Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Guys,

After a complete season of cruising the Puget Sound in the 2855, it became very hard for me to imagine a good weekend cruising experience with the 2252 with the layout she currently has.

• First, this sleeper seats configuration just sucks. Even my 11 years old doesn’t like it let alone the admiral.
• There is no door in the stern; makes it very difficult to get in/out without some climbing.
• There is no aft berth; which makes sleeping over a little inconvenient to say the least.

I spent a lot of hours working on this boat and selling/abandon it is not an option. Besides, my 28 is not a trailer boat neither do I want to spend the $$ to buy a trailer/truck to trail it. One disadvantage of this is I have to start from the same point every time we take her out. And of course, exploring Eastern Washington is not an option. So, finishing/keeping my 2252 makes sense for now because of all the reasons mentioned above but most importantly because of a very personal desire to complete this project and bring her to a seaworthy condition. There is a special sense of pride for doing that especially of you are a builder at heart. So, if you can’t appreciate that and looking at it from a transactional point of view, I respect your point of view but please respect mine.

With that said, I happen to see a 2355 not long ago when I was shopping for another boat. I couldn’t help noticing how close in dimensions it is to the 2252. Here is the official comparison
from Bayliner..

Here is what I am thinking of doing this winter in a nutshell (saving the details for later when I get your initial feedback)

• Extend the cabin by adding 1 or 2 feet of extra length. The main reason for that is to have a needed clearance between the galley and the aft berth (that will be added)
• Change the layout to allow for an aft berth for junior. The space will be accomplished by raising the deck height (from the cabin entrance door to the end of the aft-berth) to the level of the base of the sleeper seats. As it is in 2355, 2655 and 2855, there is going to be a difference in the deck level between this area and the other – almost – half of the outside deck that is closer to the stern above the engine. Of course with the recess required to enter the cabin comfortably. The aft layout will change to make the deck completely above the engine. No more dog house and the aft seats are not that important. This vessel will be mostly for the 3 of us only.
• On deck, an L-shaped lounge on the port side will be added. On the starboard side, only the captain seat will be added
• The dog house will be replaced by a custom made oversized flat hatch – as it is in 23, 26, and 2855. Don’t forget that the engine will be completely under deck

• The cab will be cut on the starboard side to accommodate an access door and the fish tank will be reduced in size to accommodate the same.

Now, assuming that the cost of doing all of this still less than buying a 2355 in a working condition and assuming that the skills to do it – right – is there, my most important question is this..

Do you see any areas on this plan as a potential structural imbalance to the boat from an architectural stand point? In other words, will the center of gravity or any other stabilizing factors of the vessel will be impacted by this layout change to the point that the vessel will no longer be safe.
I know this is not an easy question to ask and most likely only the architects who put the two designs together will be able to tell for sure but I am OK with “thinking out loud” approach for now.
Please let me know what you think

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

What is going on guys?! No one is interested in putting his/her 2 cents into this discussion?

 

[gddavid]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

This is free advice so take it for what it is worth but I'm afraid that raising the deck height will impact stability too much. I'm not talking about it flipping over but rocking more than what is comfortable. Bayliner probably would have loved to give that boat a flush deck and more sleeping space when they designed the boat in the first place but for some reason they didn't, and it probably wouldn't have cost them much more to do it and it would have been a great selling point so something prevented them. The 2355 is only may only be slightly wider but deadrise, and center of buoyancy might be quite a bit different. If you had used the boat alot before tearing it apart you might have a better idea on how stable it was to begin with and how much you could sacrifice but unless you want to bring in a naval architect I think it would be a poor idea. Bayliners of that vintage have the reputation for bobbing around like a cork anyway due to their light weight.

 

[F14CRAZY]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Bayliner definitely made 22' Ciera's with midberths so I don't see a problem with properly modifying this Classic to have one

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

This is free advice so take it for what it is worth but I'm afraid that raising the deck height will impact stability too much. I'm not talking about it flipping over but rocking more than what is comfortable. Bayliner probably would have loved to give that boat a flush deck and more sleeping space when they designed the boat in the first place but for some reason they didn't, and it probably wouldn't have cost them much more to do it and it would have been a great selling point so something prevented them. The 2355 is only may only be slightly wider but deadrise, and center of buoyancy might be quite a bit different. If you had used the boat alot before tearing it apart you might have a better idea on how stable it was to begin with and how much you could sacrifice but unless you want to bring in a naval architect I think it would be a poor idea. Bayliners of that vintage have the reputation for bobbing around like a cork anyway due to their light weight.

I thought of that also but here is how I see it..
The deck was already raised - perminantly - by the sleeper seats bases. This is how it "used" to look like

The only difference is the middle area between them was not connected as it will be in my plan.

Would that make any difference is still yet to be seen. Thank you all for your input

 

[LiquidC]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Hey Deep ... those are some ambitious plans!

If you are going to make the deck height the same height as the seat bases, I think you'll be too close to the cap line where the top cap is riveted to the hull. I've inspected the hull thickness around the cap line, and it seems to be pretty thin/weak. Bayliner added some fiberglass to thicken it up. The 2252 is top heavy as it is, it sits very high out of the water, so adding weight high above the water line would be OK, it's just that you'll be bobbing left & right more.

