Dean's List gets another motor

[Bondo]

That's my shop

I think after 6 years I'm also going to get the little boat put back together also. Sure hope so

Ayuh,.... After 2, 3 years, last month I pulled out an ole Nova 230 I've got, unmothballed the 350, 'n slapped a drive on it,.....

Little sis, 'n kid were up from SC, 'n like to ski,....
I made it 'bout 20', 'n wacked bottom,....
I pulled Chris 3 or 4 times 'round the pond anyways,... it died tryin' to pull Brei up,....
Drifted to shore, 'n loaded out,.... prop, 'n lower unit are trash,....

Good thing I've got a couple of drives stashed,.... swapped on another, 'n hope to burn some of that expensive gas on a different lake tomorrow,....

Got my '63 CJ 5 sittin' back in the shop now,..... lookin' at a dash rewire,....

 

[alldodge]

The rest of the parts are back, but might not start to build until maybe a rainy day. Not in a hurry, plan is to get boat pulled up in Sept

 

[Scott Danforth]

make sure to check ring gap prior to assembling

 

[alldodge]

oh yes

 

[Rick Stephens]

make sure to check ring gap prior to assembling

Oh come on - where's your sense of adventure?

 

[alldodge]

Had another one of those late night thoughts and glad I checked. The block had a slight bit of rust on it, so I wondered if the differential bypass valves were removed when boiled out, and they were not.

Removed both and there was some crud on top and below them. Have been unable to find anyone around to do good work and be honest. When rebuilding my dozer motor, the machine shop did great work but also ripped me off with work he didn't do. This shop did what they said but not good work

 

[alldodge]

Plan was to wash and clean the block then start assembly. That didn't happen

Started to do ring gap check and noticed the honing was not crosshatched but was just circular. Placed ring in bores at different levels and found the smallest was 0.030 and largest was 0.034. With max for bottom at 0.024 so this isn't going to work

Called the machine shop and asked about the crosshatching and said he would have used his auto home but it would take to much off so he did it manually. WHAT, we did not comment, just listened. Then asked about the gap (he told us he checked the block and it was good) he said might need to bore to 0.040, good grief.

Were not going off the deep end because we have a set of piston and rings we need to send back that he bought. He agrees to bore and get new pistons. Ask if he is going to use a torque plate (oh most silence) , then says he doesn't have one for a BBC only SBC. Says he will borrow one. Block goes back to him on Monday maybe

If we weren't so much into this already I would dump him and go find another. The good thing is we know how it should be done so we can check

 

[Willyclay]

WOW!

 

[Rick Stephens]

Bob, dazzled by your finding these things. Other than the hone job, they aren't all that obvious without looking deeper. Machinist seems to make rookie mistakes, left and right. How hard is it to hone a bore by hand? My very first one, when I was sixteen, looked like a machine did it. About the simplest thing one can do.

Best of luck. Keep your hat screwed down tight, sounds like you're in for a ride.

 

[alldodge]

Cross hatch honing is about as easy as just staying put. Hone on drill at medium rpm and keep moving it up and down, don't stay in one place.

 

[tank1949]

I was bored and didn't want to do glass work, so decided to do motor work
View attachment 361855

My buddy Dean has a twin engine cruiser with V-drive 454 MPI's. The Port motor has been replaced twice, get that twice. Some years ago the previous owner had the motor replaced by Merc dealer with a Reman. Motor SN 91003823 and list .030 bored, and .020 mains and Rods.

View attachment 361854
Reason motor needed to be replaced 2nd time was it spun a rod bearing. Spun bearing is most always the crank was not turned correctly and has a taper in the journal. The rod bearing spun so have had the motor in my barn for a few years.

OK, starboard motor has been having trouble with power. We do the yearly checks and the the compression is lower. Notice that there are 2 different pistons installed by rebuilder. Other then the piston and crank, all looks ok. Going to press the 2 off and measure the weight of each to compare.

View attachment 361856


Going to boil the block the block out, and motor had only about 25 hours before the bearing spun (not used much).

I have replaced stock piston that looked slightly different but weighed the same. I suspect 2 4 allow for better oil slinging.

