A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

[12Footer]

I'm not a wildman on the highway. I haven't had a "moving violation" since I ate three buritos and chased it with a mountain dew and a six pack at age 25! So I'm kind of lost here.<br />I got called-into werk last night (a 33mile trip each way), and on the way home on I-75, I came-up on a "road-cluster"...A "rolling parking lot" of cars, all of them in the right lane with a cop car taking-up the rear,-- excapt for one intrepid soul in an intrepid, doing the same speed, in the fast lane.<br />The posted speed was 70, everyone (obviously quivering behind the wheel with white knuckles because of the sheriff), was "in-compliance". I was going 75 as I approached this rolling blob, in the fast lane. I kicked-off the cruise control, and slowed as I approached the intrepid one. As I did, the intrepid one slows-down even slower! So naturally, I ended-up slowing down further, and overtook the intrepid one. "One" did not move over, nor could he, as the right lane was full of the rest of his frightened herd.<br />After a minute or so, "one" now has slowed down so that the rest of the herd in the creep lane passed, then turned-on it's turn signal, and moved over.<br />I put the coals to it, and proceded to pass the blob in the passing lane, when "CPL Blank" moves up behind me, turns his Kmarts on, and we pull over. He could've cited me for 3-5MPH over the posted speed,and I would not have questioned this. But noooooooooooooo!!! This butt-monkey cites me for "following too closely"!<br />This is where I'm scratchin my head;<br />I would really like to contest this, but am naturally concerned with "the letter of the law". Was I following too closely? If I was, then everyone,including me, follows too closely when they roll-up on every traffic light!<br />LIST OF OPTIONS (as presented by CPL Blank and the micro-printing on the reverse of the citation);<br /><br />1. Go to court and fight it. The procedure for fighting this ticket are vague,at best. There is a blank line where the "Clerk of Courts" phone number and adddress should be, (hence, my knicknaming the CPL "BLANK"--besides, his name is iledgeable, Saheid something).<br />2. I can take a week's vacation, and go to traffic school...Not an option, as I do not want to blow my vacation in a room full of morons just like me,and some smart-axe rollin tape of gruesome crashes...(I'm just going on what I heard about these "classes" ). The boredom must be tasteable!<br />3. Pay the $113.50 fine, and get 4 points placed-upon my record (which is spotless,BTW)...A side-question here; If I opt this route, will my insurance rates go up?<br /><br />But the 'big' question is; what would you do,if you got this?

 

[aspeck]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

First response would be to fight it. Technicality, but shouldn't the ticket filled in completely? Since you have no phone number or address to call, do you have a friend in law enforcement from that area? He/she should be able to give you the best advise.<br /><br />Second response, after thinking a bit, pay the fine and leave it go. It should not effect your insurance rates, the points will go away in a couple of years of safe, and ticket free driving, and the time and hassle involved in fighting it will probably exceed the $113.50 for the ticket.

 

[crab bait]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

how dare that wrongful butt-monkey cop accuse you of doing anything wrong..

 

[bubbakat]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

12er sounds like you got onto one fresh out of school. You may have exceeded the limit of staying far enough away from the front car but the lead car in the left lane was breaking the law to. The left lane or fast lane as it is called is there so faster traffic can move on past the slower traffic. The officer got a little perturbed because you weren't intermediated by his presence.<br />If it had been me and you weren't being reckless I would have done nothing. I have saw a many of an officer do these types of rolling road blocks which in my opinion is a childish way to play and unprofessional of them.<br />I would take a day and go to court and explain it to the judge and with your driving record he will probably reduce it to a lower whatever fits.<br />Now as for it going on your driving license it will. Make no mistake about it any and all moving violations do go on your licenses

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

Id fight it as long as you are sure you were not to close. He will have to produce evidence if you didnt do it he cant. I just got off one where I was guilty but he put the wrong date on the ticket. The slightest things can get you off its sometime worth speaking to a lawyer

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

Fight it 12Footer, FIGHT IT!<br /><br />But don't go to court without a lawyer!<br /><br />The lawyer fee will in the long run, be cheaper than if you didn't have one. Figure if it costs you $200 for the lawyer, what would it cost for the fine and surcharges, and the points on your license, that leads to higher insurance rates! Plus, the judge is usually more leinant on ya because you brought a lawyer.<br /><br />Go to court with a lawyer!<br /><br />Plus, you won't have to wait all day to be called in court if you have an attorney, you go right to the front of the line.<br /><br />Your only chance of beating this is with a lawyer, as it is your word against that of a police officer, and the judge will always side with the police officer, unless you have legal representation on your side!<br /><br />Get a lawyer and fight this!<br /><br />Never, ever, go to court without a lawyer!

