86 Sea Ray Restoration [Splashed Oct 2017]

[Goldie627]

We'll now you know how I felt on my first launch!! I will say it WILL get better!! I'm No Mel-a-new so no help here

Thanks woody! I have 1 or 2 more things up my sleeve before I break down and put it in the shop

 

[Goldie627]

I just installed a new stock coil, new stock points still will only crank not start, I kinda got a feeling my timing is wayyyy off, I'm alone so gonna try to stuff a paper towel in the #1 spark plug hole and crank it till it pops out, that should be tdc, just don't know if it's the up stroke or down stroke, then I'll see where the rotary points to on the cap, I'm at the boat now

 

[chevymaher]

If it jumped time. Pull the distributor and check the gear. I got the same engine in mine. No lower bushing in the distributor factory. So they get alot of side play and chew the gear up.

 

[Goldie627]

If it jumped time. Pull the distributor and check the gear. I got the same engine in mine. No lower bushing in the distributor factory. So they get alot of side play and chew the gear up.

Thanks chevy ill pull it and check the gear

 

[Goldie627]

im confused about TDC...

i have a momentary start switch.... so i

1.) sit in the back at the motor
2.) put my finger over the #1 spark plug hole
3.) crank/bump the motor till i feel a burst of air (how do i know when im on the compression stroke? will it be a series of bursts of air?
4.) continue to crank/bump until the pulley mark lines up with the timing pad (i over shoot the timing pad 0 every freaking time! what can i do?)
5.) i got the timing mark on the pulley close to the 0 on the pad so i pulled up the distributer and turned the rotor to point at the #1 spark plug

still have a no start condition with both conventional points and pertoninx electrconic ignition

 

[Goldie627]

i was using a paper towel in the #1 hole yikes!!!! that didnt sound right LOL

but if i put my finger on the hole i can kinda feel the pistion on the upstroke becasue of the excaping air as upposed to when the piston is going down its providing sucktion at the hole.... i hope that made since

i think my main problems are getting the pulley timing mark exactly on the pad 0 and knowing the compression stoke without taking off the valve cover

 

[Goldie627]

how can i turn the pulley without crank/bumping? so when i get tdc on the compression stroke without passing it

 

[Goldie627]

also, can the timing be so far out that its whats casing the no start?

 

[Goldie627]

i have a new carb, when i move the throttle linkage i can see gas comming into to the carb, also have new fuel pump so i m pretty sure im getting gas

#1 spark plug makes the timging light flash so i think im getting spark plus with the key on f i turn the distributer with the cap off i can here the points arking, next time im at the boat ill hold the plug wire tip near bear metal just to double check, but i think i have spark

 

[Goldie627]

im wondering.... since the front motor mount blocks the pulley from manually turning it, can i spin the prop by hand? will that turn the pulley?

 

[Goldie627]

say by some miricale i do get tdc with timing mark lined with timing tab and get the rotar pointed at # 1 plug..... with me having gas and spark whats next to check? or is that just an indication that timing is still not right?

 

[chevymaher]

Put your finger in the hole and bump it. It will forcibly Move your finger when it is coming to TDC. Move the harmonic balance to 0 on the scale.

Use a socket and ratchet on the bolt on the harmonic balance to turn it. This is TDC of the compression stroke, It should be pointing at number one plug now.

Yes timing being off will cause a no start. Question and issue is why did it get out of time. It has a metal timing gear on the cam so that isn't it. I am betting the distributor gear is worn.

Does the distributor gear teeth have knife edges instead of a square edge on them. That is wear.

 

[Goldie627]

Put your finger in the hole and bump it. It will forcibly Move your finger when it is coming to TDC. Move the harmonic balance to 0 on the scale.

Use a socket and ratchet on the bolt on the harmonic balance to turn it. This is TDC of the compression stroke, It should be pointing at number one plug now.

