A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

[JB]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Good point, SW.<br /><br />If potential adversaries are certain they will lose, and that they wont like losing one bit, we would probably have fewer adversaries.<br /><br />You may notice that all terrorists except the Palestinians have kept their hands off Israel for some time now.<br /><br />Another thought about the Iraq thing. Was it a stupid move to take pictures?? Sure seems that way to me.

 

[Backlash]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

I don't often post in this forum but read it occasionally. I couldn't help but add my two cents worth this time. I spent over 30 years as a Marine, fighting in Vietnam & Desert Storm. I was involved in the capture of numerous VC prisoners in 'Nam and never "threw one out of a helicopter" nor did I ever see such a thing. I did hear a rumor of it once. Like so many other rumors it has been perpetuated. I was involved in the capture of hundreds of prisoners in Desert Storm and never saw any abuse there either. Believe me, those guys were glad to be "captured." <br />When I saw the pictures of abuse and read the investigation that was conducted by the Army concerning this incident I was both shocked and angered. This is NOT how the United States military is trained to handle prisoners of war, let alone detainees! I don't give a damn who says differently, it's just not right. <br />Backlash

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Yeah JB. My dad taught me when I was a kid that there are things that should never be written down, recorded, photographed etc. All that does is creat evidence, and evidence is what leads to trouble, not the activity......

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

On emore thing, if it were the American dragging the bodies of their fallen enemies around in streets of every combat action we get into, things would be going way different in this and every conflict America participated in. Those who can't stomach such things have NO idea what combat is like, what the objectives of combat are, or how any pi$$ing match is won.

 

[oddjob]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Thats torture in the photo? I thought the gal was just given them a physical... <br /><br />Seriously, whats questionable to me is why the photo and the smiles?

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Originally posted by oddjob:<br />Seriously, whats questionable to me is why the photo and the smiles?

Stupid kids taking their "combat photos" so they can show them off when they get home.<br /><br />Backlash, I applaud your service, 30 years in the corps is nothing to sneeze at. I too spent time in S. Arabia and Kuwait, and you are right most of those fellas were happy to give up. Some weren't though. And I did see a few cases of abuse--mostly beatings from Marines who were tired of being spat on by the RG or just being tired from not sleeping for three days. The fuse gets mighty short from combat fatigue. It's not the training that takes over, it's human nature.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

SW said; <br />"Real easy to sit here and act horrified when your not the ones being shot and blown up by these creeps."<br />irregardless, I still wouldn't murder, rape or<br />torture someone.... but that's just me.<br /><br />Matt has posted the absoulte best response in this<br />case; "it's just wrong"

 

[18rabbit]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Here is footage from an Apache helicopter engaging 3 Iraqis. They didn’t stand a chance. If you listen to the audio, there is absolutely no hesitation in pursuing a ‘take no prisoners’ policy. Caution, night vision imagery, but not for the weak stomached.<br /><br /> http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/apache_hit.mpg

 

[Carphunter]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

SW, you really confuse me at times. You preach about the Bible, and quote passages from the Bible, but you don't think abusing POW's or detainee's is wrong. <br />I would expect you, of all people here, to speak out in anger about how these people have been treated.<br /><br />My thoughts are, when on the battlefield fighting the enemy, you do what your training has taught you to do, and you get the job done. If by chance a POW is captured, he is no longer a threat, and should be treated with some dignity. It is a human life. <br /><br />I'm with Backlash on this one. America is better than that.<br />........and to quote Backlash, "Its just not right".<br /><br />We as Americans, should not stoop to their level.

 

[samagee]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

A POW is a threat. They are excess baggage that you will now have to look after, at the same time you are watching your back. Not to mention that they may now be nuetralized, but what happens later when you have to release them back into the public? I was really ticked off when I heard the American troops were letting Iraqi soldiers throw down uniforms and weapons and walk home. WALK HOME TO SCHOOLS AND MOSQUES STOCK PILED WITH WEAPONS IN WHICH TO SHOOT AMERICANS IN THE BACK WITH! Come one. Where is the intelegence in that move?<br /><br />No, they should not be rapped and murdered. Interogation is needed, and there is a line that should be drawn. However, war is a very nasty business. And yes I feel that it should be avoided if possible. There is so much that goes on, you can't expect people to not be humans in such a chaotic environment. The enemey is going to get treated bad no matter what side you find yourself on. Taking pictures is really stupid in my opinion. This isn't a field trip to slap someone in the face. This is a response to a REAL deadly opposition. <- Note I did not say threat. <br /><br />I know it seems I get carried away at times. But I can't just sit back and let someone have free oportunities to take shots at me, my family, my friends, and my fellow humans. They attacked because they are unable to engage in proper dialog. This says alot about them. They want us dead. Period. They have no politically correct tolerance speaches from their peers, telling them that they should accept the westerners. They have self proclaimed clerics saying "KILL THE AMERICANS". How much more plainly can this be said?<br /><br />Yes there are factions with in America that will now go on a witch hunt. This is really very bad for us all. We all know that those involved will have to be disciplined. However, the media does not need to have their nose in it. The media should show some respect and bow out of this one.

