Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

YD, again thanks for your efforts following and helping my project. I have some updates - I am not going with the pace I want because of my extremely demanding job ? but it is progress nonetheless.<BR>After I started digging the transom out, I was able to answer some of the questions I asked in my previous post. The bottom portion of the transom ? an inch or two above the drain hole ? is a separate piece of wood that is not connected to the rest of the transom wood above it. It is in a better shape that the rest of the wood above it and I don?t think it is ply ? just solid wood. The glass skin of this piece is paper thin. That is why I able to puncture it with a screw driver with minimum force. The transom wood above this piece is a mess. The transom is constructed from few 1/2 thick ply sheets to make it conform to the contour of the hull. These sheets are not glued to each other. Few staple nails - not marine grade ? and that is it. The rot is severe at the inner layers of the ply which makes me believe that the glue between the ply layers started rotting first

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

I will continue to dig out the rest of this transom. Also I will inspect the engine mounts and see if they still solid. What do you guys think of the rebuilding technique? Should I glue one layer at a time, clamp it to the previous layer and so on until I am done or build it all one piece outside the boat and clamp it at the end like FriscoBoater did? Also what about this bottom piece near the drain? Should I retrace this design? The boat worked fine with this design since 1994. I still have some time until I reach this phase, you guys let me know what you think.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Cool design of the glassed hole for the outdrive thats for sure me like.

Kinda hard to tell what to do at the current stage of the tear down. Find the rotted wood and remove it .. we can go from there.

Yes on the multi staged trans job if its real contoured.

Can ya get some snap shots of the mounts too please .

YD.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

YD, I will post a close up of the engine mounts once I get back on the boat. For now, here is my progress for the last weekend..

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

While on break from transom removal, I decided to take a look at my brakes. Here is what I found

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

I did some cleaning with spray cleaner and kerosene. I watched a video on Youtube saying that if grease was found on the brake shoes, the shoes is contaminated and must be replaced. I am not sure if this is true or not. Should I replace them?? They are not worn out and the only reason for me to replace them will be based on this grease contamination story. The spindle has a big scratch as you can see in the picture, I am not sure if this was the reason for a bad seal! What you guys think?

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

As Frisco used to say ?another weekend has begun?. I started by taking close up of the engine mounts as I promised YD. Here they are..



But something didn?t ?smell? right when I inserted a chisel inside the hole where the engine mount bolts used to be so I decided to ?investigate?. Here is what I found....



The engine mounts are gone now.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

The stringers also look a little suspicious. Bayliner stapled the bulkheads to the stringers during installation using steel staples. This joint was wet when I removed the bulkhead. Later, it dried out but here is how one of these joints looks now..



It seems like a stringers job as well, right:facepalm:? The stringers near the cabin are bone dry ? I took a core samples ? so I am thinking of replacing the stringers from the transom up to the cabin and splice/join to the original stringers. What do you guys think, will this work? If so, take a look at this picture,



notice that the stringers are not straight. They curve inwards as they move forward towards the cabin. Can someone tell me what is the best way to reproduce this curve in the new stringer? Also, what material should I use? I know ? marine grade ply has been used often in restoration projects here in iBoat but what about fir?
I am thinking of removing this last bulkhead that separates the cabin from the rest of the boat and join the stringers under the galley/bathroom area since this area is always dry I assume it will be the best place for the join. I am planning on a butt joint sandwiched between two ? marine ply 1 foot long each. This will be a PL sandwich. Finally, of course, 1708 the heck out of it. Should I add two stainless steel bolts on each joint to the plan or do you think this will be overkill. I am OK with overkill if it is not going to hurt anything.

Finally, both the stringers and the engine mounts are/were installed on the hull itself not the transom wood. Is this the best way to do it? What if I put the transom first, glass it in and them install the stringers and the engine mounts so that they touch the transom wood not the hull. I believe this will better distribute the thrust force from the out drive and also reduce vibration that transfer from the engine mounts to the hull? What is the experts think about that?

