Almost took a life Saturday

[delirious]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

welcome to my neck of the woods...owen sound here wonka67

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Agreed. I obtained umbrella coverage a couple years ago and was amazed at how little it added to my premium total, but what really amazed me was how under-insured I really was. I had comprehensive coverage, but we had to increase all my liability limits before I was even eligible for the umbrella. I highly recommend it, especially if you pull skiers, boarders, tubers, etc.

Also you should have umbrella if you take out a lot of inexperienced boaters, children, and especially groups like scouts, church youth groups, etc. Relatives are bad enough but if a non-relative's child is hurt on your watch, regardless of fault, grab your socks.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Also you should have umbrella if you take out a lot of inexperienced boaters, children, and especially groups like scouts, church youth groups, etc. Relatives are bad enough but if a non-relative's child is hurt on your watch, regardless of fault, grab your socks.

Yep.

 

[jfried]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Really interesting read / thread on the opinions...

To me...the specific language of the law is less important, as home cookin' said, the best approach is to not put yourself in a situation where the law is a factor.

It always takes 2 to cause an accident. Yes, the Kayakers' were legally out of place by being out at night without markings... but that doesn't absolve scrit9mm from responsibility. He'd be equally at fault, for operating his vessel at a speed in conditions which he was incapable of spotting a hazard and avoiding it. The mph number is irrelevant, but when you come within 5 feet of a hazard that you don't see until you've passed it, there is a combination of speed, visibility, and driver ability that made him dangerous. Speed of course is what the driver has greatest control over.

The simple fact is -- the kayaker's shouldn't have been out at night, and scrit9mm shouldn't have been operating his boat at a speed which allows him to nearly hit an obstacle in the water without seeing it. The water, just like life, is full of idiots, you don't cross the street without looking both ways just because the walk light is on, do you?

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

The simple fact is -- the kayaker's shouldn't have been out at night, and scrit9mm shouldn't have been operating his boat at a speed which allows him to nearly hit an obstacle in the water without seeing it. The water, just like life, is full of idiots, you don't cross the street without looking both ways just because the walk light is on, do you?

So do you drive slower on a dark, unlit interstate because someone might try to walk across it where they are not supposed to ?

If they did, stepped off of the dark shoulder... you were driving at or under the speed limit and hit them, would you be at fault???

No!!! and neither would the O/P be at fault! :facepalm:

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Was in Malaysia for the last week and a half. Was at a harbor in Kota Kinabalu. Saw a 20' boat going around 20 MPH at night just offshore. Ran into an anchored rowboat and totally obliterated the wood row boat. Fortunately for the driver of the 20' boat the row boat was not large. There was quite a bit of light from onshore but he never saw it.

I immediately thought of this thread.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

I have often thought of this thread as well. As i stated earlier we are out past dark nearly every time we go out.

I think of it when i decide when and where to throw anchor, and when i turn my lights on just before it gets dark.

I also thought of it when i saw the water police stopping a boat full of idiots tubing at 30 mph after dark! The individuals getting out of the tube appeared to be kids. Looked that way trough my binoculars anyway.:facepalm:

 

[jfried]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

So do you drive slower on a dark, unlit interstate because someone might try to walk across it where they are not supposed to ?

If they did, stepped off of the dark shoulder... you were driving at or under the speed limit and hit them, would you be at fault???

No!!! and neither would the O/P be at fault! :facepalm:

You drive at a speed which allows you to spot obstacles and avoid them. Driving on an unlit highway at high speed can be dangerous, you should turn off / dim all of your interior lights so as to adjust your eyes, and not be fussing with a radio, cellphone, arguing kids in the back, coffee, and not be driving fatigued. Furthermore, you must consider things like the amount of light available, your vehicle's performance, the quality of your vision, to help determine the speed you should be travelling.

Sure, a person could walk out from a bush and get hit -- so could a deer. Sure, that deer may be at fault, but that really doesn't matter when you're being impaled as he goes through the windshield.

At the end of the day, to me at least, it doesn't matter who's "at fault", that's for the courts to determine and not going to help you sleep any better at night. The best approach, don't put yourself in a position to go into the court system because of another idiot. That's not your legal responsibility, that's your human responsibility. Take neccessary precautions in life so that you don't contribute to harming yourself or others.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

So do you drive slower on a dark, unlit interstate because someone might try to walk across it where they are not supposed to ?

If they did, stepped off of the dark shoulder... you were driving at or under the speed limit and hit them, would you be at fault???

No!!! and neither would the O/P be at fault! :facepalm:

The point you miss--but the jury won't--is that you have some degree of fault if you hit something you could reasonably anticipate being in your path.

A pedestrian in the middle of the interstate at 2 am? No. A drunk college kid in a college town near a bar at 2 am? yes. An unlit kayak in the middle of a 15 mile bay at 10 pm on a Wednesday in February? no. An unlit kayak at dusk 100' from vacation homes on a lake on a holiday weekend? maybe....how much do you want to bet? How about a million dollars for each kayak?

When you're called to explain yourself in court, it's all 20/20 hindsight. Not fair, not what it should be, just what it is. That's all that counts.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

How to run at night and be safe. Down here we have to.

1. Get rid of that POS white running light mounted on the top of the windshield. It blocks you from seeing anything. Mount it as far behind you as possible and unless you have to don't ever look back at it.
2. Get rid of the red and green in front of you. Mount them even with you or behind.
3. Turn down anything on the dash that is bright.
4. NEVER NEVER leave a spot light on. Have someone else hold it OUT from under the windshield and away from the boat so it does not reflect anything on the boat back to you. Wave it back and forth enough to mark the markers and turn it off. When you feel uncomfortable repeat.
5. At least now you have a chance of having some night vision. You didn't see them because you were blind.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Let's make up a couple more facts while wer're at it:
1) Why speculate that the OP had a couple, lets just say he was obliterated and couldn't even stand up on his own!
2) Nowhere does it say he was 100' from shore, he was 20-30 yards from the no wake bouy.
3) It wasn't a holiday weekend.

