Almost took a life Saturday

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Geez Guys.... Someone who had never been on the water at night would think it was like boating with your eyes closed listening to you guys whine. Don't the moon and stars shine were you live?

The two people who i know that have hit a floater (log) in the water have done so in broad daylight.

Tying off to a navigation buoy in the dark with no stern light (that is supposed to be displayed bright enough to be seen for 2 miles) is about like parking you car in the middle of suburban interstate at night. If you are dumb enough to do that the accident would be your fault.

I think navigation in the dark is quite easy when boaters obey the bow and stern light rules.

I dont know about yours but my boat stops pretty darn quick from 30mph. I frequently boat in waters i am familiar with at night and run 30mph. If i were not familiar with them it would of course be different.

As innocent as those kids in the kayaks may have been (young and dumb).... had the o/p hit them running 30mph in the dark it would have been their fault not his.

Most boating accidents involve stupidity and/or alcohol.....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Don't the moon and stars shine were you live?
I dont know about yours but my boat stops pretty darn quick from 30mph. I frequently boat in waters i am familiar with at night and run 30mph.
Most boating accidents involve stupidity....

I do believe you are proving our point.

By the way, looked up what the moon was on that night that the OP had his incident. At least where I live, the moon rose at 1:35AM and set at 4:05PM and was only 27% illumination so there was probably no moon where the OP was either. You really don't think stars illuminate the water enough to see anything do you?

Tying off to a navigation buoy in the dark with no stern light (that is supposed to be displayed bright enough to be seen for 2 miles) is about like parking you car in the middle of suburban interstate at night. If you are dumb enough to do that the accident would be your fault.

So lets say you are going along at 30 MPH and you hit this guy or someone who stalled out in the middle of the lake that has electrical problems(i came across a guy like this who went out to see the fireworks once and his battery connection got loose). There will be a collision and someone can get hurt or killed. Why is it so worth it to go 30 MPH when something like this CAN happen?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Geez Guys.... Someone who had never been on the water at night would think it was like boating with your eyes closed listening to you guys whine. Don't the moon and stars shine were you live?*

The two people who i know that have hit a floater (log) in the water have done so in broad daylight. **

Tying off to a navigation buoy in the dark with no stern light (that is supposed to be displayed bright enough to be seen for 2 miles) is about like parking you car in the middle of suburban interstate at night. If you are dumb enough to do that the accident would be your fault.***

I think navigation in the dark is quite easy when boaters obey the bow and stern light rules. ****

I dont know about yours but my boat stops pretty darn quick from 30mph. I frequently boat in waters i am familiar with at night and run 30mph. *****If i were not familiar with them it would of course be different.******

As innocent as those kids in the kayaks may have been (young and dumb).... had the o/p hit them running 30mph in the dark it would have been their fault not his.********

Most boating accidents involve stupidity and/or alcohol.....*******

*No. where I live, during a northeast system, there is no light from moon and stars. And on my planet, the moon is not ubiquitous.

**Just because two people in America hit something in the daytime proves...if you can't see it in the day time you certainly won't at night. But between the two, I know where the smart money bets.

***Actually it's safer to be tied to a bouy and that's where I'd go if broken down. If you hit someone tied to a bouy, you were going too close to the bouy. Tying to a bouy is like parking your car on the shoulder. Better than the middle. But your approach reveals your level of thinking.

****I think you put too much faith in the competence of your fellow man and the integrity of his equipment. A smart safe boater knows to watch for the worst boater, not the best.

*****It's not a matter of how fast your boat stops; it's a matter of how fast you can react to stop it, the distance it takes to stop it, compared to the distance of your effective visibility. At 30 mph you are going 44 feet per second. Three seconds to spot, evaluate, react is 132 feet before you even jam the throttle. How far canyou see? How many seconds to a dead stop from 30? Your idea of "pretty darn quick" could be fatal.

******It's not being familiar with "the waters" but what happens to be in them at the time. You can't know that in advance. Ask your two friends who hit the logs. in the daytime.

*******Nice. Hope you don't have any.

********True but you forgot "inexperience and the failure to recognize it." Clearly you think you are a better boater than you are. I'd feel safer if you were Joewithagolfcart.

And as for my experience running at night I refer you to my previous post. It is extensive and varied.

 

[bigriver79]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

I have been on the opposite side of the OP (many moons ago). Although it did not cost me my life, i ate through a straw for 2 months. I'm not going to go into details because its a moot point.

2 things I learned:

If your going to run at night you better be prepared to accept the mental resposibility should you cause harm to someone. You never what can happen, especially at night - even experienced boaters - know matter whose at fault.

Never get on the water without nav lights and always have a backup.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

I'm just glad the kids are okay. Sounds a lot like criminal negligence on shore IMO.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

30-35 MPH after dark!!! Not a good idea. You were as much in the wrong as they were.

