Boat Worth Fixing?

[fat fanny]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Thanx for the heads up Watermann must have missed the video! I retract my previous comments. Unload it !

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Thanx for the heads up Watermann must have missed the video! I retract my previous comments. Unload it !

What part of the video makes you say that? Because it looks so dumpy? Is it the rotted wood?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

remember, the motor and drive are the EASIEST and CHEAPEST thing to fix. the fiberglass and structure repair has to happen first.

when I said you have to sink another $6500 into it, that is on top of what you already have sunk in it.

I really don't think I'd have to put 6500 into it. I've already got 2300 in it, sunk money, almost literally :lol:. I'm not getting that 2300 back, unless by some miracle I can collect my judgement.

I know it looked pretty bad in the video but I spent a day cleaning it up and it's much, much better. I don't care about repairing the interior and all the electrical stuff seems to be working. I'm hoping that the engine is the only issue. I'll post some updated pics.

If I could find an engine for ~$1500 and install it myself maybe it would be worth salvaging? Once I took my car to a high school to fix my rear struts and the labor was free, has anybody heard of marine schools doing something similar?

my estimated were for you to do the work yourself. so taking it to a school for the free labor doesnt change the estimates. yes, your wiring may be working now, however corrosion is steadily destroying the wiring harness because it was sunk. even if the wiring harness is ok, you still have rotten floors, transom and stringers

you have a trailer with a scrap boat on it. you won judgement - I suggest you cut your losses.

However if you decide to keep it, you are looking at the following if you are a savy shopper and can do the work yourself:
Replace motor and outdrive ~$2k
redo interior ~$1500
redo wiring ~$500
redo gauges ~$200
restore stringer, transom, deck and foam ~$2000

so you have a boat worth $3500 with $6200 worth of your hard cash in it, not to mention the approximate 500 hours you will put into it.

However it is your money do what you want. to make the boat safe, you still have to gut it and redo the struture before you need to worry about the motor and drive.

lastly, you have not even confirmed you own the boat free and clear. if you do not own it free and clear, then you may not be able to register it. that still needs to be your first step.

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Thanks Scott. Why do you think the floors are rotten? Because of what you saw in the video/pics or just because it was sunk?
There's no way in hell I'm going to gut the floors and redo them, that's way too much work for this boat. If you think they're rotten then I'll definitely junk it or try and part it out.

Thanks.

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Hey Scott, just saw you are from Bradenton. I'm from near Clearwater, small world!

To confirm, yes the boat is mine. I have the title and the judgement I won did not say I had to return the boat. The amount I won was for an estimate to repair the engine, which happened to be just a smidge more than what I paid for the boat

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

I don't see it as an IF it'll have problems down the road related to being sunk, it's WHEN

It's been underwater, so below decks has gotten wet. What will it take to make sure the foam, deck & stringers haven't been water compromised? Destructive testing, cutting it open in multiple areas, from the deck to the hull. Pulling foam & etc as necessary to core drill the stringers & transom.

Perhaps you dodge a bullet by being in Florida, and once wet the boat wasn't subjected to freeze~thaw cycles. So maybe the foam hasn't been compromised. Won't know until you open it up. In a salt environment, any components, wiring & connections are likely to have been exposed to salt water. Have they been compromised, will it be a problem in 3 years? 5? 10? After only 1?

If the below deck structure has gotten wet, will it dry still encased in fiberglass? To some degree you dodged another bullet by having the boat sink in salt water. Rot may not develop as quickly, if at all, if I understand the differences between salt & fresh water effects on wood.

YOU are the only one who has SEEN your boat, and more importantly the ONLY one whose crawled all over it & felt it's current conditions. Only you know your skill level, a budget & etc.

