwords, compromise. Give them the half they want now and half of the rest when you feel pressured into another compromising mood.

 

[PW2]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Why do the right wingers always want to talk vague philosophies, and bless us with their vision of the philosophy of the opposition, as opposed to discussing specific policies?<br /><br />I stopped the other day to have a beer with a friend from Ohio who is on his annual 3 week vacation at his property on a lake in Northern Ontario.<br /><br />He has always been a Republican, and was an avid supporter of Bush.<br /><br />He is currently questioning and regretting his vote, especially in light of recent events affecting his fellow Ohio citizens...<br /><br />There is hope out there, Rolmops!

 

[txswinner]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Who are some of these liberals of America past: (Not Dems or Reps just those with liberal ideas)<br />George Washington, Paul Revere, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, all the signers of the Dec. of Ind., Gosh guess with could throw ole Abe Lincoln, super liberal interrpeter all men equal means slaves also, 3 term Roosevelt, and on and on. Not bad company, but it is different now, no not really.

 

[KRS]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

This is going well....

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

txwinner,<br /><br />What is liberal about taxation without representation? (cough, cough, goretax) The constitution is clearly based in judeo/christian philosophy. They didn't see fit to put in a separation of church and state clause. That is a liberal interpretation, not the intended one. None of the people you identified were liberal, they were were considered radical for the time.<br /><br />I don't remember old Abe asking for affirmative action programs (liberal), set aside programs (liberal), all men are created equal is a conservative mentality.

 

[eeboater]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Originally posted by txswinner:<br />Gosh guess with could throw ole Abe Lincoln, super liberal interrpeter all men equal means slaves

Abe Lincoln was the father of the American Republican Party. Don't you dare categorize him as a lib.<br /><br />Sean

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Dear Liberal American,

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br />

Originally posted by LakeLivin:<br />Hopefully there is a majority within both parties that are a bit more moderate and still able to view and discuss issues with some degree of objectivity. That's the only way this divide will ever be bridged.

You've fallen into the trap LakeLivin. What is being called the extreme right today was not much different from the party of John F Kennedy. And for the most part America has not moved as far left as the Democrat party has. That's why they keep losing elections and that's why they keep turning the volume up on all of the prevarications and distortions.<br /><br />I don't know how old you are but I suspect that you have not read much of what is available that would highlight the techniques that the left is using today to vilify the opposition.<br /><br />Suffice it to say that Conservatism today is not extreme. It is only being labled so by the PROGRESSIVES.<br /><br />To suggest that the conservatives should meet the liberals half way would give them a great victory. They can't get it at the polls, they can only get it in the judiciary. You know, those elitists that are so much smarter than the voting public. ( Yeah, Yeah, I know, there are a few times in history where they were right. But please note, they were right in a Constitutional sense.) <br /><br />Tomorrow they would be demanding the other half.

Boomyal,<br /><br />I'm a registered independent and try to take what makes best sense to me from either party. I haven't read much from authors pushing one position or the other, but know there's enough out there from both sides that one can find a ****load of material to back up one's position, whatever it is. One only needs to draw from the authors' that agree with your position, and ignore the ones who don't. <br /><br />I'm old (and smart) enough to recognize that there are a number of 'pundits' that use idealogy as a means to further their own ends, 'political pundit ****titutes' (my take & term), who are readily willing to ignore logic and any sense of objectivity in order to feed extremists what they crave. There is much $$ and fame to be had if one can do this well enough, and too many taking advantage of it for my tastes.<br /><br />I would suggest that in part of your argument you are 'begging the question' ("Suffice it to say that Conservatism today is not extreme. It is only being labled so by the PROGRESSIVES"). While I don't disagree with you regarding relative values w.r.t. JFK's era, I don't know what that means in the big scheme of things. JFK was 40 years ago; society and it's values do change over time. Where do you draw the line and say "This Is The Way It Should Be" for the rest of all time? Following that same logic, we could have fixed the "standard" at a time when segregation was the accepted norm, or abolition, or when women did not have the right to vote. <br /><br />And when you mentioned "highlight the techniques that the left is using today to vilify the opposition", I almost had to laugh. I'd suggest that the Bush/Rove team have probably used this tactic more successfully than any major politicians in recent history. Forget the Wilson/ Plame case for now, let's wait for the complete story to come out before judging that one. But do you really believe that the 'Swift Boat Vets..." campaign had no link, help, or encouragement from the Bush administration? For arguments sake, let's say no. What about the push polling the Bush campaign used on John McCain in South Carolina in the 2000 primaries? Talk about "techniques used to vilify the opposition"! <br /><br />Finally, I'm also old enough to recognize that people are "wired differently", i.e., they have different personality types, experiences, values, thinking styles, etc. Because of this, it will always be the case that there are times when given the same input, people will process it differently and arrive at different conclusions. And the solution to resolving those different interpretations isn't just to meet the other half way (a thought you attributed to me that I never stated). It's to communicate with enough respect and objectivity to get an understanding of what the real underlying interests of both parties are. And then having enough respect and objectivity to work on ways to maximize meeting those underlying interests. Which may more often than not may be different than meeting 'half way'.<br /><br />An example, since I'm getting philosophical to the point I'm having trouble following my own thought train:<br /><br />Two sisters are having a fight over who gets the last orange in the refrigerator. The mom steps in to settle the dispute. She cuts it in two and gives each girl half. One sister eats her half of the orange and throws away the peel. The other sister peels her half, uses the peel for a cake recipe shes making, and throws away the fruit. <br /><br />Had the sisters shown respect towards each other and discussed the situation with objectivity instead of fighting over the orange, they both would have ended up in a better position. <br /><br />Simplistic, yes, but I think it comes closer to highlighting the OPs intent than a breakdown into a 'Liberal' vs. 'Conservative' debate does. <br /><br />The people I really don't trust are those who don't recognize & respect the fact that others are wired differently and have different perspectives, some of which they might even view as valid if they understood them. Because those people too often see the world as either black or white, and in my experience most of it is much more complex than that.<br /><br />Anyways, off my soapbox, spent too much time on this already. I need to put the outdrive back on my boat and here I am at the computer!