Yes timing being off will cause a no start. Question and issue is why did it get out of time. It has a metal timing gear on the cam so that isn't it. I am betting the distributor gear is worn.

Does the distributor gear teeth have knife edges instead of a square edge on them. That is wear.

thanks chevy! im going to the boat in the morning to take the distributer all the way out, ill snap some pics of the distributer gear teeth

boat didnt run for three years while restoring...

intitial startups didnt require me to take out the distributer only turn it to get timing at 6btdc but i think i had it at like 7ish or 8ish btdc becasue it ran smoother if i remeber correctly

had some top end sputtering

then motor completetly turned off, barely made it home

ever since was very hard to start wouldnt idle on points at all but on electronic ignition would idle at 1000rpms and still very hard to start

i tried to adjust timing for pertonix setup cuz it was adavnced wayyyyy out, never got it to start after that

i found tdc with the harmonic balancer close to 0 and the rotor was pointed away from #1

thats when i lifted up the distributer to point the rotar at number 1 plug thinking that would start and allow me to set timing

• new carb
• new fuel pump
• new fuel lines
• new fuel pickup for gas tank
• new cap, rotar, condencer, coil (external resitance), points
• new pertonix ignitor II, flame thrower II (internal resistence)
• new spark plugs
• new suppresion spark plug wires (required for when using pertonix setup)
• new ignition switch
• new batteries

have already tried bypassing the gas tank

electronic and conveintal ignition both setups will only crank not start

im not absoulely sure but i think my pulley is blocked by my front motormount, i honestly dont think i can get a ratchet in there but ill look again in the morning

 

[mr300z87]

HI I have been following along but since you were doing fiberglass work I could not add much as I have no experience. Now that you are working om mechanicals I have but more knowledge. To answer your question you asked a few post ago. Yes you can turn the engine by hand using the prop just put the drive in forward and turn the prop to get the balance mark lined up with the 0 TDC mark. My sting Ray that I owend a few years back was a 3.0L and what a pain that front mount make for the is kind of work. Try changing the belts!!!!! Also note that if you take all 4 plugs out it is much easier to tune by hand. One other thing DUMP the points and re install the pertronix. I installed in my 68 Plymouth about 20 years ago and never looked back. Good luck

 

[Corjen1]

Goldie, please make sure the throttle is in fact in neutral... a buddy of mine got his rear thoroughly kicked troubleshooting an ignition issue... turned out that he had a bit of slop in the throttle quadrant and the neutral safety was the culprit the whole time.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Great posts these last 2. Agree agree. If I had advice, take it step by step and make each thing exactly right. First get #1 TDC. Pull all the plugs and then rotate. If you own a compression gauge, stick it in #1. Spin the motor with the starter, compression will hit every other rotation. Time it and stop when it is near compression stroke and pull the gauge out and turn the balancer by hand until it is at 0. (you can turn the motor with a big screwdrier by pulling a couple of the pulley to balancer bolts and replacing with little bit longer ones. Stick your big screwdriver across those bolts sticking out and pry the motor around) Poke your distributor. Put just #1 plug in and attach wire plus timing light. Crank the motor with the start and set the Pertronix to what its manual calls for. If timing light is flashing, you got spark. Install all the plugs and make sure of order. (if I remember right it is 1-4-3-2, right?)

Next is check you have fuel. Pump the throttle while someone watches down the carb for two squirts of fuel.from the throttle accelerator pump. Tells you have fuel. Start it up - you can leave the throttle cable off the carburetor linkage if you want to manage it right at the carb manually. Once started tune further.

 

[Goldie627]

Thank you guys but I'm so.. so.. so.. embarrassed....... here's the scoop.