As a side note, how long was the boat left uncovered at the shop you mentioned storing it (while you sued I suspect)? In Florida, uncovered for long could also cause a lot of problems below decks, even w/ out freeze~thaw cycle.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

jbcurt00, down here in Florida, it could be salt water, it could be fresh water, it could be brackish water, and someone could have stored it on a trailer with the plug in it durring the rainy season when it rains 4" per day. we know that the inside of the boat was full of water, and there appears to be soft spots based on the video.

ijabit, water on the outside of a boat is good. water on the inside of a boat is bad. boat builders make sure the outside of the hull is water tight. the inside is only intended to be good enough for a 5-10 year life span max. boat builders want the boats to be replaced so they continue to make new boats. that being stated, stringers, bulkheads and the transom are never sealed well enough from the inside to prevent damage if the boat has water in it. your video shows you beating on the floor with a pair of pliers, and I believe you mention a soft spot in the first 15-20 seconds. the floor is the last thing to rot out, usually the transom and stringers are the first things to. your video is why I believe that you need stingers, a transom, and a new floor.

if the boat was sunk in salt water, the wood would be wet, however preserved because the salt water acts as a preservative of the wood (killing most of the bacteria that cause rot) it doesnt look llike it in your case.

however since you have the title, it is your boat. spend a day cleaning it, pull the drive, then pull the motor. then start inspection drilling to make sure.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Sorry you got jipped brother. The good thing is that you learned a great lesson and won't listen to the "honest word" of bad sellers ever again. I go through my purchases with a fine toothed comb, and if I have questions that I need answered, I come here. You have already spent much time griping over this. A total restore will only add to that agony, and that boat has bad Ju-Ju. At least you will get your $2600, even if it is slowly.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

jbcurt00, down here in Florida, it could be salt water, it could be fresh water, it could be brackish water, and someone could have stored it on a trailer with the plug in it durring the rainy season when it rains 4" per day. we know that the inside of the boat was full of water, and there appears to be soft spots based on the video.

Sorry, I agree w/ you, it appears to be a fairly involved and extensive rebuild is in order. I was trying to point out that even if he dodged the freeze~thaw or fresh water specific problems, there's NO WAY to know how extensive it'll be in the end UNTIL you tear into it.

The OP has repeatedly said he had NO plans to do a full gut resto.

I'm still confused how many people wonder why they need to be overly concerned w/ boats that have been sunk and would probably NEVER consider buying a car that's been thru a flood............................

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

jbcurt00, my guess is they think....its a boat, my grand dads boat could get wet on the inside (an old tinny). why cant my fiberglass boat get wet.

maybe its because cars like the corvette come out and people think....its fiberglas...no rust ever, until the frame rots out between the trailing arms and main tubes and the car collapses.

dont really know.

ijabit, I work in Largo off of 66th and Bryan Dairy. if your close to there, I can swing by sometime to take a look. PM me your address.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

There's no way in hell I'm going to gut the floors and redo them, that's way too much work for this boat. If you think they're rotten then I'll definitely junk it or try and part it out.

Excellent, now keep going with this!:encouragement:

 

[73Chrysler105]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

I would restore the boat if it were mine. I have replaced motors for people in boats like this and charge them between $750 and $1200 for the motor and installation. That being said if you do not want to tear up the floor and check the foam and stringers underneath then you are wasting your time and should get what you can out of it. To me this boat is worth $500 and if you were near me in Texas I would give that to you for it and spend $1500-$2k and a lot of hours rebuilding it. It would be like new and last another 20-30 years. I probably would end up adding it to the fleet.

 

[rpdwyer]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

2 separate issues:
Do whatever it takes to collect... make this guy's life difficult at every turn until he returns your money. I would actually spend money to just to make sure he paid the $'s back... but that's me and I tend to be stupid like that.

RE, the boat, if it sunk, it likely is going to need a lot more than just an engine... the other things will add up of course pretty quick. I think if you cleaned the boat up... at least the outside of it, were honest in your description about the engine and the fact that it likely was sunk, you can unload it pretty quick with trailer for a sum certainly less than what you paid for it, but it's better than keeping it and 1 year from know looking at your collective receipts and shaking your head at the amount you spent (been there, done that).

Just my opinion.

A thought.... if this guy does do a 180 and suddenly says "Here's your money back, give me my boat back."... are you obligated to return the boat?



I wish you the best of luck either way.