 

[mattttt25]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

12footer- i know plenty of people, including myself, that have been in this situation. the best thing to do is go to court and try to fight it.<br /><br />couple things can happen- if the cop doesn't show up (which sometimes happens), ticket is dropped and you walk away with nothing on your record. if he does show, be very respectful and explain the case to the judge. keep it short and sweet- your honor, i don't feel i was following to closely, the other car was doing less than the speed limit, i was doing the speed limit and came up on him, but i then slowed. be certain to tell the judge about your perfect record and then ask for leniency. i will almost guarantee the judge cuts the fine in half and only gives you a point or two on your record. in most states, insurance premiums don't increase until you reach 3 or more points. i've seen this work plenty of times for people even speeding 25 mph over. just by showing up, they get the ticket cut in half.<br /><br />good luck-

 

[steve n carol]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

fight it...or, send me only $99.99. and I'll write a letter to the judge and have your mom sign it!<br /><br />Some states have online traffic school. But do the math, and fight it! and slow down and be patient! and wear your campain hat to court...sl

 

[bassman283m]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

As stated above, get a lawyer before you go to court, even traffic court. Traffic court judges see all kinds of people with assorted goof ball excuses on why they should get off. Not only will the presence of the lawyer add weight to your appearance, the lawyer will probably have some good thoughts on how to handle the case.<br /><br />Back in 1980, I drove a semi hauling gas and deisel. I generally got off work about 1 to 3 in the morning. My route home went past the police station. 3:00 am is a bad time because the cops are pretty well done chasing drunks and are looking for other entertainments. Three times in about a fourmonth period I got busted for going 35 in the 25 zone in front of the station. This was annoying, but the ticket was only about 15 bucks so I just mailed them in. <br /><br />A couple of months later I got a letter from the DOT informing that by Iowa law a person with 3 moving violations in a year was subject to having their license suspended a significant amount of time (don't remember exactly)and gave me a hearing date. Of course, without a chauffer's license I was dead meat. <br /><br />A good friend of mine was a former trucker who became a lawyer. Damn good one, actually. I decided I better call him for advice. <br /><br />He went to the hearing with me. He pointed out to the hearing officer that I had a clean record driving the truck and a clean record in my car, other than the three speeding tickets, all of which were issued at the same location and all issued between 2:40 and 3:00 am.<br /><br />I got off with a 1 year probation during which I could not have a single movign violation. I doubt that I would have gotten off without the lawyer.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

I agree with KKC and Bassmanb. Get a lawyer and fight it. I know you may not want to pay for an attorney, but they can sure be a big help in the court room.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

Yeah, talk to a lawyer specializing in traffic cases. You may not even have to fight it, he may be able to plead it down to a non-moving violation without you even needing to be there. You'll probably end up paying the same amount in fines & court costs plus the attorneys fee, but I bet that will be alot less than changes in your insurance rates. <br /><br />Even if your rates wouldn't go up (and my guess is they would), 4 points on your record for however many years puts you at alot higher risk if anything else should happen in the mean time.

 

[deputydawg]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

First off, I resent blaming the officer. Yes, I do say OFFICER not Butt Monkey. HE is doing his job the best he sees fit. <br />OK, that said, the correct following distance in most states is 3 seconds. That means when the rear of the vehicle ahead passes an object, you should be there 3 seconds later. <br />As my momma says, just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean it is right. Follow the rules even if everyone else is not.<br />The ticket is filled out correctly. All that is needed is your name and descriptors, vehicle description and information, location, time and date. The officer doesn't even need to sign your copy as long as the court copy is signed. Your signature is required to prove service of course. The court date must be on your copy, but any other information is not required. The judge signature line is for the courts use. Reguardless, clarical errors do not render a citation null as per supreme court rules. In one ruling they decided cops are after all human and can make small mistakes.<br />Now if you were not following a minimum of 3 seconds, about 1 1/2 car lengths at 65mph, then you deserve it, take the hit to your pride and pay up.<br />I would say from my experience that traffic court with a lawyer is a waste of lawyer fees. Them guys get over 100 an hour. It is up to the state to prove your guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". There is no intent required on this statute so no proof of intent. Even if it was an accident doing this, no intent required still means guilt. Same with speeding, broken speedometer is no excuse because no intent is required. BUT the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe the OFFICER was mistaken at the distance you were following. Go to court and listen to the evidence. See if he has a video. You do not have to prove you were not following too closely, the state must prove you WERE. Just go to court and say prove it. Ask what evidence there is against you. If all there is is the officers statement and report, then remember that for the end of the trial. DO NOT put the officer down in court like you have here, DO NOT try to make the officer look like a lying fool there are still a few judges people out there that respect officers and will take offense. Last thing you want is to make the judge mad.<br />Don't take the stand and make statements, this will open you to cross and you lose your right to be silent. Sit in on a few cases and see how they do it, then follow court proceedure. It is not like on TV. <br />At the end you will have the option to make a closing arguement. Just keep it simple. THEN is when you say to the court the burden of proof has not been met. Just keep it simple. Tell the court that there is no physical evidence of hopw close you were such as video. Ask the offier how he measured your following distance. If he says he just looked, bring this up at closing. Make a point that there is NO proof of how close you were in the way of measurement.<br />It is your right to appear in court. This can't be taken away or held against you. Chances are the prosecution will be so full with other cases they will be willing to throw this out when they hear you are fighting just to free the court schedule. <br />Bottom line, you probably were following too close and didn't realise it due to traffic and everything else. Why would an officer take time out to falsly accuse you of such a minor violation? I am sure he had other things he could have been doing and other people he could have been harrassing. If you think all we officers do is drive around picking people at random to falsly accuse, I invite you to ride along somne night with any one of them. Most have a ride along program. It will be an education I guarantee that!<br />Good luck with this case. I hope you can win it in court. Just remember you don't have to prove you weren't doing it, the state has to prove you were. Also where do you live that this fine would be so high? In Nebraska it is only $25.<br />Again good luck and try to see things from the butt monkeys point of view. But until then, show a little respect. <br />I also must wonder why posts on here with LESS offensive statements have been edited, but this is still here? I would be very upset to see my teenager read this and learn that an ADULT has so little respect for those that are trying hard to protect and serve. <br />ANyway, good luck to you I hope for the best. Let us know.

