baoting accident question.

[steve23guy]

hello, i am new to this forum of course.... now with one post
anywayz, im not a BOATER but a jer skier, kinda scared to post in here becuz of the hatred some boaters have for jet skiers..

now to my question.. on memorial day weekend i was on my PWC and driving along side a boat (on my right) i then decided to turn around and go back home, now, i did look before i turned, did not see a boat, but when i turned there was a baot RIGHT there passing me on my left.. well, long story short, he t-boned me, i woke up in the hospital with a broken knee, collar bone and head injurys, i was in icu for a while.
now, it is to my undrestanding that a boat Technicaly is supposed to signal when he is going to pass u, is this not correct? i had no idea he was right behind me..
I had a trial today, but it was messed up and we had to reschedule for the 11th, now, the guy on the boat stated, he was in a hurry, and i was going to slow for him.. and he had a party to go to, so he wnt to pass me, i was doing about 30, he was about 55 he said... so he went to go around to the left (port) and when he did that i turned not seeing him..
he never blew his horn twice as i read in the boating rules..
I was given a ticket for careless operation of a watercraft, and like i said im fighting it in court. ont he 11th with my attorny, just wondering.. am i right when i say he was supposed to signal techincaly? cuz if he would have, i would have been able to acknowlage hs presence and would have never turned till after he passed me..
Thanks in advance.
Steve

 

[xtraham]

Re: baoting accident question.

yes a horn is supposed to be sounded as to which side to overtake a vessel, and the overtaken vessel is to answer with a horn, but on the other side of this coin an overtaken vessel is to hold its course until completely overtaken...and until all is clear

 

[Silvertip]

Re: baoting accident question.

Basically you have it right. A passing vessel must signal. However, I think how the court will rule is that although the passing vessel can be ticketed for failing to signal, you are still responsible for operation of your vessel. If you are in a car making a left turn you need to check your mirror to make sure you are not being passed. Just because the guy didn't signal does not make you less responsible. You simply can't make turns without looking. I realize that's not what you want to hear but that's probably how it will come down. I travel lots of big water and see boaters and jet skiers doing this all the time. Scary.

 

[QC]

Re: baoting accident question.

It is my opinion that the other boater was primarily responsible. Since you were being overtaken, the other boater was the Give-way and you were the Stand-on. The lack of a signal on your part does not change that:

Give-way vessel: The vessel that is required to take early and substantial action to keep well away from other vessels by stopping, slowing down, or changing course. Avoid crossing in front of other vessels. Any change of course and/or speed should be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel. (A series of small changes should be avoided)

Stand-on vessel: The vessel that must maintain its course and speed unless it becomes apparent that the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action. If you must take action, do not turn toward the give-way vessel or cross in front of it.

Again, he had "primary" responsibility, but you as the "Stand-on" vessel also had the responsibility to maintain your course.

I am sure others will chime in despite your status as a Jet Flea operator 8) BTW, welcome to iboats!!!

 

[xtraham]

Re: baoting accident question.

if the judge has a boat you are screwed, sorry

 

[QC]

Re: baoting accident question.

LOL @ xtraham

 

[zuke1]

Re: baoting accident question.

i agree... if the judge has a boat, you might as well sell the house, cuz you probably gonna be buying someone a new boat....

and if the judge has a bass boat, your even worse off...

cuz any angler thats ever taken water over the bow because of a PWC or a wake boarder will probably allready have a bad attitude towards PWC'rs right off the bat.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: boating accident question.

Re: boating accident question.

You were the stand on vessel and by failing to maintain course, horn or not, you are in the wrong. You did after all turn in front of him. Responsibility for your vessel is what it's all about, regardless of others intended actions...Granted, if following the coast guard rules, he should have signaled. But on a lake, I've never heard anyone signal when passing. Might find you were both at fault...

 

[Texasmark]

Re: baoting accident question.

Besides, with all that has been said, when is the last time that you were running at 30+ to 55 mph and could hear the horn of an overtaking vessel above the sound of water and your engine? Probably don't remember. The R of the R are great for ocean liners with big steam driven horns, in a harbor where they are doing 5 knots.

And on the likes or dislikes of boaters for PWC's and their operators..........you, as a class made your bed and you can sleep in it.......PWC's are the demise of the boating industry. You can't fish as long as one is anywhere around you, or has been anywhere around you.

They, as a class have absolutely no respect for anyone else on the water, period.....period; and completely ruin what used to be a fabulous sport for the whole family, and are the main reason I sold my boat 10 years ago when they became popular......and when one buzzes you and you flip him the bird, he is so stupid that he comes over (while you are still trying to fish) and asks you "what did you do that for?". :devil: :devil: :devil:

My 2c.

Mark

 

[bjcsc]

Re: baoting accident question.

Steve:
What state and what waterway were you boating in? What is going on in court, i.e is this just you fighting the ticket? Have you already entered a plea or was the case continued prior to beginning? I can't imagine that we can give you any advice better than your attorney's but here are a few things I would check/consider:
1) Speed limits, if any, on the waterway you were on
2) Exhaustive search on the rules and regs in your state or on the specific waterway involved
3) Consider pleading nolo if you can't find anything that will give you reasonable expectation of winning as being found guilty will serve you up on a silver platter for a civil suit (ask your atty about this)
4) If you don't plead nolo, consider asking for a jury trial. If you don't have insurance you could be facing a considerable amount of liability. You need to be thinking about how to limit it. If you can't win, do everything you can to stretch the case out, continuances, etc.. The only witness is the other driver (right?) and if you are smart enough not to testify against yourself and the other driver doesn't show your case will be dismissed (unless what you said in your post is already on the record). The more times the date changes, the better the chances are that the other driver will get tired of appearing or forget. Time to dance the dance...