I sure hope these questions will have better luck getting answers than my trailer questions. Thank in advance

 

[Struc]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

I did some cleaning with spray cleaner and kerosene. I watched a video on Youtube saying that if grease was found on the brake shoes, the shoes is contaminated and must be replaced. I am not sure if this is true or not. Should I replace them?? They are not worn out and the only reason for me to replace them will be based on this grease contamination story. The spindle has a big scratch as you can see in the picture, I am not sure if this was the reason for a bad seal! What you guys think?

Yes, replace them. This is true on car brakes as well. The material will soak up oils of pretty much any sort. If it was a little spot with minimal exposure time, I'd say no big deal, but those shoes have been soaking in grease for a long time. They will never work again (not as they should at least).

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Anyone?!!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

It seems like a stringers job as well, right:facepalm:? The stringers near the cabin are bone dry ? I took a core samples ? so I am thinking of replacing the stringers from the transom up to the cabin and splice/join to the original stringers. What do you guys think, will this work?

notice that the stringers are not straight. They curve inwards as they move forward towards the cabin. Can someone tell me what is the best way to reproduce this curve in the new stringer? Also, what material should I use? I know ? marine grade ply has been used often in restoration projects here in iBoat but what about fir?

I am thinking of removing this last bulkhead that separates the cabin from the rest of the boat and join the stringers under the galley/bathroom area since this area is always dry I assume it will be the best place for the join. I am planning on a butt joint sandwiched between two ? marine ply 1 foot long each. This will be a PL sandwich. Finally, of course, 1708 the heck out of it. Should I add two stainless steel bolts on each joint to the plan or do you think this will be overkill. I am OK with overkill if it is not going to hurt anything.

Finally, both the stringers and the engine mounts are/were installed on the hull itself not the transom wood. Is this the best way to do it? What if I put the transom first, glass it in and them install the stringers and the engine mounts so that they touch the transom wood not the hull. I believe this will better distribute the thrust force from the out drive and also reduce vibration that transfer from the engine mounts to the hull? What is the experts think about that?

I sure hope these questions will have better luck getting answers than my trailer questions. Thank in advance

Lots of questions ..

Stringers .. Well you should know whats bad and whats good. Determine where your going to splice to and do the splice as you stated should be fine with the 1708. Through bolts are not needed IMHO .. just another hole that water can get to.

Bent stringers .. I dont know why there bent like that. Im sure you could just use straight stringers like every other boat has ..

Motor mounts.. typically I replace the mounts Exactly the way they were unless there was a real fopah in the OEM construction. You can beef them up a little .. never hurts .

Brakes .. Replace them when in doubt. the one looked a little "glazed". Im no brake expert .. but from what my experience if you have "grease" on them its ok if you wash it off with some brake cleaner. Its the Brake Fluid on them that will be a problem. You might post a different thread on another Non boat/engine forum here on Iboats .

YD.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Hi guys, it has been long time but now I am almost recovered from two carpal tunnel surgeries ? one for each arm ? and the weather is stabilizing around 60F in Seattle, it is time to resume my project and finish this boat. I need all the support I can get from you, so please keep your comments/suggestions/ ideas going. Here is the latest I have done..

As you can see, the last bulk head is gone ? the one the separates the cabin from the rest of the boat and the deck under the galley and the bathroom is also gone. I am planning to leave an access space ? covered by an inspection hatch or a vent when rebuilding the bulkhead marked by red color in the picture above. Please let me know if this is a good idea from a structural integrity stand point.

Also as you can see in this picture and from the pictures in my previous posts, my stringers are not straight, they curve inwards as they advance toward the bow. I am still thinking how to bend the new wood ? ? inch marine grade plywood ? to confirm to this shape!! One idea I am thinking of is to lay the new stringers on top of the old ones vertically ? temporarily of course ? and use clamps every 3 feet or so that are attached to the old stringers by bolts to bend the new stringers to shape. In other words, building a channel of clamps attached to the old stringers ? before removing them ? to help shape the new ones. Does anyone have a better idea?

