Advice needed on material for major repairs

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Getting ready to order the resin and glass and need alittleadvice, unsure what I really need. The glass on the stringer looks like all chopper gun CSM on this sea ray. The stringer has several curves to cover. so need a liile direction here . I plan to use epoxy instead of VE due to the shelf life and had planned to epoxy coat the entire ply section to help prevent future water damage. What glass and layup do I need with this plan or is there a better way to seal the wood and stay with VE so I can use more CSM to cover the curves. Really love this forum and learing a ton!!

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Preventing wood rot has more to do with the quality of the job you do than the resin you choose. Wood rots from getting wet, this is normally due to unsealed screws, gaps in the glass, thin glass, poor design, sloppy work, and many other things, these same issues are in place no matter which resin is used. So if having no rotten wood in the future is your main concen use which ever resin you want, it will be about the same.

If you were just going to coat the wood with a resin and not use glass, then epoxy is the only way to go.

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

ondavr, thanks. I am not second guessing the resin, I wanted to bond the two ply's together with and bed with epoxy and with the shelf life i may go that way. It looks like Sea Ray has may voids in their glass, under the fuel tank area where the bulk head meets the stringer system and many others so i need to ensure the beds are sealed good and epoxy is the only one I know of???. The problem I have is I do not know what other bedding material will do this and need to know what glass to use and layup or schedule to wrap these curves if i need to use epoxy. Thanks

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Shelf life is how long a product will last in an unopened container with no hardener or catalyst added. Gel time is how long it takes for it to get hard after the hardener has been added.

I'm not exactly sure what it is you are worrying about.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Its all about prep when your doing fillets. You can do it in epoxy and lam with VE/poly.

You just have to re-prep/grind the fillets if your going to mix and match in those locations ( more work/materials ).

I try to fillet and lam in one operation ( chemical bond with the same resin ). You dont have to fill and lam Everything in one shot man..do it in sections.

YD.

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

I was talking about shelf and not gel time as it may take me some time to complete this. Thanks

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

What glass and layup do I need with this plan or is there a better way to seal the wood and stay with VE so I can use more CSM to cover the curves.

It looks like Sea Ray has may voids in their glass, under the fuel tank area where the bulk head meets the stringer system and many others so i need to ensure the beds are sealed good and epoxy is the only one I know of???. The problem I have is I do not know what other bedding material will do this and need to know what glass to use and layup or schedule to wrap these curves if i need to use epoxy. Thanks

Its all about prep when your doing fillets. You can do it in epoxy and lam with VE/poly.

You just have to re-prep/grind the fillets if your going to mix and match in those locations ( more work/materials ).

I try to fillet and lam in one operation ( chemical bond with the same resin ). You dont have to fill and lam Everything in one shot man..do it in sections.

YD.

I was talking about shelf and not gel time as it may take me some time to complete this. Thanks

I thought I was answering your questions.. I might be misunderstanding exactly what you want/need then ?

You can use epoxy for your fillets and VE for your lams and tabs.

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

I was talking about shelf and not gel time as it may take me some time to complete this. Thanks

Now I understand. How long do you think this will take?

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

10-4 YD you did and Thanks!!.At the rate I am moving who knows with the temps around 102, index at 110 and the humidity at 100 every day. Also concerned about all the voids I am finding. For example where they formed the fuel area andit meets the bulk head I am replacing. I now have a large void I want to fill to help prevent a way for water to travel in case there are more issues with the factory galss some where I have not found.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

I guess get everything prepped minus a few days and order up what you need for top shelf life.

I think you could order now and have everything there and not worry about shelf life as long as you store your resin in coolest darkest place that is available ( outside of the main house of course ).

YD.

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

I have a good idea of what I will need using VE (2 or three layers 1708 with stitched mat, tape, materials to make the peanut butter....will I need to use a thicker mat), thanks to you guys!! Will the VE fill these voids I found with no issues. I guess I will ask what i will need if I decide not to fight this humidity and use epoxy for all the repairs, as far as glass type, layers ect? I will post an update soon with progress and other issues I found to address. This has been a really long project with all the other repairs I have had to make......

