Advise please!

[SaltyBlood]

Do you think it would be wise to get a marine surveyor to take a look at it?

I really want to be running this summer, but it won't do us any good to have a boat that just keeps the driveway warm......

Best Regards,
Joshua

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Advise please!

Like many first-time buyers you have a conflict: your budget is too low to buy a boat big enough that is dependable or turn-key. As you have now seen, $2000 for 16' is a tough fit (for a reliable boat). You need to have $800 for start-up costs after the purchase.

You just have to pay for reliability. In this regard, boats are just like cars. Some folks can tolerate an unreliable boat/car; some can make an unreliable become sufficiently reliable but that takes $ and skill, for others, reliability is crucial. You are in the latter category.

"Surveys" are for big boats and big prices. You don't get a survey for a $2000 boat. The exception is if you have a knowledgeable friend who will kick the tires with you, or a great relationship with a boat mechanic who isn't very busy (around here, if they aren't busy they aren't very good). Now, in your case, you will be taking the boat to a mechanic before you use it, but then it's too late for the sale.

Because you are looking at the low end, I'd look for boats that hold up well. That would be one with an outboard and a self-bailing deck. Not an old inboard outboard bow rider. There are plenty of other boats with open bow seating. Also an outboard gives you more room inside the boat, and they are easier to work on and to repower. they are salt tolerant, Saltyblood. Consider a 16' aluminum with bow seating, too.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: Advise please!

Here are some good candidates I found on CL in the New Hampshire area (a small drive for you). Might be on the higher side of your price list?
http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2820691591.html Looks clean from the pics
http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2816608348.html maybe over priced?
http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2806935349.html look nice, except for the pics in the snow!

Good Luck! Don't hesitate to ask anyone you know with a boat or with a family member with a boat, or if they would sell or know anyone looking to sell a boat. Do your due diligence as mentioned above, of course!

 

[SaltyBlood]

Ok, so I talked with the owner of the four winns, he is going to send me some more pics.

But, if I were to bite on this, I am looking at a 3.5 hr drive. So I would either buy it on the spot or not at all. What kind of questions should I ask ahead of time??

Thanks guys!!

 

[Philster]

Re: Advise please!

Just a note on inboard/outboards:

On used car, you have this window of risk. Basic American car... little old.... worn out a bit. She wil still haul you around every day. Things will break, and you'll toss 75 bucks into some brakes and drive for 6 months with the engine light on. Then you will toss 250 to clear that up and maybe a year later the suspension needs work and you get it done for 350.

With a boat, you could spend 2000 bucks to buy it, and immediately find out it needs 2500 in work in the first 30 days, and then discover the deck and substructure are collapsing and you need 3000 for that, plus 350 for the trailer work. It can get ugly really fast. If you haven't cried in ten years, the next most likely thing to make you cry is an old I/O bow rider.

Find something with a 2-stroke outboard engine. Hopefully a center console with a deck liner. That puts you into something more akin to an older car. You WILL drop money on repairs and crap, but it will be more like buying a used, decent car. Buying an old I/O bow rider is akin to buying a 1960's era British roadster.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: Advise please!

Find something with a 2-stroke outboard engine. Hopefully a center console with a deck liner. That puts you into something more akin to an older car. You WILL drop money on repairs and crap, but it will be more like buying a used, decent car. Buying an old I/O bow rider is akin to buying a 1960's era British roadster.

I do agree with this statement to some degree. I like having an outboard here in Colorado as winterizing is mandatory and they are easier to maintain...not say saying an I/O cannot be maintained easily, but I see more ads with comments like "needs new block" or "slight crack in the heads" which all equate poor maintenance and not winterized. Because you have stated you're looking for a good used inexpensive bow rider (center consoles are awesome/durable boats but are not as great for leisure activities with the family IMO), then I say do your due diligence (check running condition on I/O and compression on O/B), check the floors for soft spots (remove/open anything that hinders your ability to see/step on, take a small awl or screwdriver and press it into any areas that look suspect of rot/moisture intrusion in the decking/transom). The bottom line is no matter what you ultimately purchase there are risks involved, your goals should be to minimize your exposure.

I paid $4,000.00 for my Baja 5 years ago to a good friend's dad (He just put a rebuilt motor in the boat 2 years previous, or so he was told by the guy he bought the motor from!) My buddy's dad had had the boat since 1985 and garage stored it and takes great care of his stuff. Anyway, first time at lake it started right up and ran and all was good except top speed was only 45mph (should be around 60ish), I took in to a shop here locally to have it tuned up and the mechanic (right in front of) pulled starboard head to take a look and low and behold someone had taken a hand grinder to the head/combustion chamber for clearance and/or cc's. I was somewhat pissed at myself for not doing a compression check. Needless to say it cost me. I opted for a complete rebuild and it cost me $3,200.00 (they rushed so I could use it Labor Day weekend...so the price reflects some overtime) So, i basically paid $7,200.00 for a $4,000.00 boat. Issues like this are what you try an avoid but in the end it's an older boat and there most likely will be some issues when bought or shortly there after.

