Are you really a liberal?

[lakelivin]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> ...You are a liberal if you think the government can run your life better than you can.<br /><br />Ken

lol, where does that leave the Republican party given it's recent stance on issues like federal vs. states rights w.r.t. things like medical marijuana, gay marriage, end of life issues, etc. ?

 

[jtexas]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

lakelivin...good analysis.<br /><br />JB...ah, so! I read too narrowly sometimes.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

I think this is a troll.

 

[PW2]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

JB,<br /><br />I agree that no one is a "pure" anything. And I did understand that your "definitions" were somewhat tongue in cheek, as were my modifications.<br /><br />I only claim they were instructive, and not necessarily completely accurate.<br /><br />As far as answering the original, it is a slanted loaded survey, and doesn't warrant a response. I thought about rephrasing them to load them in a different direction, but it would simply take too much time and effort, and I tire easily.

 

[QC]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

LL,<br /><br />Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You make a compelling case, but I think it sidesteps the discussion intended by the questionaire. There ARE powerful lobbies that feel exactly as the questionaire stated on some of those issues. There are MANY people that believe that the Death Penalty in any fashion is wrong and VERY many that believe any restriction of abortion is unacceptable.<br /><br />I will say that I am 100% convinced that the Israelis are acting morally by defending themselves against people that have openly and often stated that Israel has no right to exist and should be destroyed. I am also 100% convinced that it is immoral to promote, reward and celebrate suicide bombings of innocent people going about their daily business. How can that not be clear to a rational human?

 

[theriver]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Spud:<br />"Ya, there free loaders, they enjoy the proctection and freedoms from my tax money spent on defense, but it is assumed by them that there is not threat to their arrogant lives."<br /><br />Who's arrogant? Perhaps you should look outside Utah for a moment at the world around you.<br /><br /> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe..._Katrina_canadian_taskforce050911/?hub=Canada

 

[DJ]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Pure? Excuse me? <br /><br />I am a PURE conservative. <br /><br />What liberals cannot understand is that we actually have hearts and compassions. In most cases bigger than those "self proclaimed", "caring" ones.<br /><br />Liberals love labels. Conservatives love people.<br /><br />There is one thing I could never understand. Why people recoil over a church giving them a freebie but rejoice at the government doing it.<br /><br />Church/Belief is a choice. GOVERNMENT IS NOT!

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Originally posted by pjc:<br /> Profile for mrbscott19 <br />Member Status: Chief Petty Officer <br />Member Number: 41577 <br />Registered: May 19, 2004 <br />Posts: 434 <br />Location: Illinois <br />Occupation: Data Tech <br />Interests: fishing <br />Types of Engines You've Run: '68 Evinrude 85hp <br />Names of Your Boats: A Fascist iboats sucks!!! <br />Favorite Fishing Hole/Spot: Clinton Lake <br />'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''<br /><br />interesting boat name.....and fishing hole.....

You must really have nothing to do all day. This is the second you've posted my profile info in an attempt to make me look bad, or ridicule me or whatever. I'm proud of everything on my profile. They're free for anyone to look at, so why do you continue to post mine out in the open like you do? You know why I put that as my boat name? Because I posted an article from The Onion(a purely humorous site) and it was zapped because, well I'm not sure why. Some people found it offensive that the Middle East could ever be a democracy I guess. And then, I had my ability to use an avatar revoked not a week later because I used dogbert saying my favorite line from all of Dilbert as an avatar. I've posted the pic in another thread and nobody said a thing about it.....so why did my privileges get revoked? It's only offensive to stupid people. Must've been alot of people here complaining. I have been picked on and ridiculed since I started posting here, and except for the very beginning, I have been as respectful as possible(ok, ok, I've only been as respectful as everyone else) while posting. And for the record, Clinton is a real lake. It is located right outside of Clinton, IL. It's sole purpose is to cool down the nuclear power plant that sits on it. So I would appreciate it if you'd quit posting my profile in open threads like you do. I'd almost bet money that I'd get banned for doing the same thing. But then again, I'm not one of the good 'ole boys. So I understand.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Originally posted by DJ:<br /> Pure? Excuse me? <br /><br />I am a PURE conservative. <br /><br />What liberals cannot understand is that we actually have hearts and compassions. In most cases bigger than those "self proclaimed", "caring" ones.<br /><br />Liberals love labels. Conservatives love people.<br /><br />There is one thing I could never understand. Why people recoil over a church giving them a freebie but rejoice at the government doing it.<br /><br />Church/Belief is a choice. GOVERNMENT IS NOT!