People get run over jaywalking all the time where nobody is charged, that's far more common and likely than this situation. At what point would he not be at fault? 10 MPH, 20 MPH? By the standards some have set I'm now afraid to follow a motorcylce on the highway in rush hour traffic because if he bites it and I run him over it will be my fault.

Obviously everyone was lucky, but I see no reason to flame Scrit and no fault in his actions.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

I agree with bits and pieces of what everyone is saying.

I am often accused by friends and family of being overly cautious and anal about redundant safety procedures.

However for those of you that have said we should cruise around at 5mph because it happens to be after dark, your nuts.

Home cooking... Ive got some news for you. Those kids could have been hit and killed at 35mph if they were on the water after dark at night with zero lights.... a prosecutor wont even think twice about it. It never even sees a jury.

Now if the boat operator is drunk with no witnesses of his own, he has a big problem on his hands.

 

[jfried]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

I agree with bits and pieces of what everyone is saying.

I am often accused by friends and family of being overly cautious and anal about redundant safety procedures.

However for those of you that have said we should cruise around at 5mph because it happens to be after dark, your nuts.

Home cooking... Ive got some news for you. Those kids could have been hit and killed at 35mph if they were on the water after dark at night with zero lights.... a prosecutor wont even think twice about it. It never even sees a jury.

Now if the boat operator is drunk with no witnesses of his own, he has a big problem on his hands.

The thing is.. at the end of the day, it shouldn't be what the prosecutor finds... the simple fact is that your actions could've killed someone. Yes, they were idiots, but just because they're idiots, doesn't mean they deserve to die.

When it's after dark, just like at the day, cruise around at a speed which allows you to spot obstacles and avoid them. There's no magic safe number, it's dependent on visibility, amount of light, driver ability / vision, boat performance, etc. Follow some of kahuna's reccomendations as to increasing that safe speed (although doesn't the red/green light have to be bow-mounted?)

 

[lncoop]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

(although doesn't the red/green light have to be bow-mounted?)

It does indeed, and I'm not sure what he means by "that POS white running light mounted on top of the windshield". If he's thinking of the all around light that's not where it's supposed to be either. Then again, I guess I'm only a sofa keyboard warrior, so what do I know?

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Just when I thought this thread had run its course, we're off to the races again......

kahuna123 - While you're sitting on that sofa, you may want to grab your boating regulations manual and study it before offering advise. You are so uninformed....

 

[aspeck]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Yea, I thought we had put this to sleep, sorry it hasn't gone to bed quietly.

In summation, we need to realize that driving at night carries with it some inherent risks. We all should take into account how much we can and cannot see. It requires more care and attention than driving in ideal conditions. The amount of risk we are each willing to assume is subjective, as long as it is within the guidelines of the law. When we cross the line of the law it is wrong for everyone.

There are some in here that have a risk level that would keep them locked in their house all day and night and there are others that would be willing to bungee jump with a bungee that was too long! Risk tolerances are all different. The benefit of this thread is hopefully it has allowed all sides of the risk/rewards continuum to THINK about how we drive our boats at night, and hopefully that will make us all better and safer boaters.

We will never all agree on this issue, but let's get along without flaming each other.

Okay, I am off my soap box now ...

 

[scrit9mm]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Yea, I thought we had put this to sleep, sorry it hasn't gone to bed quietly.

In summation, we need to realize that driving at night carries with it some inherent risks. We all should take into account how much we can and cannot see. It requires more care and attention than driving in ideal conditions. The amount of risk we are each willing to assume is subjective, as long as it is within the guidelines of the law. When we cross the line of the law it is wrong for everyone.

There are some in here that have a risk level that would keep them locked in their house all day and night and there are others that would be willing to bungee jump with a bungee that was too long! Risk tolerances are all different. The benefit of this thread is hopefully it has allowed all sides of the risk/rewards continuum to THINK about how we drive our boats at night, and hopefully that will make us all better and safer boaters.

We will never all agree on this issue, but let's get along without flaming each other.

Okay, I am off my soap box now ...

Well said, that was my intention.

 

[bekosh]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

(although doesn't the red/green light have to be bow-mounted?)

It does indeed, and I'm not sure what he means by "that POS white running light mounted on top of the windshield". If he's thinking of the all around light that's not where it's supposed to be either. Then again, I guess I'm only a sofa keyboard warrior, so what do I know?

Perhaps a trip to the USCG Nav rules online is in order.
No, the red & green do not have to be at the bow. They are normally separate lights on the sides for power vessels under 50m. For vessels under 12m they may be combined into a single, center-line mount at the bow.

If you take a look at my boat, the sidelight is mounted just forward of the cabin window about 10ft back from the bow. And in the sunset pic you can see "that POS white running light mounted on top of the windshield". Mine is tall enough to be above the canvas and I blacked out the bottom half of the back side to keep from blinding myself. But it would be better if I moved it to the top of the arch instead.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Funny my response was removed. Enough said. You guys get the point. The 360 light is for anchor. The 180 light is running and should be behind the drivers line of sight. The picture you showed is correct. They don't interfere with you night vision.

I never accused anyone of being drunk. Two beers much less a drink in FL within one hour for a 200 pound man and your are over the limit. Whatever happens you are at fault.

Moderator shame on you for deleting my earlier post

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

The only constructive ting I can add to this thread is something my father passed on to me.

"Being right means nothing if your dead... right?"