You definitely have some good ideas, even ones that I may incorporate into my 2252. If you need just one more sleeping area, why not just make below the port side seats into a type of bunk and allow access into the cabin? The sink would be in the way, but kids would be able to climb in.

If it was my boat, I would fix it up, sell it, & take the money to buy the boat you really want.

Just my 2 cents, good luck!

Colin

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Colin, this is a good feedback, thank you. About the boat I really want, I hope you remember that you congratulated me on my 2855 last July (Check post #58 on page 3). I am not building this boat to be the boat I need, rather to be the one I am proud of building it myself. Your observation of the hull thinness near the seam line is interesting. I need to check this out. The deck line will be at the same height as the old sleeper seats base and those were already fiber glassed to the hull at the same area (close to the seam line). With that said, what would be your concern if ? instead of the sleeper seats base ? it becomes the front portion of the deck?

 

[LiquidC]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

That 2855 is a nice rig, and you can be proud of any boat that you keep in tip-top condition when maintaining it yourself. I find it bizarre how there are boat owners that only know how to turn the key & throttle up. Or maybe I'm jealous?

I haven't measured or drilled through the fiberglass near the seam line, but whenever I work on my 2252 on a sunny day I can tell how thin it is by how much sunlight is visible from inside. About 10" below the seam line there is no sunlight visible at all.

As for my concerns ... I'm assuming you want to make the entire deck height the same height as the seat bases, I would be concerned about the bench seat at the stern. The height of those seats would be the same height as the forward seats. The difference is no side protection or handles for passengers. The base of the bench seat would be close to level with the rear top cap of the boat. A good jolt would send your passengers flying. And it would look "weird" having the backrest of the bench seat being higher than the rear rail line, I'm not sure if that is USCG approved either. And not to mention the added difficulty to access & work on your motor.

Maybe you could make a split-level deck with a couple of steps going up to the forward seats? I know you're concerned about boarding, and a split-level deck wouldn't solve that problem. Maybe buy (or make) a boarding ladder, you could even put two of these back to back:

Amazon.com: PONTOON BOAT LADDERS BOARDING LADDER

Colin

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Colin, I had a feeling that the deck height in the aft area was your concern and it is a legitimate one. But as I
mentioned in post #61, the deck will have two levels.

The forward portion will be - roughly - as high as the sleeper seats base and it will have the width of the aft berth. The aft portion of the deck will be fabricated so that the distance from the gunnel to deck is - at least - as deep as it is in my 28. Hopefully this depth will be enough to clear the engine top so I can avoid rebuilding this ugly dog house.

Thanks for your feedback. I will make sure to measure the hull thickness at the deck level and beef it up with 1708 if needed to.

 

[LiquidC]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Sounds like a good plan ... make sure to take plenty of photos or videos.

Good luck!

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

I will make sure I document everything. Guys, quick question..
Does the effect of grinding degrade as the time passes before glassing over it?
In other words, if I finished grinding few months ago, can I still call it good and glass over it – after acetone the heck out of it, of course?

 

[dzausta]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Yacht Dr. On my re-build I'm thinking of grassing a form than spraying gelcoat. I will have to do that in 2 steps in order to get the glass flat before spraying. I was considering using wax on the last layer of my layup to get a good cure but after reading your post I'm not convinced wax is appropriate. What would you use patch aid? Would I achieve a good bond with GC layer?

My rebuild:
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ebuilt-project-cabin-deck-joint-525271-3.html

 

[dzausta]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Have u worked out how to make bent stringers ? If not I'm gonna find some links that might be useful.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Yacht Dr. On my re-build I'm thinking of grassing a form than spraying gelcoat. I will have to do that in 2 steps in order to get the glass flat before spraying. I was considering using wax on the last layer of my layup to get a good cure but after reading your post I'm not convinced wax is appropriate. What would you use patch aid? Would I achieve a good bond with GC layer?

My rebuild:
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ebuilt-project-cabin-deck-joint-525271-3.html

:noidea:

 

[dzausta]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

A bit late on the convo but I was referring to the topic on page 2 regarding effects of using wax in a layup.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Just in case someone still interested in helping and giving good advice, here is my question again..


Does the effect of grinding degrade as the time passes before glassing over it?
In other words, if I finished grinding few months ago, can I still call it good and glass over it – after acetone the heck out of it, of course?

 

[GWPSR]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

The grinding should have been to remove loose or friable material, as well as any coats of paint or other non resin materials. Provided you reached that state originally, it's still ground down. Although, it wouldn't hurt to give it a once-over visually and make sure you didn't miss any spots.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

If you have a R/O sander, I'd recommend hitting it with some 40 grit just to make sure any contamination is gone. Then as you say, Acetone the heck out of it and start Glassin':joyous:

 

[beech2000]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Hey DeepBlue,
Did you get your cruiser completed or at least some really good progress? You had asked about status on my little bilge repair. As you'll see zero progress here. LOL. Wife asking when we can go skiing. Warm weather here in Atlanta lately giving her the nags. Good nags though. How is your cruiser coming along?

 

[achris]

Re: Bayliner 2252 cruiser restoration

Hello beech2000,

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