Liberals love labels, yet you're the one labeling everything. Gotcha....

 

[DJ]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

bscott,<br /><br />Nope, I figured it out. You're just reversing/ changing direction as liberals always do.<br /><br />If George Carlin is your savior, God help you. A nastier more self defeating individual cannot exist beside him.<br /><br />Be well.

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

theriver<br />sorry I've been a little busy, but I wanted to get back to you on Canada.<br /><br />I understand the point that on your side of the Isle, other countries and nations are displeased with the US, I beg to differ. Who do they go to for help. Also I don't really care about what the UK, France and Germany think right now, because in times of trouble, we will get back together and be solid again.<br /><br />I can't win you over with elegent points of fact, because it is a belief of yours, and you can back it up with some comentary by our media, witch of course is on your side.<br /><br />I think some of the positions we have taken are unpopular with the world, because the US has decided to stand up against what I believe is right. I already know what your gonna say about Irag and the whole thing so you don't have to fire back with that.<br /><br />I think your on the liberal side and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. So I am agreeing to disagree and try to bury the hatchet.<br /><br />Canada is a country of pro liberal views and I also will say I understand that you will defend her to no end. But some facts still remain, their economy, rising crime, taxation, health care mess and so on. Plus any encounter I have had with any Canadian, left me to think that their all arrogant liberals, that see through your eyes, not mine. I also realize that I have over generalized about that point. <br /><br />Last point,<br />Yes I do live in Utah, my parents brought me here. It has a stigma, that were all wacko mormons, and live in our sheltered world. I do agree that their are tons of folks here that like that stigma, and try to live their lives that way, (in the world but not of it) agian I can't argue about that either. Have you been to Utah, things are changing and the state in the metro areas is quite worldly and liberal. Check out the mayor of Salt Lake City. <br /><br />I do travel a lot and also have lived in CA, so my eyes are open as to what is going on.<br /><br />I went to the UK this spring, and I agree, Bush is not very popular, infact we missed our flight coming back because of demonstrations that locked up London, cost me about 4K to get new tickets home.<br /><br />Any way, thanks for your responses<br /><br />Spud

 

[pjc]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Am aware that Clinton Lake is real. Clinton Lake You mrbscott made an assumption that you sir were incorrect about.<br /><br />Regarding posts or images being zapped, that is what mods do if in their judgment same are not appropriate. No explanation is needed imo.<br /><br />Your choice of boat name in your profile is disrespectful to iboats, my opinion only sir. And I believe it is there for the purpose of imparting a veiled shot at iboats. As you stated, you created that name due to the iboats mod(s) removing posts/images. Vengeful imo, and immature as well.

 

[theriver]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Hi Spud,<br /><br />Like it or not, Canada is our largest trading partner. In fact, the trading relationship between Canada and the US is the largest in the world. The US sells about $200 Billion/year of goods and services to Canada and Canada sells about $250 Billion/year to the US. <br /><br />They are our best friend and ally, that's why I take exception to slandering them. Just because you had a bad experience with a college room mate doesn't mean its fair to condemn a nation.<br /><br />One could stumble on this site randomly on a bad day and based on the diatribe think Americans were a real piece of work! It wouldn't be a direct reflection of a cross section of its citizens, so it would be unfair to generalize. Agreed?<br /><br />I'm not sure where you get your financial stats, but our economy is just teetering on the rim of the toilet seat. The Canadian stock exchange has surpassed the NYSE. It is very vibrant there. That portion of my stock portfolio is doing the best of all.<br /><br />Why do you think I'm in the UK? I'm not.<br /><br />I've driven thru all the Western states including Utah from South to North. Seemed OK. I couldn't live there either, but have nothing against or its people.<br /><br />Have you driven across Canada? I have (twice).<br /><br />Take Care.

