are ya's for bush's ssi plan

[crab bait]

or not..??

 

[all thumbs]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

not.

 

[Realgun]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

YES YES YES<br /><br /><br />YES AGAIN YES!<br /><br /><br />Bunch of old geezers get what they deserve and the younguns when they get to be older get thiers too. <br /><br />Some people are just plain ignorant too SS is not in as much of a bind as Medicaid/Midicare.

 

[BLU LUNCH]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Did I miss something .......Barney was on........

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

bush is an idiot. <br /><br />no no no

 

[snapperbait]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Don't care.. <br /><br />I'm planning on ssi not being there when i'm old and grey, if i live that long.. <br /><br />King george II, Queen hillary (your next commander in chief, don't say i did'nt warn ya's), and all the political suckeys and lackies to come, will be re-hashing this junk for years and years and only further complicating matters.. Nothing will ever be "fixed".....

 

[roscoe]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

I like parts of the plan, but feel it will leave many out in the cold.<br />Those around 45 years of age will be expected to pay a higher percentage, wait longer to get benifits, get lower benefits, and/or put money into the private accounts to make up for the lowered benefits, perhaps they will be hit with all 4 of the above.<br /><br />Seems impossible to swallow for someone barely making ends meet on a $12 an hour job.<br /><br />But something has to be done. The latest means testing proposals seem to make the most sense. But the rich will find a way to shelter/hide all their assets so they can collect SS.<br /><br />Personally, I would start by kicking the senators and congressmen out of their golden egg retirement funds, and boot them out of SS if they have over a million in assets. There is absolutely no reason for these guys to make 100 grand a year for the rest of their lives. I know, its purely symbolic, but we have to start somewhere.

 

[aspeck]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Don't get a whole lot of news on what is planned, but what I hear I like.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Sadly, I don't think the answer will happen in the next four years....maybe more.

 

[rolmops]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Sounds like a great plan to you??<br />All the social security money is being used currently by the US government to pay for American needs in America.<br />Under the Bush plan, this money will be invested in big companies.These companies will take this money and start building huge new facilities in China or India,thereby causing more unemployment and less social security income in America.Investment companies like Swaab and such will make billions on commissions and the only losers will be....,you guessed it. <br />Social Security is a savings plan that has saved the government untold billions of dollars because it was always there in a huge fund to borrow from, instead of having to increase federal debt.Make the ssi piggybank smaller and much more money will have to be generated by taxes to pay for federal debt caused by now much larger federal deficits.<br />You might want to look at social security as the very low interest loan we all give to the federal government as a patriotic act,and we are repaid for this loan when we become senior citizens.<br />The short fall in social security money would evaporate and overnight turn into a huge surplus if the federal government would pay open market interest rates for the money they borrow out of the social security funds and currently do not pay interest on in any way.

 

[PW2]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Bush's plan, if that is what it is, will do nothing to solve the solvency issue. Only reduced benefits or increased revenue can possibly do that. Individual private accounts have to be designed to reduce the guaranteed benefit--Otherwise, what is the point of them?<br /><br />Here's a modest proposal. Instead of calling it a retirement plan, which it isn't, let's call it what it is, which is an insurance plan. How do insurance companies, who deal with actuarial tables all the time, deal with this issue? Simple. They take the premiums they collect, pool them into a fund, and hire a professional money manager to invest them--get an average of say 15 % ROR. That is a heck of a lot better return than what Bush calls the worthless IOU's we currently have, and eliminates the individual risk, plus the cost of administering all those millions of individual accounts. In this way, we can increase revenue without increasing taxes, and completely solve the solvency issue while guaranteeing benefit payments.<br /><br />It will still cost a ton of money up front to fund this initially--you have to at least make good on the worthless IOU's--that is no different than the funding of individual accounts, but it eliminates any individual risk involved--which is what insurance plans are supposed to do in the first place...

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> Sounds like a great plan to you??<br />All the social security money is being used currently by the US government to pay for American needs in America.<br />Under the Bush plan, this money will be invested in big companies.These companies will take this money and start building huge new facilities in China or India,thereby causing more unemployment and less social security income in America.Investment companies like Swaab and such will make billions on commissions and the only losers will be....,you guessed it. <br />Social Security is a savings plan that has saved the government untold billions of dollars because it was always there in a huge fund to borrow from, instead of having to increase federal debt.Make the ssi piggybank smaller and much more money will have to be generated by taxes to pay for federal debt caused by now much larger federal deficits.<br />You might want to look at social security as the very low interest loan we all give to the federal government as a patriotic act,and we are repaid for this loan when we become senior citizens.<br />The short fall in social security money would evaporate and overnight turn into a huge surplus if the federal government would pay open market interest rates for the money they borrow out of the social security funds and currently do not pay interest on in any way.

Only a small portion of YOUR tax dollars would go into individual retirement accounts, and ONLY if you choose. No one is talking about forcing you to invest.