 

[oddjob]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

<br /><br />Now this is something to be outraged about! Aint nobody smilin here.

 

[ob]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Wish I hadn't seen that oddjob.<br /><br />This whole scenario reminds me a bit of the movie,"A Few Good Men" with a little twist.Were the GIs involved ordered to give a code red or did they take it upon themselves.If they were ordered,we may never get the complete story.Someone above mentioned it but it rings so true.War is as unperfect of a science as it gets.This whole fiasco is an isolated incident in the gigantic scheme of America being the leader in global humanitarian effort.I somehow get the feeling that our adversaries don't and will not ever acknowledge that fact,which is the real kick in the pants.America......damned if you do .....and damned if you don't.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

origonally posted by guage guy

Where is the Arab outrage over US non-combatants being burned, hacked, dragged through the streets and hung from bridges? Dang PC war

couldnt have said it better myself<br /><br />i didnt see any of the arab fighters appologizing about the pic that oddjob shows, about the mutilated bodies... but we have to appologize about making somebody get NAKED?!?!?!?!?!<br /><br />our weakness is that we are "politically correct" or at least try to portray that image, and they know this and they will use it to our disadvantage every second they can.<br /><br />we are so afraid to "kick *** and take names" without caution for fear that we might offend somebody..<br /><br />during the first bombing campaign of afganastan in 2001, we actually stopped and considered whether or not we should halt the bombing during "ramalluh"(spelling), the islamic holiday, cause we didnt wanna offend any islamists..<br /><br />we have turned into a bunch of pu$$ies. <br />i went through basic traing in the us army in 2002 and was appauled at how weak it was. we have lightened up soo much it makes me sick<br /><br />just my 2 cents!!!<br /><br />mike

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

As I said before, it is wrong no matter how we look at it, but...we are being treated like we are running an Aushwitz or Buchenwald, and that just isn't the case. I'm not even sure if the "POW's" we are talking about are afforded the rights under the Geneva accords because they are not of a uniformed force of a country we are at war with. I think it is just the media bowing to the Muslim world and creating a whole lot of (hopefully) isolated incidents.<br /><br />And as far as the President apologizing (I'm so glad he didn't say "I'm sorry"), I can't imagine it. Would FDR ever apologize to the Germans for bombing Dresdin repeatedly and killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians? Or would Truman ever apologize for bombing Hiroshima or Nagasaki? I think it would create a dangerous precedent.

 

[SlowlySinking]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Gentlemen, don't let this bother you, it's just election year rhetoric, JW is more interested in good vote getting public relations than setting the record straight, go to http://www.TheMemoryHole.com <br /><br />scroll down and click on<br />earlier material ...<br /><br />and take a look at the photos of the American Soldiers flag draped caskets and then the pictures of the murdered, mutilated, burned, and hung American citizens and ask yourself one question, when did the Iraq’s apologize???

 

[ob]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Any Iraqis that could and would publicly appologize for any inhumane acts that were performed by any anti-American regime would surely and swiftly have their throats cut.That's the problem with this surgical type of conflict.Iraq is an oppressed country.America just wants the bad guys.There's a lot of them.It ain't an easy scenario.We can't even get the gangs out of our own hoods.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

Gaugeguy says

Where is the Arab outrage over US non-combatants being burned, hacked, dragged through the streets and hung from bridges? Dang PC war

I'll give ya an Amen brother.

 

[rolmops]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

The greatest danger that can befall our forces,is being dragged down to the level of our enemies. America went to war to stop a madman who condoned these acts and worse. Let it be far from us to go down to their level.If we become what they were,then they have won the war.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

some of you make me sick. if you are not in the military or have never served, your comments don't even count. no matter what you think the military is about, no matter how much you read or watch on tv, you just don't know. we are held to a higher standard, and should be. our task requires it.<br /><br />here's some thoughts from an officer, someone who is responsible for leading troops into battle. if any of my men or women performed the acts those soldiers are accused of, i would do everything in my power to ensure they are prosecuted to the fullest extent as allowed by the ucmj. they would never serve in my military again.<br /><br />to those of you who find the acts repulsive, please rest assured that we leaders never condone this behavior. i made a commitment to the constitution and the american people to defend their freedoms, but torture and humilitation of the enemy is not part of what i do.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: A few thoughts about the latest scandal.

I think that was a good post mmmmmatt.