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Again, I will give the facts about Canada and trade ect, Mexico is a huge trading partner with the US as well. Doesn't mean I hate either Canada or Mexico.<br /><br />Traveled only in the BC Province and some in Alberta, I do know a little about Canada. <br /><br />The western side is a complete difference than Quebec or the French Provinces' (sp). similar to the US. West being more Conservative , East more Liberal<br /><br />I differ with your assessmnet of the US economy, a least here in the West, things are going quite well, in fact I thought the Economy is so red hot that this is the reason cited to raise the fed rate bla bla bla.<br /><br />So we live and view the world with different glasses. <br /><br />My only knocks against Canada, and am scared about following them, is mainly their health care system, and their gun control laws, and following tax rates. I pay lots of $$ in taxes and don't want to have any increases. I guess still from my own point of view. <br />I like Canada, it is a nice place, beauty ect but I don't want to be like them or live there which I don't and won't ever.<br /><br />I don't know where your from, and it doesn't matter, we were raised quite different, and I was schooled in the intermountain area, Utah State ect, and those factors had led me to the conservative positions that I have, I am not middle of the road but I am not full of hate for Bush and this country, as would seem your side is doing latly, and I have my opinion about Canada.<br /><br />You said something that really makes the difference between us, you are concerned about someone reading my thoughts about Canada, but , there only my thoughts and opinions and don't care who reads this. I am open to any dicussion about my opinion 'cause its mine, not the republican party on people in Utah, or people in the US. Are you afraid to have someone dislike you because you have formed and opinion about their way of life or their government. Have you been to Denmark or countries like Sweden, gee I have an opinion about those countries as well, Their beautiful places, but socialism has destroyed the social system there, and I can say what I want about it.<br /><br />Oh well,<br />from a wacko in Utah, who isn't privy to knowledge

 