The day i took it out to float test it sputtered on top end and eventually cut out and i limped it back top the doc. Well.... I assumed it was my carb rebuild so i bought a new carb. after new carb still didnt start so i went for a new fuel pump still no start so i get new points condenser and new pertonix setup and still having troubles!

im pulling my hair out so in desperation i picked up the distributer and moved it becasue i thought i was 180 out.... at tcd the rotar was pointing oposite of #1 plug
but at the time the balancer and the timing tab were not perfectly lined up so me moving it actually made the problem worse! :facepalm:

after chasing my tail for three days i figured it all out....

the original problem was that the tab on the brand new points had broke! thus causing the spuddering then eventually the no start... BRAND NEW PIOINTS! early on i didnt even look at the points becasue they were new and i was so sure it was the carb rebuild

well... comes to find out the new carb was bad so all this tail chasing and trying all these different configurations of stuff was a witch hunt

so this is how i fixed it....

followed Dons guide on TDC very similar to what rick was explaining... i just did it a lil different

1. i took out all the spark plugs
2. i hooked up a remote start button (fat red wire on starter and yellow wire on starter solinoid)
3. i put my thumb over the #1 spark plug hole
4. i tap the start button (you can feel the air from the chamber sucking (downtroke) or blowing (up/compression stroke)
5. after a few rotations around you can pretty much tell how the compression stroke feels
6. after the big blast of air i was super close to the harmonic balancer and the timing tab being perfectly lined up
7. i put a big boy cresent wrench on the alternator pulley nut with my right hand
8. put my left hand on the pulley above the harmonic balancer
9. and then turned it very easlily the inch or so it had to go to line up (your belt has to be reasonibly tight to do this)
10. i removed the ditributer checked the teeth like chevy suggested (teeth looked very good)
11 i lined up the rotar with the #1 plug in the cap
12 i set the distributer down a few teeth early becasue as it slides down it will move to a new position slightly around from where you started
13 it took me two tries to get it lined up (rotar with #1 plug in cap)
14 now for the gap thats at the bottom, i was getting impatient wiggling the distributer to i took it out and used a screwdriver to stick in the hole and turn the oil thingy a smidge so the distributer would seat all the way down
15 i put the pertonix setup in and it started right up!!!
16 the carb wouldnt idle under 1100 and the air fuel mixture screw was useless
17 i put my old carb back on (the one i rebuit)
18 fired right up!!!! i checkd the timing and it was only a few degrees off :watermelon: i could have ran it at 6btdc but it was a lil too lean for my taste so i bumped it up to 8btdc
19 i set the air fuel mixture screw to 1.25 turns out, will fine tune it on the water
20 tach on dash says 600rpms, shop tach says 800rpms but its not racing its a nice easy idle and purrs like a kitten!!!

anybody who was on the fence about pertonix go ahead and get a setup!!! pertonix is the truth! it smoothed out my low end, never been this smooth

if anybody needs a step by step install for the pertonix let me know, i figured out all the lil stuff they dont tell you in the manual

thank you everybody!!! hopefully I will be going saturday for the 2nd test drive

this week will be installing my blue sea add a battery kit and my anchor winch, electronics 98% done, uphostery 98% done

this is truely a dream coming true:bounce:​

 

[Goldie627]

hey chevy teeth look good, i wish my teeth were in this good of shape! plus when you grab it there is no slop and when i had the timing light on it it wasnt jumping all over the place the mark was steady, thanks for the heads up though, i was frantic before i sorted out my problem, three freaking years of restoration and cant resolve a simple no start? i was beside myself, im just glad its over and i can move on with the old restorooni! :watermelon:

 

[Goldie627]

if i can give a tip or two to the noobs out there from a noob... dont assume anything!!!! stick with whats tried and tru

spark - fuel - combustion

and dont change multiple parts at once, doing one item at a time makes troubleshooting so much easier

and a brand new expensive pretty part doesn't necessarily mean that it works!!!

do as i say, not as i do :watermelon::boink:

this lil escapde costed me three days of wasted time i could have been doing other stuff to the boat

 

[chevymaher]

Good deal now you can enjoy your work.