Big wooden boat project [Splashed Sept 2017]

[proshadetree]

That is awesome. Rod caps look huge compaired to the rod itself. Can't believe that the crank isnt rusted solid. A very unique piece you have there,too cool.

 

[Ned L]

Sorry that I can't really get a decent picture of the rods to see how big they are. I can't even get a good idea when I look.

Last night I pulled the oil pump off, took it all apart (ball bearings, springs, etc all look like new) and cleaned it all. Not much to look at when together, but here it is.

I put it all back together and re-installed it. It is actuated by a simple pushrod off the cam., just like a valve.

With all the 'peanut butter' cleaned out I put it all back together.

Here it is standing on the flywheel end.

............. OK, I will admit that I broke the 'cardinal rule' of not reusing the pan gasket (shouldn't really re-use any gasket). I was lazy and didn't feel like cutting a new one. the old one came off very cleanly. I did put a very thin layer of Permatex on both sides just to make sure, ..... and the engine will really only be run occasionally from now on. (And it is a very easy job to replace if need be.
.................................. For those who don't know the best way to cut a gasket, ...... You simply lay a piece of gasket paper over the part and gently tap around all the perimeters with a small ball peen hammer (mounting holes and all). This uses the edge of the part to cut the gasket paper. Even complexly shaped gaskets can be accurately produced in only a minute or two this way. There is no tracing and cutting involved at all. Many gaskets can be made this way with just gasket paper stock from a local auto supply place.

 

[Patfromny]

Permatex doesn't get along with gasoline too well. Hylomar would be my choice in the future. Not sure if this was the motor that collects gas in the pan. If you get any Permatex inside it will gel and possibly block oil passages. Might be worth the few minutes to make a new gasket. Sorry to give you the bad news Ned.

 

[Willyclay]

I thought I was the only guy still using Permatex. This thread just keeps on getting greater!

 

[Ned L]

Oh yes,.... Permatex is good stuff, just need to know its limitations. In my experience, Permatex gets along with true gasoline ok, definately it does not get along with alcohol (so you need to be careful with today's "gasoline"). This is a four cycle engine, so there is no gas there. It is a regular crank case, just like a car (there are bigger problems if there is that much gas there. Lol )
I was going to use a little high temp RTV, but that's out on the boat and I didn't feel like going out there in the cold.
Oh,.... and I used such a small amount that there was no measurable squeeze out (just a shiney hair line).

 

[Ned L]

Ahhh,... right on the tube "Leakproof to gasoline, kerosene, fuel oils, diesel oils, engine lubricants, hot or cold water."

 

[DFord143]

This boat is amazing. Wooden boats always have so much sophistication and class. Great work Ned!

 

[Patfromny]

Well alright, maybe they have changed the formula since I was working on cars... Quite a long time ago. Permatex and the like were no no's when fuel was involved. Have seen first hand the damage done to carbs when someone decided to seal with the stuff. If the pan just holds oil then I wouldn't worry anyway.

EDIT: Which product did you use? I Googled to satisfy my curiosity and could only find that they claim to "resist" fuels. It is a mute point if only oil in the pan and if you used very little but would like to know if they make a fuel proof formula. If the formula is the same, this stuff will break off and get into fuel systems when used in the typical way (think toothpaste on a toothbrush). It should only be used as you have said you did, sparingly or even miserly.

 

[proshadetree]

So many of today's engines use some form of permatex on gaskets it isnt funny. Then you order a replacement gasket and you get a tube of gasket maker. Some of that stuff is so hard to break the seal on you warp the part you are trying to remove. Makes you wonder how it leaked at all. Ned the rods looked smallish with big rodends in the pics. Never thought much about rods untill I saw my father bent one in a flathead Ford. They were long and skinny. The old engines did things that defied logic to me. One bearing for two rods, oil dippers, poured bearings. Most of the stuff i started working on was 60s and 70s. 40s and 50s technology baffled me.

 

[Ned L]

Well alright, maybe they have changed the formula since I was working on cars... Quite a long time ago. Permatex and the like were no no's when fuel was involved. Have seen first hand the damage done to carbs when someone decided to seal with the stuff. If the pan just holds oil then I wouldn't worry anyway.

EDIT: Which product did you use? I Googled to satisfy my curiosity and could only find that they claim to "resist" fuels. It is a mute point if only oil in the pan and if you used very little but would like to know if they make a fuel proof formula. If the formula is the same, this stuff will break off and get into fuel systems when used in the typical way (think toothpaste on a toothbrush). It should only be used as you have said you did, sparingly or even miserly.

There are two 'common' types of Permatex, "1" and "2". Type 1 is a hard setting formula and type 2 remains softer and more pliable. I completely agree that you could end up with some real problems using either type on a carburetor. If the bead of 'squeeze out' breaks off in the bowl it would create havoc in the carb. When I use a 'gasket sealer' (Permatex, RTV, whatever) I apply it as you said, in a "miserly" fashion. On this pan gasket most of what I applied was just enough to gloss up the surface which resulted in no squeeze out at all.