 

[LiquidC]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Hey Deep .. wow, you really went to town on that boat. Looking good! My 2252 only has rot in the rear of the boat, I drilled in many other places and found it to be solid.

I don't think that piece you have in red would be a problem. Although I'm not an expert boat maker ... I would think that if it's just a hole for a visual, you can drill a round hole. Round is always better for strength.

Bending the wood is a tough one. I've bent wood for making curved walls, and what worked for me was to rig up a type of steam oven. I just used a clothing steamer fed into an air tight box, and left the wood in there for about an hour. You'd need to quickly place the wood against the stringer and clamp it in place and let it completely dry. I'd get a few threaded rods, drill holes in the stringer & new wood, and torque down nuts & washers on both sides to make it easier to clamp them together and hold in place.

Hope this helps & keep up the good work!

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

LiquidC, thanks for stopping by. Yes, I agree with you on the ?going to town? but there is a reason behind the madness. The more I learn about how Bayliner build boats ? well, back in the 90s at least ? the more certain I become that even if some parts of the boat are not rotted now, it is only a matter of time until they would be. Bayliner made sure that these boats will ?self-destruct? eventually. I suppose they wanted to make sure they will sell more of them every year. I am not welling to do this again ? not for the same boat at least ? so I decided to replace every piece of wood on this boat whether it is rotted or not; the decision is paying off as most of the wood I am taking out is either rotted or soft. Demolition is still on, here is the status so far..

About the stringers, the radius is big enough to make the bending doable without steaming. I bend wood for my woodworking hobby but only for decorative not structural purposes. Here are the two plans for the stringers that I am currently evaluating. I will laminate four, ? inch thick, Douglas fir (or Marine ply ? I still need to experiment with both to see which will be more flexible) I will use 4 long boards (8 foot each) for each stringer. Both boards will start at the same point (the transom), but I will cut one of them one foot shorter than the other to form a rabbit which will be used to glue the second set of boards. Here is an illustration..

The alternative plan is very similar but using 3 rows of ? inch marine ply instead for total thickness of a little above ? inch (accounting for the glue).

During lamination, the boards will be bent and clamped to confirm to the stringer contour. We trust PL for a transom lamination so, if I don?t hear otherwise, I would say it is safe to trust it with laminating the stringers

 

[oops!]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

hi deep blue......

sorry this took so long to get to.....my puter was sick

either one of the two combinations you have illistrated will work......but the second is over kill.....just stagger the joints on the ply.

pl will work......but you have to wait for it to cure before glassing....possibly as much as a week.

most of the stregnth of your stringers will come from the glass.....you want lots of stregnth down at the contact point of the stringer hull joint......this is why i bed in peanut butter. (thickened resin)

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

I agree with OOPs. I would use TiteBond III wood glue for your laminations. 100% waterproof and stronger than the PL. Will be good to go over night.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input. A quick update..

Wife/Son don’t want to wait for me until I finish rebuilding this boat.. “make it your Winter project if you like, but in the Summer, we want to go boating” they said. Well, I resisted as much as I could but finally..You guys know how it works.
:facepalm:

I am introducing the new addition to my "fleet" . I did not name her yet. 2855 Ciera 7.4 Engine with Bravo 3 Dual propeller Out Drive. I will be taking her out for the first time in couple of hours. Wish me luck! Passing the Locks from Lake Washington to Seattle will be fun. Never did this before and a little nervous but I am sure it will be OK. I will not abandon this project and will keep you posted.

 

[LiquidC]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Dang! She's a beaut! I wish I had the scratch to do the same thing. How was the first cruise? How about some interior picts?

And I assume you thoroughly checked for wood rot before buying?????

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Sorry, I was away enjoying the summer inside a boat that is actually on the water, for a change

Thanks LiquidC and Yes, I checked every inch. Did not need any marine surveyor this time. I will post interior pictures as soon as I can. Temperature started to cool down in Seattle, I am getting ready to pick up this restoration and see what I can do.