Crazy service prices.

[ricohman]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I do my own work, but as a mechanic I know that even at those prices nobodys getting rich.
Even at $110 an hour, the profit for an auto shop can be less than 10%.

 

[Volphin]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I have a few thoughts on doing the work myself.

1. I have PTO so it does not cost me money to take a day off
2. I enjoy the work
3. I have peace of mind knowing how things come apart and go back togeather
4. I can use the money saved on more gas,bullets, lumber or what ever I feel like doing
5. It counts twards household work
6. There is an amount of pride you have when you do your own work and take care of your own things

I agree 100% I used to work as a service tech many years ago. I enjoy repairing things properly and to my own high standards. But do I want to do it for a living? Uh, no. My body took quite a beating from those years and sometimes it reminds me of them quite painfully. Being a business owner, I know the costs involved today, so I have no problem with what shops charge for repairs. I just choose to DIY.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I don't use the shop for much of anything when it comes to boats. I have several outboards that are so easy to run and maintain, they rarely need that level of mechanical work. It's by design that I have it this way. My days of slip fee's pulling the boat, storage, winterization, shrink-wrapping are all gone! As they say, if you have to ask how much, chances are you can't afford it. There is a way to boat and not have to deal with all that cost, you just need to be wise about the kind of boating you do, as well as having the room, time and knowledge to accomplish these basic maintenance items. I also do this with my snowmobiles, truck and many other hobby interest's. I also enjoy knowing the basics on what I can do and what needs to go to the shop to do. There are some things that are actually better to take to the pro's, in the end it saves both time and $$.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Crazy service prices.

My mechanic knows me well as I see him several times a week at the marina where he works/my dry slip. The shop gets all my work. They know I'm on the water all year. I give them blue crabs often and fish at times. Don't be surprised if you get a call with a slight delay on your job while mine is squeezed in. Due to the marina they have work year round and hire the best mechanics. Tools-- own nearly everything a mechanic or wood shop would use, no longer want to use them as it takes time from family, fishing, and boating.
Priorities.....

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I do my own work, but as a mechanic I know that even at those prices nobodys getting rich.
Even at $110 an hour, the profit for an auto shop can be less than 10%.

It seems crazy that they're not making money, but it's mostly true. I was talking to a small, marine mechanic I go to who only charges a mere $85/hr. (cash, no credit cards, no checks) and he says that most of that goes to cover insurance liability for the shop not so much manpower or materials. Of course, there is a certain economy of scale to anything such that when marinas get large enough, they can start to get ahead of the price curve and start to really grow. Down her in FL, once you're marina is big enough, the "white boats" (yachts, bill fishing boats) come to visit at which point money is literally no object for their owners. They routinely spend $5,000-$10,000k dollars to fill up on fuel, and that only lasts a couple days (let that sink in for a minute). If they only take 10 trips a year that means they're spending between $50k-$100k just on fuel!!!! Not to mention the 3 brand new +300hp outboards they slap on the back boat every 2-3 years, because you know the old one are sooooooo old and ugly :/ Must be nice.......

 

[rbh]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I do my own work, but as a mechanic I know that even at those prices nobodys getting rich.
Even at $110 an hour, the profit for an auto shop can be less than 10%.

I used to think that as well, until I was told by a mechanic that he was paid piece work per project and the shop charged a flat rate per project (book says 2.5 hours to complete) plus!! if there were issues in the re and re of the parts (bolt head snapped off/bolt was froze in place ETC) they added onto the bill hourly charge as well and he got a small percentage of that.

 

[BRICH1260]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I dont mind paying the going hourly rate, but I want a true hour of work. I dont want to pay for his coffee break, smoke break, phone call to the girlfriend , ect.. while he is charging me an outrageous fee. I dont want to have to pay for three hours of labor when it could really be done in 1.5. That where it becomes gouging.

 

[pikefisherman]

Re: Crazy service prices.

Agree with greenbush if you want to avoid high maintance cost or DIY maintance keep it simple, our local mechanic is good about telling me that this is a easy project and selling me the parts. I think his labor is 80 an hour but he will tell you up frount if the motor is worth repair.

 

[srdumstorf]

Re: Crazy service prices.