--Rick

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Listen, life of full of expensive lessons, yours wasn’t all that bad. Frisco made the same mistake and he turned it into a wonderful educational adventure we all enjoyed following and learning from. I made – more or less - the same mistake and I decided to rebuild the whole boat, a project that is currently on hold but I am determined to get back to it once I am – physically – ready for it . Unlike Frisco and me, you have a judgment. If you don’t know how - or you don't want - to collect this money yourself, you can sell it or assign it to a collection agency. Yes, they will charge you a decent percentage of the judgment but you should be OK with that not only because they will be doing all the dirty work on your behalf but also because you need to accept some responsibilities and loses for your mistakes. This is fair. I think you should do this - or any other measures to get at least some of your money back - no matter what will you decide to do with the boat.

Regarding the boat, do you want to learn about the making of boats and gain the knowledge of how they work under the hood – or the deck for that matter - so you can choose your next boat yourself with very little risk of being cheated or fooled? Or, you just – like most car drivers – want something that roars when you turn the key and allowing you to enjoy being on the water?

If it is the former, rebuild this boat if you can afford it. Don’t think of it from the “I am putting more money than the boat is worth” perspective. You are not financing the boat. You are investing in your own knowledge and experience, that is basically what you are buying plus a bonus of nice running boat at the end. This knowledge will pay you back in dividends and teach you how to confidently pilot and keep any vessel in a very good seaworthy condition whether this one or your next ones.

I did not pay to survey my latest purchase of a Bayliner 28. I knew exactly what to look for. I even was able to prove to the previous owner that his mechanic is "full of it" and he is charging him for work he did not do. I am not saying I am an expert but I am not as oblivious about boats as I was in 2010. Again, I invested in my own knowledge and experience and I don’t regret it one bit and will do it again without thinking. But I wanted to do this, I wanted to learn this, I am this type of guy who likes to play with these things. Are you?!

The only reason I am asking is that the question you are asking us to answer for you “fix or not” is basically a question only you can answer not any of us. Everyone here is telling you what they would do based on their knowledge of themselves and what they already know and don’t know, based on what they have already experienced and learned and not worth repaying for. But what about you, what do you want to do? Only you can decide if this "investment" is worth the ROI which includes - but not limited to - a good runing boat at the end.

If you are not this type of guy and just want to cruise the waters for as long as your vessel is alive, move on and keep looking for your next boat.


My 2 cents

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

I would restore the boat if it were mine. I have replaced motors for people in boats like this and charge them between $750 and $1200 for the motor and installation. That being said if you do not want to tear up the floor and check the foam and stringers underneath then you are wasting your time and should get what you can out of it. To me this boat is worth $500 and if you were near me in Texas I would give that to you for it and spend $1500-$2k and a lot of hours rebuilding it. It would be like new and last another 20-30 years. I probably would end up adding it to the fleet.

Wow, $750 for a new engine, wish I was in Texas! A guy came out a couple weeks ago and quoted me around $3k!

Some have said that I might not have to tear up the floor because it was sunk in saltwater and I'm still clinging to that glimmer of hope. You guys are talking about core samples to see if it's rotten, does anyone have any good videos or sites showing how to do that?

I would probably put the work into it if it was a bit "nicer" boat. Say if it was an '04. But this is an old boat and I don't think I want to tear up the floor and put all of that work into it when the end result will still be an old boat :/

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Thanks DeepBlue. Those are all valid points and if it were a newer boat I might consider it. I am the type of person that would love to dig into this boat and restore it. I'd be more willing to do all of this if it were a decade newer...

Someone else also mentioned the "admiral" who may have an issue with this job which is very valid. My wife has already said that she can picture me coming in all frustrated because I can't get something to work or because I've just broken something critical and she is very against the project. I can't blame her, I do get pretty grumpy when things aren't working out lol. For all of these reasons there's no way I'm ever going to tear into the floor on this particular boat.

My only hope was that the floor was okay and that I could find a decent price on a used engine. I'm fine with tinkering with electrical connections and fixing little things here and there but a full restore is not in the cards for this boat.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Then ^^^ those comments should be the death nail.

I would be very surprised that there wasn't water damage below decks. Not 'just'' rotten wood. And again, when the boat was left uncovered at the repair place while you sued the seller, it never rained? Even parked bow up, drain plug out, 6 or 9mo of exposure could be plenty enough.