Many will say they bought an older boat and other than maintenance, has not cost them much, but I know far more where it has cost them more. Leave some contingency money for repairs and I like bowriders for small family's as well. Plus, as they get older they will want to bring friends. I can tell you we have all our "regular hang-out friends" with campers and looking at pontoon boats as they are now addicted to camping at lakes and all have 2-3 kids so, the boat will fill up fast with people! This is not counting the number of people we meet at the lakes and take their kids tubing, skiiing and wake boarding.

Beside, if you do end up with a boat that needs work, there are so may knowledgeable people on these forums, it's like having a full interactive instruction manual at your finger tips. That and some people's projects are almost done and ready to be splashed...we need to more rebuilds!

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Advise please!

grins I was gona sugest a poonton at the risk of banishment.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Advise please!

Ok, so I talked with the owner of the four winns, he is going to send me some more pics.

But, if I were to bite on this, I am looking at a 3.5 hr drive. So I would either buy it on the spot or not at all. What kind of questions should I ask ahead of time??

Thanks guys!!

Ayuh,.... If it's the top link posted,... Ya Don't want that 1 either,...
It's the dreaded Merc. 470......

Of the links bajaunderground posted,...
The top 1, the Four Winns, is the dreaded 470,...
The 2nd, is another OMC...
The 3rd now,... the Four Winns in the snow...
That's a 4.3l, 2bbl. carb motor, 'n Alpha 1 outdrive....
A nice Solid package to work with, 'n Lotsa parts availability...

But,... Bein' an '87, who knows it's condition, 'n history, much less possible wood rot...

 

[SaltyBlood]

Re: Advise please!

Yes, it was the last one I called on. It looks good and you all seem to think it is a good package, but would be a tough one as it is 800 over budget and I would have a 4 hr drive on top of it. But I will keep it in mind......

Here is one that got posted today. It is an older boat and cheap, maybe if I put $1,500 into it? What do you all think?

http://southcoast.craigslist.org/boa/2825913774.html

thanks again for all of the advice!!

Joshua

 

[southkogs]

Re: Advise please!

I don't like the look of the one you posted. Just kinda' looks abused to me - first impressions are hard to tell though.

But, I felt like shopping with someone else's money tonight Pickings in Boston area are a bit slim right now looks like, so I expanded over to Hartford (looked in Trenton too). Found a couple that would be worth the look for me (can't tell how far these are from you though):

http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/2803331772.html - shot in the dark, but I like the setup so if it's in decent condition...
http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/2779569699.html - OLD boat, but looks in spectacular shape. Could require a bunch of maintenance ...
http://worcester.craigslist.org/boa/2772620948.html - ditto above
http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/2799506135.html - Looks like a possibility, but you'd have to talk him down some
http://newlondon.craigslist.org/boa/2825588989.html - much the same as above
http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/2784577589.html - boat looks a little rough, but Whalers are worth cleanin' up if you gotta' I like the OB on it too. Again, gotta' talk him down some
http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/2780267432.html - kinda' like the first one - a "hail-mary" but worth a look.
http://cnj.craigslist.org/boa/2758711183.html
http://cnj.craigslist.org/boa/2823332155.html - nice lookin' starter boat

I notice that Hartford linked out to even Long Island. So forgive me if it seems I want you to drive all over the place!

 

[SaltyBlood]

Ohhhh.....I like the Arrowglass!!

Come on, tell me it would be a good buy! Give a man some encouragement!

I just may need to head towards NJ this weekend......

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Advise please!

So, if I understand this correctly, it may be an OK boat, but there is the potential that if something breaks in the motor, it could lead to a big headache?

How about the reliability of those motors? If I were to put $500 into it in tune-up, etc., maybe, just maybe, I could get a year or two out or her?? I would be ok with that for my first power boat.....

I have been watching the ads for some time now, maybe last summer, and I just can't find something over 16', not destroyed by neglect, comes with trailer, and all for under 2 g's.

Would hate to lose another summer, but I do understand the wisdom of waiting for the right one......I'm just getting impatient.....

I can tell you have boatitis. This is when you decide that you want a boat and are excited about getting one. Keep your emotions out of it. Let me put my .02 in here.

First off, you were smart coming here and asking for advise, two thumbs up on that one. You have waited a year and have not found a boat within your budget that you like.. I don't know your financials other than what you stated in your post.

My opinion is WAIT. Although it will be hard, finding the "right" first boat, it will be important in many different ways. If you buy a boat that ends up breaking down the first few times of having her out, this can put a damper on what your wife and kids think about boating. Also if it has issues like rotten stringers, transoms etc, you will be out alot more money. If the boat is not comfortable or just looks dingy and worn out, its not going to be appealing for very long.