Maybe where you live, but many places night is the safest time. I'm curious to know what you think is 'wrong' in this case, bearing in mind your 'wrong' is your opinion ...

yep. if your obeying the laws theres no reason that 35mph at night is unsafe. the kayaks should not be on the water after dark without coastguard approved nav and anchor lights running. theres only one party at fault IMO. the speedlimits on highways doesnt decrease after dark. thats what headlights and tail lights are for. and they sure as heck should have not been out of a no wake area at night either. parents are to blame for this almost tradgedy.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Geez Guys.... Someone who had never been on the water at night would think it was like boating with your eyes closed listening to you guys whine. Don't the moon and stars shine were you live?

The two people who i know that have hit a floater (log) in the water have done so in broad daylight.

Tying off to a navigation buoy in the dark with no stern light (that is supposed to be displayed bright enough to be seen for 2 miles) is about like parking you car in the middle of suburban interstate at night. If you are dumb enough to do that the accident would be your fault.

I think navigation in the dark is quite easy when boaters obey the bow and stern light rules.

I dont know about yours but my boat stops pretty darn quick from 30mph. I frequently boat in waters i am familiar with at night and run 30mph. If i were not familiar with them it would of course be different.

As innocent as those kids in the kayaks may have been (young and dumb).... had the o/p hit them running 30mph in the dark it would have been their fault not his.

Most boating accidents involve stupidity and/or alcohol.....

a agree 100%. my WOT speed is about 28-30mph and i run it all the time at night. the moon and stars and surounding homes and such light up the water on most evenings where i could see a boat 100' away. and could avoid. ive in 20 years of boating my lake here never seen a log. a river is a different story. but the fault here i agree was 100% the others fault had he been running 10mph or 60mph.

i catfish alot. most of the time i dont head to the lake till 6pm or later. im not running 5mph every trip cause others are stupid.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

yep. if your obeying the laws theres no reason that 35mph at night is unsafe.

my WOT speed is about 28-30mph and i run it all the time at night. the moon and stars and surounding homes and such light up the water on most evenings where i could see a boat 100' away.

At 30 MPH you are travelling 44 feet in a second. You see something in the water and you have only 2.5 seconds before you hit it and that is if you are paying perfect attention. At 35 MPH you have less than 2 seconds.

For me, that is 4 boat lengths. No way I could avoid anything in 4 boat lengths going 30-35 MPH once I saw it.

im not running 5mph every trip cause others are stupid.

Amazes me that people think that it is ok to go fast since they wouldn't be to blame if they hit someone. What am I missing here?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

At 30 MPH you are travelling 44 feet in a second. You see something in the water and you have only 2.5 seconds before you hit it and that is if you are paying perfect attention. At 35 MPH you have less than 2 seconds.

For me, that is 4 boat lengths. No way I could avoid anything in 4 boat lengths going 30-35 MPH once I saw it.


Amazes me that people think that it is ok to go fast since they wouldn't be to blame if they hit someone. What am I missing here?

what is missing (his, not yours) is critical thinking, informed judgment and a fundamental lack of personal responsibility. The guy who thinks he's OK b/c he can see a white boat 100' away (as he drills into it, I might add) is oblivious to how invisible is a dark kayak on a dark night with moderate chop and lots of shore lights reflecting. I night fish under interstate highway bridges with their big street lights and have not seen the 'yaks until about 20' away.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Amazes me that people think that it is ok to go fast since they wouldn't be to blame if they hit someone. What am I missing here?

What you are missing is who is at fault!

If you are on the water at night without lights.... Guess what, its your fault!

All this garb about stranded people without lights... Do you go slower on the freeway at night because there maybe someone stranded on the road with out there lights functioning?

If you can't see well at night i guess you should run as slow as you see fit. Like "catfishcar" The lakes i boat on are pretty heavily populated on the shores, lots of lights. When the sky is perfectly clear and i can see well, i will be running on plane. (above 18mph). Ive never measured how far i can see but its a heck of a lot farther than 100 feet. If you are boating in the same conditions I am and are going slow because you cant see, you need to go to an optometrist/ophthalmologist, because you have some night vision issues.

We do have some unpopulated corps of engineer lakes that can be pretty dark with no moon and or cloudy sky's. I am a pleasure boater and dont go out in foul weather so Ive never been out where i didn't feel safe on plane, 20mph. I should add that i am a much different operator at night, almost never taking my eyes off of the water ahead. Much different than daytime operating. To say you should operating off plane just because it is night time is just silly.

"Home cooking"....On some Texas lakes we have Buoys that are "channel markers". These lakes are flooded river beds, the depth can change from 50ft to 5ft very quickly. The buoys have flashing lights and folks use them to point to point navigate day or night to keep from running into underwater trees and rocks. People dont tie off to them, stranded or not. Yours buoys may be different.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

It's unfortunate this has deteriorated into a contentious conversation about nighttime boating speeds, because that's not what it began life as. In my opinion, which is only my opinion, running on plane at night is some times a bad idea and some times not. I've never been to scrit's lake and don't know if there are nighttime speed restrictions there so I won't presume to tell him how fast he should run on it, but the fact remains that barring any such restrictions the blame for this near tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of those responsible for the care of the youngsters in the yaks.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

It's unfortunate this has deteriorated into a contentious conversation about nighttime boating speeds, because that's not what it began life as. In my opinion, which is only my opinion, running on plane at night is some times a bad idea and some times not. I've never been to scrit's lake and don't know if there are nighttime speed restrictions there so I won't presume to tell him how fast he should run on it, but the fact remains that barring any such restrictions the blame for this near tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of those responsible for the care of the youngsters in the yaks.