How long was the boat submerged? Given the seller's history, I doubt I'd believe anything he said about how long it was under water.

The boat has a below deck fuel cell. Where? Is it plastic, steel or aluminum? You'd have to pull some portion of the floor to confirm it's condition.

My wife is fairly tolerant of my boat shenanigans, but if she knew I'd been burned on a project it would be a tough up hill battle to get the project funded & redone. No matter the confidence in my ability to get it done. It would always frustrate me to no end every time I looked at it.

Contacted any agencies to see about having them hunt down the deadbeat to collect your judgement?

If you're not able to stash this rig w/out hassles from an HOA, or having to pay storage fees, that'd be another reason to get out from under it now.

Good luck, and since you own this one, I'd really be inclined to dissect it while you wait to collect the judgement, and keep looking at boats for sale. They will be an education about both the boats in your marketplace, you may develop a better BS detector when talking to sellers. The more boats you see, the more questions you'll KNOW to ask and you'll be better able to inspect a boat, motor & trailer completely......

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Thanks DeepBlue. Those are all valid points and if it were a newer boat I might consider it. I am the type of person that would love to dig into this boat and restore it. I'd be more willing to do all of this if it were a decade newer...

Someone else also mentioned the "admiral" who may have an issue with this job which is very valid. My wife has already said that she can picture me coming in all frustrated because I can't get something to work or because I've just broken something critical and she is very against the project. I can't blame her, I do get pretty grumpy when things aren't working out lol. For all of these reasons there's no way I'm ever going to tear into the floor on this particular boat.

My only hope was that the floor was okay and that I could find a decent price on a used engine. I'm fine with tinkering with electrical connections and fixing little things here and there but a full restore is not in the cards for this boat.

floors are the last thing to rot out. the stringers and transom go first.

you have to drill core samples first.

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

I wish this would be as straighforward as the old pontoon I restored:

 

[ijabit]

Re: Boat Worth Fixing?

Then ^^^ those comments should be the death nail.

I would be very surprised that there wasn't water damage below decks. Not 'just'' rotten wood. And again, when the boat was left uncovered at the repair place while you sued the seller, it never rained? Even parked bow up, drain plug out, 6 or 9mo of exposure could be plenty enough.

How long was the boat submerged? Given the seller's history, I doubt I'd believe anything he said about how long it was under water.

The boat has a below deck fuel cell. Where? Is it plastic, steel or aluminum? You'd have to pull some portion of the floor to confirm it's condition.

My wife is fairly tolerant of my boat shenanigans, but if she knew I'd been burned on a project it would be a tough up hill battle to get the project funded & redone. No matter the confidence in my ability to get it done. It would always frustrate me to no end every time I looked at it.

Contacted any agencies to see about having them hunt down the deadbeat to collect your judgement?

If you're not able to stash this rig w/out hassles from an HOA, or having to pay storage fees, that'd be another reason to get out from under it now.

Good luck, and since you own this one, I'd really be inclined to dissect it while you wait to collect the judgement, and keep looking at boats for sale. They will be an education about both the boats in your marketplace, you may develop a better BS detector when talking to sellers. The more boats you see, the more questions you'll KNOW to ask and you'll be better able to inspect a boat, motor & trailer completely......

I don't know how long it was submerged. The seller never told me it was. I found out it was sunk because the repair shop I took it to happened to be the same one that the previous owner bought the boat from! They told me it was sunk but didn't have much more information on the circumstances around the sinking.

It was sitting at the repair shop for 3 months while I sued him and wasn't covered...

It has a plastic fuel tank.

I haven't contacted any collection agencies because I'm waiting for the judgement to show up in the mail. Apparently the court didn't get the judgement signed by the judge and mailed out yet, some miscommunication. Yet another delay in getting my money back...

HOA isn't an issue, not that I know of.

Whether the stringers and transom needs to be replaced is really the burning question. Please take a look at my new video on YouTube and let me know what you think. I think they hacked out a piece of the floor to fix some electrical issues and in the process compromised some of the floor structure.

The more I think about the issues that we overlooked when buying this boat the more I want to kick myself in the junk. I was completely blinded by the emotion of having a boat and getting out on the water, especially in my first hot summer living in Florida...