Try and extend your budget to around 6 to 8k. This will open up many doors as far as finding a very good first boat. By the way, the right boat will come along if you keep being patient. It will feel right,look right and will probably fall in your lap.

Where are you looking for boats at? May want to expand your search. the good thing about the economy right now is anyyone selling a boat has to sell it cheaper than when the economy is good. Looking through the winter is a good idea, but early spring is also a good time when people are looking to move up in size or figure they need to sell it because of non use.

Even though I own a omc era boat, I would agree with above, find a mercruiser or volvo.

 

[Silly Seville]

Re: Advise please!

Ohhhh.....I like the Arrowglass!!

Come on, tell me it would be a good buy! Give a man some encouragement!

I hope you're not serious. It's a tri-hull. There is a reason they are no longer a popular design. Also, those are AUTOMOTIVE seats onboard, and I think they are leather to boot! The only leather you will find on a boat (yacht class) is in cabin areas. How long do you think leather is going to last when it gets wet every weekend? Also, what is the mentality of a person who does this to a boat? I can't imagine that the maintenance was a high priority on this craft. Just saying!

 

[SaltyBlood]

Yes chriscraft, you are correct, I do have boatitis. I have had it my whole life. From child hood with the grandad to scuba diving and deep sea fishing, I get on a boat any chance I can. (I know that is not exactly what you meant, just letting you know where I am coming from. This has been many years in the making) I feel as though it is coming to cruntch time though as I wanted to buy during winter while prices and demand were low. Thats why I have been trying to finalize a choice. But then again, I do want this to be a good experience for the family, so I feel you on that point as well.....

I have been looking in Craigslist, boat trader, local classifieds & dealers......or any site that has any listings.....

My budget was originally at 5k, but with some arm twisting from the wife, I agreed to drop it down to 2k for a new bed and a weekend in NYC (on the bright side wife is happy. And if the wife is happy, the whole family is happy).

With it being my first powered, I figured I could sacrifice size for a simple starter boat. I was just going to get a 12' Jon with a small outboard, but I am a big guy and my brother (fishing buddy) is a big guy. So, now I am trying to get something at least 14', but after I started looking at some in person, I decided to seek help and found this forum.

I am willing to drive 4 hrs ish, as long as I can get it for under 2k.....

I plan on calling on the arrow glass in the am.......if I can get away from this forum and my rear to bed!

Thanks again to all for your wisdom and honesty!!

Joshua

 

[SaltyBlood]

Just read your post silly, I was kinda wondering about those seats as well. Point taken.....

 

[Silly Seville]

Re: Advise please!

I think you should avoid that Arrowglass. That 55 hp outboard is woefully underpowered for your intended purposes. I think your money would be better spent on the 88 Seville...but I am slightly biased!

In any event, take your time searching and increase your chances for making the right purchase the first time. No regrets!

Good luck!

 

[SaltyBlood]

If I offered him 2300, would that be reasonable? Assuming all the claims are true.....

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/boa/2825588989.html

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Advise please!

My .02

Make sure it is solid with no rot..... Is that really a merc? looks funny to me......do a compression test on the engine... really look things over..... Don't sit and bounce in the seats playing the radio, but go at with the attitude that something IS wrong and ur gonna find it and if all is well Do NOT get excited. Think on it for several minutes and VERY POLITELY offer $1800....Do NOT OFFEND him..... he'll say no and offer it for $2300.... you think on it again, talk to the wife, and offer $2000...... He'll likely take it or come back with $2100 and you'll have $200 more than you expected in your pocket to keep your wifey happy.

Decide ahead of time what you would be willing to pay and don't let emotion into it..... whether you buy it or not you WILL find another one in a day or twenty.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Advise please!

DO look very closely for rot.... that bow cover likely does a POOR job from keeping the rain out but the canvas likely does a good job of keeping the boat damp.... A new floor or even carpet that looks newer than the rest of the interior can be a big red flag

 

[Silly Seville]

Re: Advise please!

Actually, I wouldn't pay a penny more than 2k for it...if it needed NOTHING to put it on the water and begin using it. There are hundreds of Sea Rays of this vintage and hull design around. They are very popular here in the Midwest. The Seville, Monaco and Sorrento all used the same hull configuration and were generally thought of as a tank-like boat. This was an era when the hulls were solid fiberglass. Lots of plywood too, (stringers, seat bases, bulkheads and floor) so you really have to know what you're doing when you give it the shakedown. I wish I could be there for you to look at that Seville in person, because I know exactly where the classic Sea Ray design flaws exist. If you are really serious about looking at that Seville, PM me and I will give you a list of things to look for specific to that model.