 

[JB]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

I don't like it. . .either part of it, and I am a GW Bush conservative.<br /><br />One thing I do like is what he said about it guaranteeing that nobody retires into poverty. In my view that is SS's reason for being.<br /><br />I had substantial "investment" savings when I retired at 62. By the time I turned 65 and was eligible for Medicare, health problems and the post-dotcom crash had reduced me to about 20% of what I had in 1997. The only exception is my real estate which generates little income and lots of taxes.<br /><br />I need SS to stay out of poverty, and I think that qualifies me to evaluate the "plan" from personal experience.<br /><br />I think the "trust fund" is a bad idea altogether. That wasn't his idea and it needs to be stopped.<br /><br />If a worker doesn't have access to 401K there are still IRAs and other tax sheltered investments like home and real estate ownership. The "personal investment plan" would be redundant, divert funds from paying benefits to current retirees and put low income workers at risk just like I was. Worse, if they used it and the market didn't grow they would be stuck with reduced SS benefits. That doesn't guarantee protection from poverty. My maternal grandfather was a very rich man in 1928 but ended his days supported by his children.<br /><br />Indexing benefits based on income AFTER retirement is, I think a good idea. I thought that is what GW was proposing the other night, but it seems to be different.... cutting your benefits based on what you made before retirement. That sucks.<br /><br />We need to identify SS as an insurance plan to protect retirees from poverty and drop the pretense that it is a retirement plan. <br /><br />Reduce benefits? Yes and no. If you don't need it you don't get it, but if you need it you get more.<br /><br />Increase the tax? Yes and no. Yes, tax all income, and No, reduce the tax rate to what is needed to pay current benefits. No "trust fund" for the Congress to raid.<br /><br />That's my $.02

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> Bush's plan, if that is what it is, will do nothing to solve the solvency issue. Only reduced benefits or increased revenue can possibly do that.

You don't sound very familiar with the plan. The whole point of it is to reduce benefits as income goes up. Even republicans agree that, if you make 100K a year, you don't need as much SSI.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

at 100 K a year ya really should not need SSI at all. but only the weathly will be able to shelter their funds and still recieve SSI. as the laws are written by lawyers they seem to always leave loopholes that will benifit them personally in later years. I dont like the plan at all. I tend to agree with snapper, it aint gonna be there when I get there so I am not planning on it.but there will be much gnshing of teeth on both party sides for years to come. of that I can rest well at night.<br /> I to have many relatives that thought they would never need SSI. come to find out they do. most times it was due to a large catastrophic medical bill from a spouse's illness. totally wiped them out but they live for 15 years more.

 

[beniam]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Soo... first we give better tax breaks to millionaires.....<br />Then we tax the middle class.....<br />and give less retirement SS money to the working poor.......<br />Lets see if I get it......<br />Huh....Batavier

 

[crab bait]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

like what you said ROSCOE..<br /><br />i personally don't know.. but all i do know is that $ 92.73 is taken from my check ever week for ssi.. <br /><br />an as things are ,, mite not/good chance never see a dime back outta it..an they keep pumpin' the age up.. maybe i'll be eligble for ssi ( if any ) at 89 1/2..<br /><br /><br />these are my questions;;<br /><br />what rate of return is on the ssi money right now..??<br /><br />how much of the 92.73 can i invest..??<br /><br />an in what/how many investment options are there for me..?

 

[fixin]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

President George W. Bush's plan to privatize Social Security will force drastic cuts in retirement benefits for America’s workers—whether or not they choose to take part in the scheme.<br /><br />Privatizing Social Security Will:<br /> <br />1. Slash guaranteed benefits as much as $152,000. <br />2. Take away 70 cents in retirement benefits for every $1 in a private account and return the money to government coffers.<br />3. Prohibit you from controlling the money in your private accounts. Politicians will pick Wall Street firms to control your investment accounts, a process corrupted by politics.<br />4. Saddle our children with $4.9 trillion in debt over the next 20 years alone, most of which we would owe to foreign countries.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

I wish I wasn't so ignorant about this issue. Born after 1950, been paying the tax since I joined the workforce at 18. I do know if I and many others don't get anything for our efforts in paying tax would equal a situation of taxation without representation. Isn't this againt our constitutional rights? A class action lawsuit of that magnitude against our government would be very destructive.<br /><br />Money spent on investigators would save millions on catching those that are frauding the system. Then what really sucks is those that really need it, can't get it because they don't lie about their problems. Forgive me, I gotta quit, my blood pressure is going to high again......

 

[PW2]

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

I'm not particularly familiar with the plan mostly because I didn't really hear a plan, and what I did hear made absolutely no sense to me.<br /><br />And I don't understand the $100k provision. If you are currently making $100k you are not eligible anyway. Presumably you are retired and no longer making that kind of money. And why then should you not be eligible?<br /><br />If you have investments that are returning that kind of return annually, that's fine but that would take a portfolio of a million or more, properly invested, to generate that kind of income. How many have that?<br /><br />Bottom line is that the "crisis" in social security is that it is not properly funded, nor is the mythical "trust fund" returning any kind of return.<br /><br />You can only solve this "crisis" by decreasing outflow or increasing revenue--private accounts only are helpful to the extent they allow the government to decrease guaranteed benefits.<br /><br />My plan, as i laid out, shows a method of increasing revenue without increasing taxes.<br /><br />But as JB pointed out, it ain't free.<br /><br />And Bush accurately stated, the "trust fund" does not exist, and has/is already being spent by Congress, and consists solely of IOU's.