PS. I don't have anything against PWCs. Take the criticism with a grain of salt. There are a bunch of idiots on the water and percentage wise, there are as many or more in boats than on PWCs...

 

[boatingbob]

Re: baoting accident question.

My only Question is why where all 3 of you so close together? I mean there is a whole lake, Up here in Ontario I can be on the lake with 20 other boats and never cross paths with one all day. The other point I'd like to make is that PWC have there time and place, I quite enjoy riding a seadoo once and awhile, but no good for fishing. Pretty noisy too. As far as legal issues go, in a car if this where to happen it would be 90% the fault of the person behind you and 10% your fault.

 

[tmh]

Re: baoting accident question.

I own both a boat and a PWC and use them both for family fun. Mark your rant kinda makes me laugh. Fishermen that hog an entire small lake for 6 or 8 of them to "fish peacefully" are some of the least curteous folks on the water (I put you in that "class" as you did to all the PWC guys). There is plemty of water out there for everyone if they show common courtesy and ride/drive/siat and fish safely.

That said, as soon as Steve said he was "riding along side a boat", I knew the next thing to happen would be BAD. My rule of thumb on the PWC 9especially when kids are on with me whih is usually) is go out early, on weekdays, or whenever the crowds aren't out! As soon as it's at all crowded, we're out of there. Why? Because "who's in the right" doesn't trump the fact that a small, open PWC going 50 mph ALWAYS loses in a collision! Riding near another vessel is just plain stupid.

And yes, lots stupid PWC riders out ther - but lots of stupid boaters also.

 

[imported_RJ]

Re: baoting accident question.

Sorry to say but you still failed to "stand on" or maintain your course. As others have said the boat could be cited for failure to signal but, they will still find you at fault. Kind of like if you in a car & get in an accident because someone failed to or falsly signaled, your still at fault for "failing to yield the right of way" sucks but it 's the way it is. Here in Ohio it technically is still a law that you have to signal by sounding your horn when passing another vehicle on a 2 lane road. LOL ya like that happens!

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: baoting accident question.

You turned left. You are cooked. If you would have turned right and you got hit, you would have got a case.

 

[steve23guy]

Re: baoting accident question.

no no no, what im saying is, he was right behind me, and decided to pass, i understand the standby vessles job.. BUT. if i would have known he was there, and was going to pass, i would not have turned. i would have let him pass..... he was in a hurry and went to go around, i looked, and when i did he wasnt there, i made my sharp turn as he was making his pass.. and WHAM.....

 

[steve23guy]

Re: baoting accident question.

ALso, this was on a river, thats why we were all so close.... it was actualy just the 2 of us, me and the other boater, i was about 30 feet to his left.... and the other boat came up to about as close as 40 feet behind and then turned to pass me, like i said i was never aware of his presence, im not linda blair i cant see directly behind me....

 

[bjcsc]

Re: baoting accident question.

Answer some of my questions and I can try to help you...

 

[steve23guy]

Re: baoting accident question.

Its illinois, it was on the fox river, Ive already pled not guilty, had a semi trial yesterday, it ended up being a mis trial due to an error in the paper work (long story) but anyway, i have the guy that was on my right that pulled me out of the water, *i was knocked out* saying that i was driving steady with him about 30 feet away, and the other guy (boat driver) was obviously behind us..
The man states in his police report that he was in a hurry and we were going to slow for him, and that he had a party to go 2 with the 5 other people on his boat, thats why he passed....
there is no speed limit on the fox river.

here is the link for the rules of boating for my state about over taking and signaling.. Again, i know i was the stand on, and if i knew i was being passed, i would of held my course, the fact is, i had no idea he was there at all.. i looked, when i looked he wasnt there, the accident took about a whole 1/4 second, he was about 15 feet to my left while passing.. i had no clue.. when i turned i saw him, but it was then too late, i tried to correct but the water was choppy and i just skipped right infront of him.

http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/...HPSESSID=4fc62ef87ee52c1f7c3e7bde0f152a83#mee

 

[bjcsc]

Re: baoting accident question.

OK, have a look at this. Under "Operation of Boats" read sections A, B, and E.:<p><A href="http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Boats/pdf/Boat_Digest_06.pdf"> IL DNR Regs</A><A ""></A><p>

SectionA: argument: Surely 55mph within 15 feet (unbelievable!) is not considered safe. If he had not hit you, what would his wake have done to you?<p>

SectionB: Certainly he was unreasonably and unnecessarily close!<p>

SectionE: Self-explanatory<p>

Here's the link directly to IL regs:<A href="http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1826&ChapAct=625%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B45%2F&ChapterID=49&ChapterName=VEHICLES&ActName=Boat+Registration+and+Safety+Act%2E/"> IL State Regs</A><p>

My opinion differs from most on this thread. I don't find it reasonable to be overtaken within 15' of my boat at 55mph. That's the reason the accident happened. You turning is barely relevant. IMO, he was the one operating carelessly. Did any LEO's do a breathalizer test on either one of you after the accident?

 

[bjcsc]

Re: baoting accident question.

Support from Coast Guard Regulations:

Safe Speed:http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule06.htm

Overtaking (esp. "D") :http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule13.htm

Action by Give-way/stand-on:http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule1617.htm

Notice "D": Nothing relieves the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way...

Preference is given to the stand-on vessel because it can be seen by the give-way in an overtaking situation. According to the USCG, whether or not you (the stand-on) do what you should (maintain course/speed) the give-way (the other guy) still has an obligation to stay clear of you.