 

[ob]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

Duck......incoming...maybe.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />Proper following distance when I began driving was stated at 1 car length for each 10 mph of speed.

 

[aspeck]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

DD, Thanks for the well said statement from the ticketing side of the law. I know I appreciate hearing the law enforcement side.<br /><br />Personally, I have been fined a couple of times that I thought, and still do, were bogus. After cooling down a bit I decided to pay them and leave them be, Lord knows I was guilty of those offenses at other times, so even if I was innocent this time, it was still fair.<br /><br />Just another way of looking at it, I guess.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

Its all about safety. When he percieved that you were not operating the vehicle in a safe manner, he pulled you over. Think about this: From his perspective, he probably felt that if you were willing to follow too close with him right there, he could only imagine how you drive when no one is looking. Road rage is such a problem now-a-days that he very well may have done this to give you a wakeup call. <br /><br />His job is not to hand out tickets at his leisure, his job is to protect and serve. He is not doing his job if he does not pull you over. Also, the passing lane is so a vehicle can pass a slower vehicle that is not going the speed limit. If everyone is going the speed limit, then it does not matter what lane they are in. This sort of falls under the sense of entitlement we all feel we deserve lately. Common sense says if no cops are around, everybody should be in the right lane, and if the speeders want to kill themselves, let them. According to the law, you should not be passing vehicles that are going the speed limit anyway. You may want to bite the bullet, because you won't win in court unless the officer does not show. Good luck though...

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

DD, yeah, the fine is high, that's FL. No income taxes, they gotta get revenue somehow. <br />Also, folks, FL license "points" are a little different than most states. They assign a lot higher "point" values than most. While 4 points sounds high, it takes something like 24 points to lose your license. (I am doing this from memory 12 footer, so correct me if it has changed since 1998)<br />I am not an insurance underwriter, so I can not say how much, or if your rates would increase. Get insurance quotes online, and do it both ways, no violations and one violation. Or call you insurance agent & ask.<br />What county were you in?

 

[ob]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

I doubt if following too closely citation with a previous clean record would effect insurance premiums.Speeding or a collision would be another story.I could be wrong.

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

DD, good reply from the boys in blue. Wrong I know but I look on it like a game. I speed yes sorry but I do you guys try and catch me I try and get off if you do. I have got off on a clerical error but there was no video only officers word so I denied the incident happened and proved where the vehicle was on the date / time specified. A lawyer is well worth the money they know so many loopholes and how to present a case. You must be prepared to end up paying more than the fine but you do get an experience to chat to your friends in the bar.

 

[bubbakat]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

And if an officer doesn't show up in court they don't always throw it out. Thats only on TV.<br />They the judge , has a right to set it at a latter date. He will then issue a show cause on the officer to find out why he wasn't there.<br />I agree with DD you don't need a lawyer in small traffic court. I do know That some officers will get mad when you pass them and find something to cite you for. Sure they are out there to protect and serve but you have a certain percentage that will ticket you for a small infraction. DD if you will look in your dept. you will find at-least one of these. I try to be as fair as I can be but when I first started I was real gung ho.<br />Back on topic hell 12 er pay the ticket and forget it. What you are receiving compiled together will get you a hefty charge . One big bill from the lawyer and #3 because if he looses the case the judge will set the max in fines and court cost.<br />But of course this is only my opinion heck I ain't never been there.

 

[deputydawg]

Re: A "Moving Violation" question (or two)...

I also look to it as a game. Win some lose some. I only try to do what I am supposed to, be professional, and keep everyone safe out there. As Chief Deputy and training officer I am supervisor for all shifts. I train all of my men, and expect from them to be fair to everyone. If they start writing tickets for turn signals (which I have never done) they better always use theirs and better write everyone. The goal I challenge all my men with is that most stops leave with a smile. Most of mine, even after tickets will thank me and wait until they drive away to curse me. I will reduce speeds and such on tickets to help them out with the fine amounts, things like that. <br />I have had my share of tickets in my days. I will say I have earned each one of them! I have tried to argue my way out of them, I have tried to run from a few (that really hurt), but then I grew up. One thing I have nbever done was lied about it. <br />Anyway, I love my job, I don't love writing tickets but it needs done.<br />I would rather write one and make an enemy than peel someone off the highway and go notify family.