[theriver]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

I can only speak about what I know.<br />The US, Canada and Iraq are front and centre for me.<br />You are off base on a few item which I have vast knowledge on, but I'll let it die.<br /><br />Out.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Originally posted by Quietcat:<br /> LL,<br /><br />Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You make a compelling case, but I think it sidesteps the discussion intended by the questionaire. There ARE powerful lobbies that feel exactly as the questionaire stated on some of those issues. There are MANY people that believe that the Death Penalty in any fashion is wrong and VERY many that believe any restriction of abortion is unacceptable. <br /><br />Response: I agree with you that there are those who woulld hold that the death penalty is unethical in any circumstance. <br /><br />I don't believe that thre are many who honestly believe that ANY restiriction on abortion is unacceptable. Do you really think that there are a large number of people who would agree that an elective abortion to a healthy fetus at just shy of 9 months, and with no health risks to the mother involved, is moral? I doubt it, although there may be those who might argue against any restrictions because they believe that if they don't it will open a crack and provide an advantage to those that believe and are fighting for a COMPLETE restriction on abortion, regardless of the circumstances. Kind of similar to the principle behind some extremist NRA members views on gun issues.<br /><br /><br />I will say that I am 100% convinced that the Israelis are acting morally by defending themselves against people that have openly and often stated that Israel has no right to exist and should be destroyed. I am also 100% convinced that it is immoral to promote, reward and celebrate suicide bombings of innocent people going about their daily business. How can that not be clear to a rational human? <br /><br />Response: I couldn't agree with you more that Isreal has the right to defend itself. I condemn to the highest extent possible any attacks (suicide bombing or other) on innocent civilians. I also condemn those who might encourage, reward or celebrate such actions. My point is that it is counterproductive to focus on only one side of the conflict. Israeli transgressions are rarely reported in the Western press. <br /><br />The Palestinians in Gaza and The West Bank are basically refugees in a territory occupied by Israel who have long been subjugated to treatment that would tend to encourage violence in almost any population. I'm talking about things like Isreals bulldozing thousands of homes, both as punisment for Palestininan atrocities like suicide bombing as well as for 'land grabs' to establish Israeli settlements within the Palestinian regions. <br /><br />Some may view bulldozing hundreds of homes in retalitaion for a suicide bombing as 'just', and if it affected just those behind the violence, I'd agree. But of course that degree of precision isn't possible, so what kind of attitude will result in the large proportion of people who had nothing to do with the original act but who then found themselves homless? And what about having ones home & land (which had been in the family for generations) arbitrarily confiscated in order to create a new Jewish settlement in the middle of a Palestinian area? <br /><br />I'd argue that the settlements represent not only an Israeli attitude that the Palestininians have no right to exist in the ocupied territory, but an actual long term plan to drive them out. I'd also point oout that this thinking appears to have changed, with most Israelis realizing that it will not work and that the only solution lies in an autonomous Palestinian state. I've heard a number of Palestinians leaders state that they recognize Isrel's right to exist, although there are certainly certain Palestinian terrorist groups who would beg to differ. <br /><br />I have little doubt that Palestinians are subjected to degradation and hardships on a daily basis. Below are some links to illustrate, just a few examples. I've also heard Israeli soldiers talk about refusing to serve (in spite of the punishment they knew they would incur) because their consciences wouldn't allow them to continue to participate in the abusive and degrading method with which the Israeli Army dealt with Palestinians in general. I've heard of cases where Palestinians who needed emergency medical help have died in checkpoint lines because the only medical treatment available was on the other side of the checkpoint and no accomodation was made to get them through quickly. Althugh crimes by Palestinians against Jewish settlers are harshly punished, it's recognized that crimes committed by Jewish settlers against Palestinians are rarely prosecuted. And some of the most extreme Jewish settlers appear to be not too far behind the Palestinian terrorists on the 'whacko scale' (although they are certainly more intelligent; they aren't blowing themselves up in order to damage the enemy and concurrently reap the bounty of 70 some odd virgins in the afterlife).<br /><br /> http://www.counterpunch.org/christison02192005.html <br /><br /> http://207.70.82.73/ra/251.ram (audio file, approx 56 minutes long: listen to Act II, 21 minutes long, it begins approx. 20 minutes into the program). <br /><br />Please note that I repeat my revulsion and condemnation of Palestinian violence such as suicide bombings and do NOT side exclusively or even as a majority with the Palestinian cause. I'm only relaying a portion of the Palestinian perspective because it is rarely covered in the US press.<br /><br />Amd I'm doing so to explain my point about the uselessness of a question that attempts to apportion blame between the two parties as a black and white issue, with one side being 'right' and the other side being 'wrong'. If both sides are doing things to create an environment that fosters violence, then what good does it do to restrict the question to one of "Who is more wrong"? Unless ALL transgressions are addressed there remains little chance of a solution.<br />

 

[txswinner]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

I love it, but when the heat gets up we here the anti-abortion crowd throw out the PRO ABORTION, I can honestly say I have never met anyone who is for Abortion. The question is choice. The confusion is conservatives claim they want less government control of personal freedoms but then turn 180 degrees to want the government to control the choice. Sure makes it confusing.

 

[pjc]

Re: Are you really a liberal?

Abortion rights, and use of the abortion tools....ahhhhhhh, consider txswinner if your parents chose abortion for convenience or to select the "perfect" child. I am merely illustrating that the pro abortion rights faction are OK with the murder of unborn children, 'till they are asked if it would be OK if their folks would have chosen to kill them, their known relatives, their mothers, fathers, friends. <br /><br />Chew on that thought for a spell.