 

[Ed Yez]

Plan was to wash and clean the block then start assembly. That didn't happen

Started to do ring gap check and noticed the honing was not crosshatched but was just circular. Placed ring in bores at different levels and found the smallest was 0.030 and largest was 0.034. With max for bottom at 0.024 so this isn't going to work

Called the machine shop and asked about the crosshatching and said he would have used his auto home but it would take to much off so he did it manually. WHAT, we did not comment, just listened. Then asked about the gap (he told us he checked the block and it was good) he said might need to bore to 0.040, good grief.

Were not going off the deep end because we have a set of piston and rings we need to send back that he bought. He agrees to bore and get new pistons. Ask if he is going to use a torque plate (oh most silence) , then says he doesn't have one for a BBC only SBC. Says he will borrow one. Block goes back to him on Monday maybe

If we weren't so much into this already I would dump him and go find another. The good thing is we know how it should be done so we can check

Sounds like you might have to look over his shoulder to make sure he does it right. Do you trust that he'll actually borrow a plate?
It seems like everywhere you go, it's either super expensive or people do an 80% job. Sometimes both. This infuriates me, especially when just a little bit more care or effort would result in a substantially better result.

 

[alldodge]

Do you trust that he'll actually borrow a plate?

Not sure, he might even have another shop do it. If its not done with one, it should still be good enough so long as the machine and setup is correct. Either way it is what it is. If it comes back screwed up, we'll be look for another block or rebuild the one in the boat

 

[alldodge]

Just keeps getting better
Thought we were getting it bored .040 over, no we get a honed to about .040 over. That's not going to work before checking

Washed the block before starting, blew out all the ports and got more crud out. Used air to blow dry and spray WD40 in everything, and then blow out again.

Insert top compression ring in every cylinder and check at 1, 2 and 3 inch down. Gap is all over the place, got everything from .014 to .018 ring gap. The gap can start larger and go smaller to larger, then another starts within spec to flare out. Ring gap spec is .010 to .018

Have seen a slight bit of porosity in a few cylinders. Taking it back to be "actually" bored to 60 over. I don't like 60 but trying to see if it can actually be done before the block is trash

Water level is getting low in the lake and now may have to wait till spring to pull, don't know just more things to think about

 

[alldodge]

It's 60 over and ring gap is in spec. Had to bore one cylinder over 60 and install sleeve. Crank, rods, pistons installed

 

[Scott Danforth]

Surprised the Admiral let you play on Turkey day

 

[alldodge]

Did it yesterday after she left for her sister's in IN. No T day here and will meet her Saturday for T day

 

[stresspoint]

one of the reasons i use the machinist i use is not only the 20 odd years experience dealing with him ,it is that he takes the time out with all his customers to show them measurements of crucial areas like bores / ring gap ,crank journals etc before he will accept payment for his work.
i keep telling him that i trust that it is done correctly but he insists that i take the time to take a look before leaving with my parts. i suppose it is because he is proud of his workmanship.
he is looking at retiring in a few years so i will be in the same boat as you trying to find a suitable machinist to take care of my jobs.

not cleaning the block gallery's is just slack IMO.

60 thou is getting up there on a big block, there is not a lot of meat in some areas on some blocks , i hope you are not intending to put big loads on that motor , it will get hot.? raw water cooling or closed.

 

[alldodge]

It's going in a 37ft cruiser, closed cool

 

[Scott06]

one of the reasons i use the machinist i use is not only the 20 odd years experience dealing with him ,it is that he takes the time out with all his customers to show them measurements of crucial areas like bores / ring gap ,crank journals etc before he will accept payment for his work.
i keep telling him that i trust that it is done correctly but he insists that i take the time to take a look before leaving with my parts. i suppose it is because he is proud of his workmanship.
he is looking at retiring in a few years so i will be in the same boat as you trying to find a suitable machinist to take care of my jobs.

not cleaning the block gallery's is just slack IMO.

60 thou is getting up there on a big block, there is not a lot of meat in some areas on some blocks , i hope you are not intending to put big loads on that motor , it will get hot.? raw water cooling or closed.

To me that is the right way of doing it, there can be no question down the road what it was machined to And the customer is accepting these measurements/tolerances. He probably learned it the hard way early on. Unfortunately getting harder to find guys like this anymore…