( replace ALL caulking, rebed the rub rails, replace half the inside cabin carpet, recaulk the shower, replace the shower pump, rebuild the inside steps, install hard wood flooring, remove and sand/paint and reseal the windshield, chase an inside cabin water leak, remove and clean all the deck seating, rebuild both trim pumps, replace the water heater, repair trailer, build cradle and completly strip the ER).......and its not even my boat LOL. THANKS GUYS!!!!

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Another question for a new issue, After removing the stringer, I found a place between the two engine stringers where it looks like the glass has started to seperate. It is about 8 inches wide and 2 feet long where the secondary bond was made between the hull the bottom of the ER when glassed in. Should I remove it and replace or will pouring thinned epoxy bond it back together? I think I know the answer after learning fomr you guys already!! Thanks

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Never thin epoxy, but it won't work anyhow.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

If its Glass and delammed then it should be removed and replaced. If its just a voided lam.. Dunno without pics.

No on the thinned out poxy idea though ..

YD.

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

One is a pic of the stringer removed and the other is where I cut a small patch out to see what is up. It looks like where they came in and layed the stringers in, glassed them to the hull and it is not bonded to the hull in this section.

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Found more to fix as expected. The thin layer of glass was seperated on the bulk heads so I removed and treated with epoxy. I left the foam section in place so I am now ready to glue the new ply to them. Question, the fuel section stringer glass was around 4mm and the engine stringer glass was 5 to 9 mm at the bottom and top......thinner on the sides, around 5mm. What glass and how many layers will i need to match the same strength or thickness with epoxy...... since i have strated treating with epoxy. Also will I need to tab then cover or run the full section out 6 inches on the first layer then start cutting back on the rest as i go?
Thanks guys!!

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

thoughts?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

I only have 2 comments:

That if you are using epoxy, you will need to continue to use epoxy in all areas that need repair and come into contact w/ one another. Fiberglass polyester resin does not bind to epoxy. However, epoxy does bind to polyester resin.

I thought you'd decided to use vinyl ester resin?

And for epoxy, you need to be absolutely positive you have epoxy compatible fiberglass materials.

Many fiberglass products (CSM is normally not compatible, I don't know if it's got an epoxy equivalent) are not designed for use with epoxy. Epoxy lacks styrene. Styrene in fiberglass poly resin is what causes the binders in CSM to soften (wrong term but only 1 I could come up with) allowing it to conform & adhere to the surface it's applied to, and be saturated (wetted out) by the resin. This does not occur when used w/ epoxy.

I'm not able to answer the structural put back questions.

 

[mcdc1224]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Thanks for the insight. I decided to go with epoxy for several reasons. I have treated the exposed bulk heads with epoxy after the glass skin was removed. I have never taken on a project this large and need the LITTLE advantage of epoxy if I do not get the prep 100% in all areas just right. Would like to treat all the ply with the best waterproofing material available…..in case I screw up LOL .I understand poly cannot be applied over epoxy and have learned that I do not need to use CSM with epoxy. Never try to use both poly and epoxy for repairs.……..please remember I am trying to learn. I am a PE by trade so i ask a lot of question and have found a lot of insight from very good people on this site, so thanks again

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Advice needed on material for major repairs

Please remember I am trying to learn. I am a PE by trade so i ask a lot of question and have found a lot of insight from very good people on this site, so thanks again

I never owned a boat before Nov 2011, so I too am trying to learn. Asking lots of questions, esp prior to demo & definitely before put back, is better then anything else you could do, IMHO....

Tons of helpful info here. I just seemed to remember a VE Q&A earlier in the thread. So I asked about it. Nothing wrong with trying to learn some stuff, no matter what we thought in high school

If I gave you the impression I was trying to discourage you for asking questions, let me assure you, that was not the case

As far as waterproofing the wooden structure, I'd suggest that you do it the best you can, with the best materials you can. We can't all be expert boat restorers (esp not the 1st time), do perfect repairs using space age polymers & epoxy w/ carbon fiber cloth. But we can, as you are, ask lots of questions and do our best to heed the advice of more experienced others that have done it before (why I didn't make any suggestions for the put back questions). Then do our best to protect our investment: Drain plug removed after every outing, keeping it bow up & well covered, under shelter of some sort in addition to a boat cover, regularly check it thoroughly, and address any minor things that come up as they come up.

That way it'll last as long as possible, because in many (most)cases, we'd never recoup our material costs, let alone the time & energy we've put into a boat resto if or when we decide to sell it.

Have a great end to the week