To the computer wiz gentleman; Overhead at shops runs pretty high and part of that overhead is buying and maintaining diagnostic equipment. A good shop will have a handheld computer or laptop that can plug in and operate every function of any modern engine. Example; fire off any coil/plug or operate a solenoid, but most importantly they have a history of every second the engine has ran and can tell you anything thats occurred out of the norm, say, at 430 hrs engine temp 230 degrees, plug cyl#3 misfired. Why don't you put your experience and knowledge to work, make a program that's affordable and offer it to the DIY so that they can, 1. troubleshoot themselves 2. see/keep their shops honest. Granted things like a broken connecting rod or a bent valve cannot be detected and reported but events that led up to the failure can usually indicate why the failure occurred.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Crazy service prices.

Good point on the expensive diagnostic equipment--that's an investment that has to be recovered and is not recaptured in a simple hourly rate. In fact, businesses that charge by the hour have to watch for the effect of spending money to buy tools/programs that add efficiency (time savings) as they are at the base spending money so they can earn less. Ooops!

There is also something to be said for giving business to a repair shop so they will be there for you when you need them. Same goes for paying the inflated price at the dockside bait/tackle/parts shop--he pays a whole lot of rent for the waterfront store for your convenience, so it is almost immoral to stop and the cheap shop on the way to his to save a couple bucks.

One of the repair shops I use, I get a lot of free mechanical advice because with my old beat-up gear they would prefer I give it a whack first. I always buy something such as oil when I'm in there even though I could probably get it cheaper at a big box or on line (I also think it's immoral to shop at walmart). If I don't need my boat for two months I tell them that when I bring it in; that way if comes a time I need it immediately they may return the courtesy.

So if you have your boat in the shop for something you can't or don't want to do, go ahead and pay them to do a couple other things like change the L/U oil while it's there and keep them in business for when you need them. Or else you may find yourself driving to the next city or worse, to basspro for engine service.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I dont mind paying the going hourly rate, but I want a true hour of work. I dont want to pay for his coffee break, smoke break, phone call to the girlfriend , ect.. while he is charging me an outrageous fee. I dont want to have to pay for three hours of labor when it could really be done in 1.5. That where it becomes gouging.

Doesn't matter if the mechanic has a break. Flat rate is flat rate. But some jobs (like busted fasteners) will pay straight time. This is when knowing who your mechanic is, and how skillful he is, can be very important.

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I'm sure glad I know how to fix and maintain my own stuff. I use- and then winterize- our houseboat, 26' Chaparral, and a 40' motorhome every year. I change the oil & filters in the 4 engines (motorhome takes 11 GALLONS of oil, that's fun!), pump out the tanks in both boats, drain the engines in the boats, drain the drive on the Chap (houseboat stays in the water again this year) and drain and antifreeze the fresh water systems in all of them. I couldn't afford to pay someone to do all that. And then the un-winterizing costs...

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Crazy service prices.

Now those are some toys!!!! I gotta get in the Frantically Relaxing biz.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Crazy service prices.

Good point on the expensive diagnostic equipment--that's an investment that has to be recovered and is not recaptured in a simple hourly rate.

And let's not forget, when we're talking about technology and diagnostics, the repair shops are shooting at a moving target. Technology is ever changing, and the rate of change steadily increases, too. That investment in 'tools' is ongoing and they ain't cheap.

 

[rothfm]

Re: Crazy service prices.

Like already stated, there's a market...Folks who do not want do DYI, or have the ability or knowledge. Or those that have plenty of money who prefer to have others do their maintenance work.

but more often than not, the lines of appropriate profit-making and unethical practices get crossed.

I happened to be at a dealership as a vender on a service call repairing an Automatic door opener on the building. I was overhearing an older man asking for explanation of his spring "un-winterizing" bill. It was a couple thousand dollars!! This place nickle-and-dimed him for everything. I could not believe the mark up on senseless things. I felt bad for him and wanted to meet him at his car and tell him he got taken for a expensive ride (but didnt).

I guess the buyer has to beware, and be an educated shopper, as in all industries. But the marine is especially prone to this crazy overcharging. I'm from the camp that I'll do it myself (or give it a dam good attempt) and use the pro's for something thats out of my realm, while scrutinizing any charge and asking alot of questions.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Crazy service prices.