I remember when I was growing up in the late 60's & 70's (real young child LOL ) seeing adds for Permatex in magazines such as Popular Mechanics and Popular Science where the adds showed a picture of a car and claimed the car was completely assembled with no gaskets at all, - just Permatex - , and there were no leaks at all.

......

Ahh yes, 50's, 60's & 70's technology, back before they started hooking wires up to the carburetors, when you could do all your own work, and with not much more than a screwdriver and a couple of wrenches. ......... When every good garage (home or commercial) had at least a couple of issues of "Motors Manual" on the shelf (still have some of them).
Was it the best technology with the longest life and most reliable??????? ....... No, but a lot more fun.

 

[proshadetree]

Yes it was lots more fun. Just started cutting my teeth back then and had to have pops hold my hand and fix my screw ups. I think flatheads got my interest in odd engines going. I always run the norm but my toys were oddball.

 

[Patfromny]

Ah, the days before torx head screws and metric wrench sets. When there were shocks on all four corners. When you could disassemble an engine with 5 wrenches/socket sizes. On more than one occasion I pulled my car into the garage in the morning, pulled the motor, put another in, and was out cruising that night. I kept a spare, stock engine from a parts car in the garage so I could get to work in the event I blew up the main one.

 

[Ned L]

A number you you sound like how I grew up, watching dad and learning in the 'back yard' or on the boat as a real small child (hmmm,... were we the only kids who wanted to blow the dust out of the brakes to help?? What was that,.... asbestos you say?????). Then helping him do those brake jobs and tune ups as we got older. And then In high school when we would roll one of my brother's friend's cars into the garage on Friday night and on Sunday he would drive away with a "new" engine in it.
You can't beat that for learning and growing up experience.
I don't think today's children have a clue what they are missing sitting in front of a video game monitor. Nothing like a smashed knuckle to make you realize not to do that again! LOL

 

[Willyclay]

When every good garage (home or commercial) had at least a couple of issues of "Motors Manual" on the shelf (still have some of them). Was it the best technology with the longest life and most reliable??????? ....... No, but a lot more fun.

Ditto on the Motors Repair manuals. We call it "fun" now but I had to do it then because I was poor with three young kids!

 

[bajaunderground]

...Ahh yes, 50's, 60's & 70's technology, back before they started hooking wires up to the carburetors, when you could do all your own work, and with not much more than a screwdriver and a couple of wrenches. ......... When every good garage (home or commercial) had at least a couple of issues of "Motors Manual" on the shelf (still have some of them).
Was it the best technology with the longest life and most reliable??????? ....... No, but a lot more fun.

I'll pass I like the HP and fuel mileage that comes with new technology! Great job Ned I bet you drive your wife nuts...never resting or smelling of all things MAN?

Cheers!

 

[proshadetree]

Love the late models untill they screw up. Get out the scanner check the sensor, check the wires. Everthing checks good why the heck is that stupid light on. Pull hair, cuss, stomp. The old engines could run close, heck even not so close and people didnt know or care it wasnt spot on. The new stuff has to be dead on. Now you got a battery under the hood and one in the trunk to run the motor hooked to your engine. .5 volts off and there comes the red light on again. But at least they dont die when you get you hand on the doorknob on those cold mornings.

 

[mickyryan]

simplicity was my favorite tech and I still believe its best on water because as we know , there are no electronics repair shops along the water to grab a part

 

[bajaunderground]

simplicity was my favorite tech and I still believe its best on water because as we know , there are no electronics repair shops along the water to grab a part

I actually agree with this...KISS

 

[Patfromny]

I'm definitely a muscle car guy but boy do I love what fuel injection did for race engines. I can still remember, like it was yesterday, sitting in my firebird revving the engine for 5 minutes or so in the middle of winter just to get it to stay running. Holley carb before the electric chokes were popular. I would put that and electronic ignition over points at the top of my list for improvements over the old.

 

[GA_Boater]

I remember when I was growing up in the late 60's & 70's (real young child

LOL ) seeing adds for Permatex in magazines such as Popular Mechanics and Popular Science where the adds showed a picture of a car and claimed the car was completely assembled with no gaskets at all, - just Permatex - , and there were no leaks at all.

Back to doing without gaskets again only using forms of RTV for almost everything. It just seems so wrong to remove an oil pan or valve cover and find no gasket only gobs of RTV - Especially when I'm working to fix a leak!

I'm definitely a muscle car guy but boy do I love what fuel injection did for race engines. I can still remember, like it was yesterday, sitting in my firebird revving the engine for 5 minutes or so in the middle of winter just to get it to stay running. Holley carb before the electric chokes were popular. I would put that and electronic ignition over points at the top of my list for improvements over the old.

The old hand throttle was a great warm-up tool in the old days.