Good point incoop, I agree..

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

the blame for this near tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of those responsible for the care of the youngsters in the yaks.

I totally agree. Like I said before, I bet the OP is not going to be going 30-35 MPH anymore at night after what almost happened.

This thread started with 2 things occurring. Kayaks without lights at night and a boat going 30-35 MPH at night. If one happened without the other, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place so not sure how it has really deteriorated. I don't think anyone is arguing fact number 1. Fact number 2 is the discussion.

There are many lakes that have instituted night time speed limits after accidents have happened. It really shouldn't be the governments job to regulate common sense but since there are obviously many that don't have any, it has to happen. There typically isn't a regulation how fast you can drive your boat in pea soup fog either but MOST people that have common sense will slow down because of the conditions.

I still think the main purpose of a thread like this is to make people think. If at least one person rethinks what they have previously done and makes themselves a safer boater this conversation has served its purpose. Would be very interesting to know how many who have read this thread and have a little bit of an open mind will now go a little slower.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

There are many lakes that have instituted night time speed limits after accidents have happened.

Ill add that to the long list of reasons that I would never live in "The Peoples Republic of California" LOL

Make everyone else suffer because of a few idiots... :facepalm:

 

[salty87]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

It really shouldn't be the governments job to regulate common sense but since there are obviously many that don't have any, it has to happen.

i agree it shouldn't have to be the govt's job. more regulation creates more boneheaded people unable to be responsible for themselves...which creates the need for more regulation which....it never ends!

sometimes i think darwin should just be allowed to thin the herd a bit.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Make everyone else suffer because of a few idiots... :facepalm:

Glad you finally see my point!

Ill add that to the long list of reasons that I would never live in "The Peoples Republic of California" LOL

Most of these lakes are actually not in California!

Wish less people would come here!

 

[burt6666]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

I totally agree. Like I said before, I bet the OP is not going to be going 30-35 MPH anymore at night after what almost happened.

This thread started with 2 things occurring. Kayaks without lights at night and a boat going 30-35 MPH at night. If one happened without the other, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place so not sure how it has really deteriorated. I don't think anyone is arguing fact number 1. Fact number 2 is the discussion.

There are many lakes that have instituted night time speed limits after accidents have happened. It really shouldn't be the governments job to regulate common sense but since there are obviously many that don't have any, it has to happen. There typically isn't a regulation how fast you can drive your boat in pea soup fog either but MOST people that have common sense will slow down because of the conditions.

I still think the main purpose of a thread like this is to make people think. If at least one person rethinks what they have previously done and makes themselves a safer boater this conversation has served its purpose. Would be very interesting to know how many who have read this thread and have a little bit of an open mind will now go a little slower.

I totally agree with this.

 

[diesel1960]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

As a power boater I try to be in before dark but that is a personal choice based on my judgment of my own skills. As a kayaker and canoeist my trip plan is to always be off the water long before sundown. As a parent my children's safety comes above all and I would never knowingly allow my child into this situation in the first place. In Ontario we need a license to operate a power boat but they'll still let any idiot be a parent. Glad everyone made it home safely.

The problem is that also idiots getting those licences "on line"

 

[diesel1960]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

Coming back from dinner late Saturday night on the boat, probably around 11pm or so. Our lakehouse is in a no wake slough. I'm probably doing 30-35 approaching the no wake markers. I shut it down about 100 yards before the markers and I faintly hear someone hollar "no wake!" I look around and there are two kayaks in the water about 5 ft to the right of me. One of the kayaks was capsized and the other was just a bit farther, maybe 7-10ft to my right. The one that capsized was being paddled by what looked like a 12 y.o. boy while the other one was a 9 or so year old girl. No lights and no life jackets on either one. After my boat came off of plane and the excitement was over I looked for the no wake marker, we were about 20-30 yards from the markers. The person that screamed "no wake!" was their drunk mother on the shore. The boy was clearly shooken up so I made sure they were ok and stayed with them for about a min or two fully expecting someone from the house would come and make sure their children were not chopped up. The boy righted his boat and paddled off. We idle over close to the house that belted out "no wake!" and there are at least 10-15 people, all appear to be hammered drunk. We go to our house dock the boat, watch the meteor shower and thank God things didnt turn out worse.

You will never speed in the dense fog - so you do not speed at night ,it does make any sense ?

 

[NYBo]

Re: Almost took a life Saturday

1. Nighttime is a period of restricted visibility, period.

2. No one seems to commented on the fact that the kids weren't wearing PFDs. Gross negligence on the part of the parent(s) on top of the rest.