Good point on the expensive diagnostic equipment--that's an investment that has to be recovered and is not recaptured in a simple hourly rate.

You can buy a "good enough" laptop or a tablet for a couple of hundred bucks. The "expensive diagnostic equipment", cable and software, can be picked up for less than $100

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Crazy service prices.

A couple grand to "un-winterize"? There is a big shop near here with shady overcharge practices. He gets little local business and that only 1 time. If not in a resort/vacation area they would have been closed long ago. They sold a boat with a guarantee ~~~ it ran fine on the muffs at the shop. Put it in gear and it dies. Back to the shop 8 times, finally another mechanic fixed it in 10 minutes or less~~ great mechanics too right? The bad shops are out there! However, most are honest and fair.

Like already stated, there's a market...Folks who do not want do DYI, or have the ability or knowledge. Or those that have plenty of money who prefer to have others do their maintenance work.

but more often than not, the lines of appropriate profit-making and unethical practices get crossed.

I happened to be at a dealership as a vender on a service call repairing an Automatic door opener on the building. I was overhearing an older man asking for explanation of his spring "un-winterizing" bill. It was a couple thousand dollars!! This place nickle-and-dimed him for everything. I could not believe the mark up on senseless things. I felt bad for him and wanted to meet him at his car and tell him he got taken for a expensive ride (but didnt).

I guess the buyer has to beware, and be an educated shopper, as in all industries. But the marine is especially prone to this crazy overcharging. I'm from the camp that I'll do it myself (or give it a dam good attempt) and use the pro's for something thats out of my realm, while scrutinizing any charge and asking alot of questions.

 

[ceasarea]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I paid $245 + tax to have my inboard 4.3/ volvo outdrive winterized in Ontario....Including an oil change and the bottom fluid replaced on the outdrive .Yup its a lot....but the place has a good reputation and i can sleep at night knowing my block wont crack over the winter. I'll do the stuff like clean and wax the hull and general maintenance but since i am not overly mechanical i am afraid i might not do it 100% right myself.

 

[Sea Stomper]

Re: Crazy service prices.

I work for Cummins and among other certifications, I am the certified Cummins Marine tech for Humboldt County. Cummins Pacific has the highest shop rate at 102.50 per hour of any shop behind the redwood curtain. We are a multi million dollar organization covering all of California and Hawaii. Our rates are market driven, and built into those rates are full warrany backing of all of our work. Smaller organizations also have high costs to protect their businesses. Working on boats, especially expensive ones carries with it risk. Owners with money also use lawyers for their protection. Businesses like ours can be targets for lawsuits. So we have to be darn good at what we do to stay competitive. To achieve that goal, we are intensively trained, and use decision making protocols designed to avoid expensive errors. We communicate a lot. The costs of these and many more factors add up to drive the rates.

Reputation is EVERYTHING. Boat owners often have bad experiences using techs who undercut higher rates. They then come to places like ours where we can warranty a very expensive repair, a warranty that is likely never to be needed because of the way the business works. Any repair, especially the expensive ones, are difficult to perform, require many dozens of perfect error free acts with hundreds of parts to be disassembled and reassembled. No mistakes can be tolerated. The world of human intervention into complex machines is unforgiving. Professionalism of the highest order has to be the goal of an organization that charges "crazy service prices".

So you are faced with making a choice that you then must live by. You live and die by your choices.

The prices can be crazy. The world can be crazy. The reason for this is that people can be crazy. Perspective is key.

May you be blessed to make the right decisions. And by all means, enjoy your boating.

 

[82rude]

Re: Crazy service prices.

You can buy a "good enough" laptop or a tablet for a couple of hundred bucks. The "expensive diagnostic equipment", cable and software, can be picked up for less than $100

I looked into the software for my etec ,as far as I know you can get it but without the codes you can only look ,you cant do squat.if that has changed id love to know dingbat.well actually in 4 more years id like to know as I still got some serious time on my warranty and a good dealer.still would be nice to change idle settings by 50 rpm though.i was amazed at what that comp told the tech about my running of the motor .amazing.